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posted by martyb on Friday August 31 2018, @03:51PM   Printer-friendly
from the Garbage-in-garbage-in-garbage-in-and-more-garbage-in dept.

At the The Verge:

Today, The Verge is publishing an interim edition of Sarah Jeong's The Internet of Garbage, a book she first published in 2015 that has since gone out of print. It is a thorough and important look at the intractable problem of online harassment.

After a year on The Verge's staff as a senior writer, Sarah recently joined The New York Times Editorial Board to write about technology issues. The move kicked off a wave of outrage and controversy as a group of trolls selectively took Sarah's old tweets out of context to inaccurately claim that she is a racist. This prompted a further wave of unrelenting racist harassment directed at Sarah, a wave of coverage examining her tweets, and a final wave of coverage about the state of outrage generally. This is all deeply ironic because Sarah laid out exactly how these bad-faith tactics work in The Internet of Garbage.

[...] The Internet of Garbage provides an immediate and accessible look at how online harassment works, how it might be categorized and distinguished, and why the structure of the internet and the policies surrounding it are overwhelmed in fighting it. Sarah has long planned to publish an updated and expanded second edition, but in this particular moment, I am pleased that she's allowed us to publish this interim edition with a new preface.

In that new preface, Sarah stresses that her original text was written from a place of optimism. But the years since have not been kind to internet culture. She writes that the tactics of Gamergate, so clearly on display during the harassment campaign waged against her over the last few weeks, have "overtaken our national political and cultural conversations." That new culture is driven by the shape of the internet and the interactions it fosters. "We are all victims of fraud in the marketplace of ideas," she writes.

I hope everyone with a true and sincere interest in improving our online communities reads The Internet of Garbage and contends with the scope of the problem Sarah lays out in its pages. We are making the entire text of The Internet of Garbage 1.5 available for free as a PDF, ePub, and .mobi ebook file, and for the minimum allowed price of $.99 in the Amazon Kindle store. Below, we have excerpted Chapter 3, "Lessons from Copyright Law."


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  • (Score: 4, Insightful) by jmorris on Friday August 31 2018, @04:19PM (49 children)

    by jmorris (4844) on Friday August 31 2018, @04:19PM (#728796)

    No, we aren't going to live in a two caste society. This racist twat wrote dozens of tweets, any one of which would be more than sufficient to get you, me or anyone else cast off of any mainstream social media account had we said it about any group of people except the one she is racist against. She is right though, the media is using the same tropes from Gamergate that the gaming press used up to attacking the entire audience when they get called out. Yet she still not only has an account, she keeps the blue check and gets to sit on the editorial board of the NYT. She thinks she is immune to the rules she demands everyone else live by, exactly like the rest of the Progressive Elite. Oh. Hell. No.

    My side lacks the power (currently) to make the rules, but we will demand loudly that the rules which are handed down from the Progressive Elite in their commanding heights of the culture be applied to everyone, including themselves.

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  • (Score: 5, Informative) by ikanreed on Friday August 31 2018, @04:29PM (40 children)

    by ikanreed (3164) Subscriber Badge on Friday August 31 2018, @04:29PM (#728804) Journal

    Hey look, more of the same purposeful intellectual dishonesty.

    I'm gonna reply to each of you dishonest fucks who buy into any narrative that plays the race card against minorities, and point out each time that the shit you're most aggrieved about were direct parodies of actual racists who are now the ones calling for her to be fired [twitter.com].

    You side with nazis over shit you wouldn't give two fucks about if it was by a white person and sincere.

    • (Score: 1, Flamebait) by Sulla on Friday August 31 2018, @04:52PM (36 children)

      by Sulla (5173) on Friday August 31 2018, @04:52PM (#728816) Journal

      Scenario 1: White hiring manager has two identical candidates with one being black and one being white, he turns the black guy down specifically because he is black
      Scenario 2: Black hiring manager has two identical candidates with one being black and one being white, he turns the white guy down specifically because he is white

      Both are racist.

      --
      Ceterum censeo Sinae esse delendam
      • (Score: 5, Informative) by ikanreed on Friday August 31 2018, @05:05PM (24 children)

        by ikanreed (3164) Subscriber Badge on Friday August 31 2018, @05:05PM (#728828) Journal

        Thing that happens.
        Thing that doesn't happen.

        "Both are bad". yes, congratulations on your single standard. If it were relevant, you'd be doing okay.

        But it's not really relevant at all to what I'm saying you weirdo fuck.

        The case I'm highlighting went like this

        A: Black people are low IQ and should maybe be segregated (stated in way that makes it clear it's their actual belief)
        B: White people sunburn easily and should be buried underground(stated in a way that's clearly mocking A's racism)
        A: B IS RACIST FIRE HER FIRE HER FIRE HER
        You: I'm a genius and these are the same.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 31 2018, @05:14PM (17 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 31 2018, @05:14PM (#728838)

          A: Black people are low IQ and should maybe be segregated (stated in way that makes it clear it's their actual belief)
          B: White people sunburn easily and should be buried underground(stated in a way that's clearly mocking A's racism)
          A: B IS RACIST FIRE HER FIRE HER FIRE HER

          The claim made in A is only true in statistical aggregate and most of the calls for racial segregation appear to be coming from BLM. [nationalreview.com] After the civil rights struggles of the '60s, that is ripe for satire. Who is mocking who in your example? Why does the left with their silly ideas around "hate speech" and privilege not practice what they preach?

          • (Score: 3, Insightful) by ikanreed on Friday August 31 2018, @05:22PM (16 children)

            by ikanreed (3164) Subscriber Badge on Friday August 31 2018, @05:22PM (#728843) Journal

            I see we've moved on to the "his explicit racism is true, only racism I don't personally believe is bad." He clearly made a (explicitly genetic, explicitly racial) bioessentiallist argument for it.

            AND it's NOT "true". It is not established by anything resembling controlled experimental science. It's a thing racists jump to believe in after seeing large scale correlations, and immediately go "socioeconomic factors? whoneedsem, that's soft science, and I only believe in things that oversimplify the world to the point where I don't gotta think" Spearman's hypothesis has been repeatedly shown to be bunk. No attempt at finding an actual genetic(via SNPs or any other method I've looked at) correlation to IQ has succeeded.

            It's bunk. It's bunk and racists believe it.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 31 2018, @06:22PM (13 children)

              by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 31 2018, @06:22PM (#728875)

              jump to believe in after seeing large scale correlations

              Commonly called statistical facts. [worlddata.info]

              that's soft science

              Social sciences are soft science and have a habit of ignoring statistical based evidence when it doesn't fit the desired hypothesis.

              No attempt at finding an actual genetic(via SNPs or any other method I've looked at) correlation to IQ has succeeded.

              We're only just beginning to study RNA. [sciencedaily.com] You should read more. [newscientist.com]

              It's bunk. It's bunk and racists believe it.

              The statistics are across populations and that isn't racist. There's much to criticize in IQ tests but we look at other correlations and see they often indicate success. They also reliably correlate with cognitive impairment and we in Western society recognizes that some people cannot function in our society without assistance. Review the psychiatric IQ classifications [assessmentpsychology.com] and tell us where the prejudice is in identifying and providing social assistance to those in the retardation range. When it comes to sub-Saharan Africa, if only the West had sold them text-books instead of guns all these years.

              • (Score: 4, Informative) by ikanreed on Friday August 31 2018, @06:54PM (12 children)

                by ikanreed (3164) Subscriber Badge on Friday August 31 2018, @06:54PM (#728893) Journal

                "We're only just beginning to study RNA"

                What the ever loving fuck are you talking about. I've personally run software analyses 24 NovaSeq runs of tumor transcriptomes just this week. Correlating Single Nucleotide Polymorhpisms(SNPs) to IQ should be trivial if the eugenics/racist/bioessentialist assumptions about IQ are even remotely correct. Tens of thousands of them associated with regions in proteins involved in brain development have been examined in healthy populations, and no significant correlations have been found.

                You're not "right". You're just a racist with racist assumptions and bad opinions about science.

                • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 31 2018, @07:03PM (4 children)

                  by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 31 2018, @07:03PM (#728898)

                  I love the attitudes the morons you're arguing with show towards science.

                  Climate science = it's not true (and watts up with that?!) because the conclusions make me feel uncomfortable!

                  Science showing that the brain may be a gendered organ = it's not true (and brain imaging studies have no credibility!) because the conclusions make me feel uncomfortable! (Ok, I'm beating my dead hobby horse here. If humans can't stop shitting where they sleep--their very own perfect class M planet--there's no hope for them.)

                  Science fails to show any truth in racialist theories = science is important and more research is needed.

                  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 31 2018, @08:07PM (3 children)

                    by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 31 2018, @08:07PM (#728941)

                    Climate science = it's not true (and watts up with that?!) because the conclusions make me feel uncomfortable!

                    Never said that.

                    Science showing that the brain may be a gendered organ = it's not true

                    Never said that, only that it contradicts the claim that men and women are the same.

                    Science fails to show any truth in racialist theories = science is important and more research is needed.

                    What racial theories? It's not me conflating scientific racism with measurable differences between populations. Neither did i bring the subject up.

                    • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 01 2018, @02:15AM (2 children)

                      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 01 2018, @02:15AM (#729074)

                      only that it contradicts the claim that men and women are the same.

                      No shit, Sherlock! If men and women weren't different, why the fuck would anybody bother with gender transition?! If anybody says that men and women are the same, tell them to go to fucking hell! Especially if they're a feminist--oh men and women are the same when it's convenient for my Diane-worshipping cisfemale supremacist bullshit but different when that's convenient for my Diane-worshipping cisfemale supremacist bullshit. Gender is a social construct but only when it's convenient! Gender is biological when we get down to the implementation of gross violations of Title IX in public education and the Fourteenth Amendment elsewhere!!!

                      argh!

                      i'm gonna beat that dead hobby horse to death!

                      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 01 2018, @03:19PM (1 child)

                        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 01 2018, @03:19PM (#729247)

                        No shit, Sherlock! If men and women weren't different, why the fuck would anybody bother with gender transition?

                        Save your scorn for the "gender is a social construct" crowd.

                        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 01 2018, @04:38PM

                          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 01 2018, @04:38PM (#729259)

                          Ah. My sarcasm detector must have given a false positive. As long as you don't then go and say "Ok, gender is not a social construct, so that disproves that brain sex could possibly exist."

                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 31 2018, @07:04PM (3 children)

                  by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 31 2018, @07:04PM (#728899)

                  You're not "right". You're just a racist with racist assumptions and bad opinions about science.

                  Welcome to SN, where all the shitty trolls from /. found a home. Their vitriol has already driven away a good amount of the centrist user base. Not to mention the number of times users have bothered to dredge up facts only to have others toss them out and continue with their belief based reality.

                  le sigh, must the trolls ruin everything?

                  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by ikanreed on Friday August 31 2018, @07:08PM (2 children)

                    by ikanreed (3164) Subscriber Badge on Friday August 31 2018, @07:08PM (#728902) Journal

                    Ironically, I left slashdot because of the racist libertarians, and I figured a smaller community would have less room for them to hide.

                    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 31 2018, @08:13PM

                      by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 31 2018, @08:13PM (#728945)

                      True, there is less room for them to hide which makes them even more visible! They've driven off a lot of other users by brigading heavily. If they can't win on merit they'll "win" by spamming and shitposting until the dissenting voices are gone.

                      I don't want to see this site die as I believe in the original goals, but until the more moderate libertarians / conservatives push back against the trolls then those trolls will feel comfortable here. Clean up your house SN conservatives, just ACCEPT that you have a serious infestation of TERRIBLE people and start standing against them. The rest of us are just tired of the same old garbage defending propaganda and ignorance.

                    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 01 2018, @11:09PM

                      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 01 2018, @11:09PM (#729351)

                      Ironically, I left slashdot because of the racist libertarians, and I figured a smaller community would have less room for them to hide.

                      You honestly think Libertarians are racist? After our to and fro, I think you're racist! [youtube.com] Progressive outlets like Vox (who own the verge) are undeniably racist. [youtube.com] You doth protest too much, I think that you ikanreed are a racist!

                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 31 2018, @07:14PM (2 children)

                  by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 31 2018, @07:14PM (#728909)

                  What the ever loving fuck are you talking about.

                  The historical timeline of study.

                  Tens of thousands of them associated with regions in proteins involved in brain development have been examined in healthy populations, and no significant correlations have been found.

                  Now what the ever loving fuck are you talking about? I thought I told you to read more. [cell.com]

                  You're not "right". You're just a racist with racist assumptions and bad opinions about science.

                  Check you. You're seriously claiming that evolutionary differences do not manifest across different populations? Do you have this astounding revelation published in a peer reviewed paper?

                  • (Score: 1) by Sulla on Friday August 31 2018, @10:04PM (1 child)

                    by Sulla (5173) on Friday August 31 2018, @10:04PM (#728998) Journal

                    He also probably refuses to accept the differences in the types of medications available to people due to differences in blood types. When it comes to blood pressure there are drugs that can be given to people of European and East Asian decent that cannot and must not be given to people of African descent. First line drugs available to the first two groups can cause significant complications in the last group.

                    --
                    Ceterum censeo Sinae esse delendam
                    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 31 2018, @11:27PM

                      by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 31 2018, @11:27PM (#729024)

                      He also probably refuses to accept the differences in the types of medications available to people due to differences in blood types.

                      I doubt it, the guy probably has an IQ 2 standard deviations above the median although you wouldn't guess based on the constant "nazi" slurs. Tim Pool touches on these exact topics in a youtube video today. [youtube.com] Curious then that ikanreed (who should read more ;) brought IQ into the discussion here. As Bret Weinstein [wikipedia.org] has said, evolutionary biology is not politically correct and that's a big problem for those working in the field.

            • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 31 2018, @08:24PM (1 child)

              by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 31 2018, @08:24PM (#728950)

              It's true only mostly because of the circumstances that surround a given population. It has been documented that IQ scored in Texas rose more than 10 points simply due to de-worming campaigns in the early 1900s. Turns out parasites not good for intelligence? Also, look at how everyone was saying how east asians were "clearly not as intelligent" as europeans, back in the 1800s. And today, the IQ scores are higher in east asian populations than in the so called europeans.

              So anyway, something that is true doesn't mean there is correlation to the racist arguments. But it also doesn't mean that reality is not fair either.

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 31 2018, @09:57PM

                by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 31 2018, @09:57PM (#728992)

                Turns out parasites not good for intelligence?

                Indeed [observer.com]

                It's true only mostly because of the circumstances that surround a given population.

                Heritability studies have been done [nih.gov] (Not to be discounted [discovermagazine.com]) and cultural influences identified. [scientificamerican.com]

                Also, look at how everyone was saying how east asians were "clearly not as intelligent" as europeans, back in the 1800s. And today, the IQ scores are higher in east asian populations than in the so called europeans.

                19th Century scientific racism is discredited pseudoscience.

        • (Score: 1) by Sulla on Friday August 31 2018, @05:21PM (3 children)

          by Sulla (5173) on Friday August 31 2018, @05:21PM (#728842) Journal

          Never did I say to fire her, I think she should keep her job. Unlike leftists I believe in free speech and I can just ignore what she says. Any time you take an action against someone when the only basis of your judgement is the color of their skin you are being racist, regardless of what color your skin is or what color their skin is. You don't get to hate just because you are white, you don't get to hate just because you aren't white.

          I don't know enough about this specific case to care either way, I am just arguing that there is racism and that people of all colors commit it. Did Sarah? Don't know, don't care, but even if she didn't that doesn't mean she couldn't.

          --
          Ceterum censeo Sinae esse delendam
          • (Score: 0, Troll) by jmorris on Friday August 31 2018, @06:11PM (2 children)

            by jmorris (4844) on Friday August 31 2018, @06:11PM (#728873)

            I also believe in free speech, which is why she must be fired and I say that YOU are obligated to join the baying for her blood. Until they pay the same price they inflict on others, those who occupy the "commanding heights of the culture" and make the rules (like say those on the editorial board of the New York Times) they have no motivation to rediscover the benefits of supporting free speech. Your support for free speech is as unimportant as mine, her opinion decides the rules we live under and convincing her caste that it is good is what matters. Either that or casting her and her Progressive kind from the heights of the culture, something greatly to be desired but currently beyond our reach.

            IF YOU WOULD HAVE PEACE, KNOW WAR. IF YOU WOULD HAVE FREE SPEECH, CALL FOR BANHAMMERING THE ELITE WHO OPPOSE IT.

            • (Score: 2) by ikanreed on Friday August 31 2018, @07:17PM

              by ikanreed (3164) Subscriber Badge on Friday August 31 2018, @07:17PM (#728911) Journal

              "You know, we're just so so so unfair to people openly advocating for genocide"

              Free speech is something they'd take from everyone in a second if they had power.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 31 2018, @08:17PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 31 2018, @08:17PM (#728946)

              You are a moron trying to equate bad humor with actual Nazis. Take a deep breath and use your logic instead of your beliefs.

              "MUH OPPRESSION" is getting old, clean up "your" side if you want any sympathy. The only time you stand against racism is when it is against you and that makes you a piece of shit.

        • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 31 2018, @08:36PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 31 2018, @08:36PM (#728954)

          "Thing that doesn't happen."

          you're either blind/stupid or you lie for your ideology all the time. blacks do this anywhere they are (many times artificially) promoted into positions of power. look at any major city and watch the gov depts get completely taken over. maybe they keep a few boot licking token whites around, but that's about it.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 01 2018, @02:09AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 01 2018, @02:09AM (#729071)

          Thing that doesn't happen.

          Prove it.

      • (Score: 2) by jmorris on Friday August 31 2018, @05:07PM (2 children)

        by jmorris (4844) on Friday August 31 2018, @05:07PM (#728830)

        But one of those examples is legal and entirely socially acceptable. And it has to be called out, shamed and litigated until it either isn't acceptable anymore or both are. No more two caste society.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 31 2018, @09:04PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 31 2018, @09:04PM (#728963)

          But one of those examples is legal and entirely socially acceptable. And it has to be called out, shamed and litigated until it either isn't acceptable anymore or both are. No more two caste society.

          <sarc>WAAAAH!!!!! I can't use racially charged epithets in public because friends and family might shun me and my boss might fire me because he doesn't want my views associated with his company! Oh, the inhumanity of it all!</sarc>

          Frankly, as a white male, I am less than impressed with your "defense" of equality.

        • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday August 31 2018, @09:30PM

          by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Friday August 31 2018, @09:30PM (#728972) Journal

          J-Mo, to be honest it sounds to me like you're more worried about not being in the lower caste, rather than worried about caste-ism specifically. Sounds almost like you have a guilty conscience, except Madokami knows (yes, she does) you don't have a conscience to begin with...

          Karma's a bitch, isn't it?

          --
          I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
      • (Score: 1, Flamebait) by aristarchus on Friday August 31 2018, @06:22PM (7 children)

        by aristarchus (2645) on Friday August 31 2018, @06:22PM (#728876) Journal

        Poor white guy! Centuries of white privilege, all for naught!

        • (Score: 1) by Sulla on Friday August 31 2018, @06:56PM (6 children)

          by Sulla (5173) on Friday August 31 2018, @06:56PM (#728895) Journal

          Come Arist, I expect better of you. How am I wrong, is it okay to fire a guy just because he is white?

          As far as levels of privilege goes, a Mandarin or a Han is pretty high up there if we are just considering those in China (perhaps all of east asia). Is it okay to hate one of them if you are a Tibetan, and have it not called racism? Certainly the Tibetan is oppressed by them, is their level of privilege so high that lashing out against them is not racism?

          Without accepting that you cannot judge a person on the color of their skin, but by the content of their character, you can never fix the root issues.

          --
          Ceterum censeo Sinae esse delendam
          • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 31 2018, @07:13PM (5 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 31 2018, @07:13PM (#728907)

            hahahaha oh wow

            You fools are really out there, I guess I should feel sorry? you example ari replied to is totally "valid" I guess. I use quotes because technically yes, those are two examples of prejudice based on skin color.

            However in the real world there is an overwhelming occurrence of your first example and almost zero occurrence of the second. What does this mean? Your examples are just a way to escape the fact that #1 is a real problem while your white persecution complex is stupid and lame, the ultimate in first world problems.

            So much equality that the ethnic elite feel persecuted!

            Ok, enough poking fun. I'm sure your position is rooted in the Affirmative Action legislation. Yes that bit of law is racist, but it is trying to counter balance the systemic societal racism that really truly for-realsies exists.

            • (Score: 2) by aristarchus on Friday August 31 2018, @11:17PM (3 children)

              by aristarchus (2645) on Friday August 31 2018, @11:17PM (#729022) Journal

              Discussions of Affirmative Action as reverse racism against poor, put-upon whites are as relevant to anything as perfectly spherical, friction-less cows in a two-body problem involving torid bovines.

              • (Score: 2) by chromas on Saturday September 01 2018, @02:15AM (1 child)

                by chromas (34) Subscriber Badge on Saturday September 01 2018, @02:15AM (#729073) Journal

                First, we assume a spherical Nazi.

                • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 01 2018, @06:00AM

                  by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 01 2018, @06:00AM (#729116)

                  Unpossible! Nazis are always rightists, and being rightists, they favor symbols that are rectangular, like the swastika, because they are simple and easy to understand. It is much like Trumps positions on tariffs: other countries are disrepecting the US by trading with it. Shirley you can see the symmetry, when it is laid out in a powerpoint of only three slides, because after all, Trump falls asleep after three slides, and gets an erection, which is rather un-Precedential.

                  Ergo, no spherical Nazis. Unless they are on the Moon.

              • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 01 2018, @08:27AM

                by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 01 2018, @08:27AM (#729155)

                Discussions about whether race, gender, sexual orientation, and other features of identity politics are the primary divisions of society are not nearly as relevant in the present moment as a discussion about whether economic class is the primary division of society.

            • (Score: 2) by cubancigar11 on Monday September 03 2018, @08:37AM

              by cubancigar11 (330) on Monday September 03 2018, @08:37AM (#729791) Homepage Journal

              So, at which point of time would you think that enough has been done?

              Tell me, give me a real hard data based condition.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 31 2018, @09:58PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 31 2018, @09:58PM (#728993)

      Goodness me, racist fascists sure do swear a lot!

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 01 2018, @08:29AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 01 2018, @08:29AM (#729156)

        Thus demonstrating that your whole disingenuous purpose was nothing but trolling. The mistake was not dismissing you as a crazy or a crank.

    • (Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday September 01 2018, @09:46AM

      by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Saturday September 01 2018, @09:46AM (#729180) Journal

      I'm gonna reply to each of you dishonest fucks who buy into any narrative that plays the race card against minorities, and point out each time that the shit you're most aggrieved about were direct parodies of actual racists who are now the ones calling for her to be fired

      Since when has parody been a valid excuse? And glancing at the tweets in question, I read

      [Angus Johnson] Sullivan wrote a piece today attacking Jeong as a racist. One of the tweets he cited was a parody of something racist he wrote.

      Somehow we've gone from one parody to casting all of the tweets as parodies.

  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Thexalon on Friday August 31 2018, @05:39PM (6 children)

    by Thexalon (636) on Friday August 31 2018, @05:39PM (#728852)

    No, we aren't going to live in a two caste society.

    Right now, we live in a society with a bunch of castes, more than 2, and lots of people who believe that is as it should be. Younger "old money" white dudes are basically in the top tier, regardless of what they do. The bottom tier, also regardless of what they do, is likely to be older poor black women. And there are lots of grades in between for various combinations of these factors. Some effects of being in a lower caste:
    1. It's harder to get an education when you're young. For instance, a student that needs financial aid to go to college is held to a higher standard than a student who can pay full price both before and after admission, and will typically have to hold down a job while in school as opposed to focusing entirely on studying.
    2. Being in a lower caste will hurt your ability to get a job. They've done experiments where they've sent out resumes that are identical except for the names, and the names that sound like they're white people get more interviews.
    3. Once you get a job, you'll get paid less for that work if you're in a lower caste than your higher-caste colleagues.
    4. Insurance is more expensive if you're in a lower caste. That's health insurance, car insurance, homeowners/renters insurance, etc.
    5. Housing options are more limited if you're lower caste. A lot of landlords won't rent to you based on caste, and banks will try to avoid giving you a mortgage if you're lower caste. Housing is worse in every respect and more expensive because of this.
    6. Larger purchases like appliances and cars are more expensive, because lower caste folks usually have to buy these things on credit, and they'll get higher interest rates making those loans more expensive.
    7. You can't even buy the same kinds of things as higher-caste people if you're lower-caste without being hassled. For example, actor Daniel Radcliffe, who has loads of Harry Potter money lying around, tried to buy some top-tier artwork and found he couldn't because he hadn't grown up in the world of art collectors.
    8. If you have to interact with the police and court systems, your caste will have a giant effect on how you are treated. Really low-caste people sometimes get killed by police even if they've committed no crime whatsoever, and most of the time the police are not punished in any way for this. Really high-caste people sometimes get no jail time and sometimes no punishment at all for serious crimes including murder and rape, even if it's proven beyond any doubt that they committed said crime.

    And the strongest example I can think of as to the caste system in operation: 2 out of the last 3 presidents are by all appearances complete screw-ups of human beings, with drug problems, alcohol problems, an inability to conduct business without bailouts from suspect sources, criminal records, and draft-dodging, but got to the top of politics in no small part because they were born into wealth and power. Meanwhile, a substantial number of people with 4-year college degrees are working at McDonald's and other fast food jobs, in large part because they were born into poverty and were blocked by the caste system from getting jobs that actually used their qualifications. It's not impossible to overcome the caste system, but don't think for a minute it isn't there.

    And this caste system is detrimental to society as a whole, because it means that idiot screw-up children of high-caste people end up in charge of things they have no business running, while brilliant disciplined children of low-caste people often end up letting their talents go to waste flipping burgers.

    --
    The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
    • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 31 2018, @07:10PM (4 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 31 2018, @07:10PM (#728905)

      Not disagreeing per se. Just kind of taking a "first derivative." Most of that comes down to economic class. If we could pursue socialist/progressive policies such as medicare for all and restoring welfare/food stamps/etc, taxing the 1% the way we used to, the rough places of injustice would be transformed into a smooth plane of equality of opportunity, to paraphrase a great man.

      My gripe is that identity politics isn't going to do anything on its own. We must pursue socialist policies and programs if we hope to do anything tangible about these injustices.

      • (Score: 4, Insightful) by jmorris on Friday August 31 2018, @07:46PM (2 children)

        by jmorris (4844) on Friday August 31 2018, @07:46PM (#728926)

        Correct. We would all be equally poor and desperate. Until you can point to a success story somewhere I'm going to keep looking at the mass graves Socialism has left everywhere and conclude it is a bad idea. If you really want to live like that, Venezuela is waiting for you. And don't bring up Europe's Socialism Lite because it is currently collapsing too. Massive crime, suicidal birth rates, little hope for the future except from the rapidly rising reactionary parties seeking to cast it all out.

        • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 31 2018, @08:19PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 31 2018, @08:19PM (#728948)

          Well since you're an idiot that doesn't even understand what Socialism is I don't think anyone is going to lose sleep over your lack of support.

          Dumbass is as dumbass says.

        • (Score: 2) by Thexalon on Saturday September 01 2018, @03:14PM

          by Thexalon (636) on Saturday September 01 2018, @03:14PM (#729246)

          Correct. We would all be equally poor and desperate.

          US GDP: $18 trillion. US population: ~330 million (75 million children, 255 million adults). US poverty line: $12,500 per adult, $4,500 per child. Cost to keep all people above poverty line: ~$4.5 trillion, or about 25% of GDP. Which means that there's plenty to go around or invest in larger projects after you cover keeping everybody alive.

          Venezuela GDP: $370 billion. Venezuela population: ~29 million (10 million children, 19 million adults). Venezuela poverty line: ~$6000 per adult, $1500 per child. Cost to keep all adults above the poverty line: $140 billion, or closer to 40% of GDP. Which is why there's a problem: Venezuela can either keep its people alive, or have lots left over to invest in projects that would make them a wealthier country on the whole (e.g. building better roads), but not both. And unlike the US, the Venezuelan GDP has been shrinking, largely because its #1 export product, oil, has been dropping in price dramatically, which means they were probably screwed no matter what they did.

          But Venezuelans are not all equally desperate, either, not even close: The people who were rich before Maduro are mostly still rich, and the people who were dirt-poor in Venezuela are also still mostly dirt poor.

          --
          The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
      • (Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday September 01 2018, @09:53AM

        by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Saturday September 01 2018, @09:53AM (#729183) Journal

        taxing the 1% the way we used to

        We never taxed the 1% "the way we used to". There were so many tax loopholes that the 1% paid a little more tax than they do today.

        As to "economic class", some people will always been incompetent, ignorant of economics, disinterested in wealth accumulation, and/or with a variety of personal flaws that happen to make them poor. Socialist policies won't fix most of that.

    • (Score: 2, Insightful) by jmorris on Saturday September 01 2018, @07:21AM

      by jmorris (4844) on Saturday September 01 2018, @07:21AM (#729139)

      Just about everything in that wall of text is BS. Time being finite I'll take a few at random and have a go at em.

      1. It's harder to get an education when you're young. For instance, a student that needs financial aid to go to college is held to a higher standard than a student who can pay full price both before and after admission, and will typically have to hold down a job while in school as opposed to focusing entirely on studying.

      Welcome to the real world, snowflake. If you have good grades and are willing to go to an in-state university it is almost always a viable goal. Having a job while going to college used to be a routine occurrence for anyone not born with a silver spoon in their mouth. And if your grades suck, perhaps college is a bad idea anyway. Learn a profitable trade and start working after a year, skip three years of accumulating dept toward a degree you had to settle for because it was a subject you wouldn't instantly flunk but has no real world uses.

      2. Being in a lower caste will hurt your ability to get a job. They've done experiments where they've sent out resumes that are identical except for the names, and the names that sound like they're white people get more interviews.

      That isn't lower caste, that is a warning sign that your parents were idiots or making a political point. Either way it is highly inheritable (genetics or nurture) and a warning to avoid hiring a problem. Best advice to give Laqueffa is to to change the stupid name instead of wallowing in resentment the rest of her life about how "unfair" life is. Just being a minority is a plus these days, if one is competent at something, everybody has a quota to fill and would really like to find quality people to fill the slots instead of carrying useless deadwood to keep HR and the governement happy. You see White people trying to be "trans-black" but not so many trying to pass as White anymore.

      7. You can't even buy the same kinds of things as higher-caste people if you're lower-caste without being hassled. For example, actor Daniel Radcliffe, who has loads of Harry Potter money lying around, tried to buy some top-tier artwork and found he couldn't because he hadn't grown up in the world of art collectors.

      Citation needed on that one. Mr. Radcliff isn't some orphan a producer turned up, both of his parents are in the media industry and were themselves child actors. Not to mention being Jewish, which usually opens most doors in the upper levels of society; both here and in England.

      8. If you have to interact with the police and court systems, your caste will have a giant effect on how you are treated. Really low-caste people sometimes get killed by police even if they've committed no crime whatsoever..

      Assuming you are again mixing race and caste and repeating the popular myth that cops kill blacks. The numbers tell an opposite story. Your odds of death by cop are worse if one is a white criminal. If one isn't a criminal low life the odds of surviving an encounter with law enforcement are good regardless. The FBI on the other hand.... Police are very reluctant to shoot black perps because they know it has a high chance of ending their career in law enforcement.

      really high-caste people sometimes get no jail time and sometimes no punishment at all for serious crimes

      This is of course true. A good example would be Hillary Clinton. More felonies than space permits listing. Mr. Trump campaigned on "Lock her up!" and yet she remains unjailable. Trump might joke about shooting someone on 5th Ave, but we all know the Clintons actually DO kill people who piss them off.

  • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 31 2018, @10:39PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 31 2018, @10:39PM (#729009)

    Give her a break. My granny says "if a racist twat njigger has enough gumption to get a college degree, she can work in my kitchen any day."