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posted by mrpg on Wednesday September 05 2018, @11:33PM   Printer-friendly
from the corporations-are-people-too dept.

DannyB chased by a bunch of wild rabid kangaroos writes . . .

Bernie Sanders introduces 'Stop BEZOS' bill to tax Amazon for underpaying workers

Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT) and Rep. Ro Khanna (D-CA) have introduced a bill that would tax companies like Amazon and Walmart for the cost of employees' food stamps and other public assistance. Sanders' Stop Bad Employers by Zeroing Out Subsidies Act (abbreviated "Stop BEZOS") . . . would institute a 100 percent tax on government benefits that are granted to workers at large companies.

The bill's text characterizes this as a "corporate welfare tax," and it would apply to corporations with 500 or more employees. If workers are receiving government aid through the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP, formerly known as food stamps), national school lunch and breakfast programs, Section 8 housing subsidies, or Medicaid, employers will be taxed for the total cost of those benefits. The bill applies to full-time and part-time employees, as well as independent contractors that are de facto company employees.

Sanders announced his plans for the proposal last month. He emphasized today that "this discussion is not just about Amazon and [Amazon CEO] Jeff Bezos." But as the bill's name would suggest, he's been particularly critical of Amazon and Bezos who became the richest person in the world (and modern history) last year. "The taxpayers in this country should not be subsidizing a guy who's worth $150 billion, whose wealth is increasing by $260 million every single day," [ . . . rest omitted . . . ]

Food stamps, School Lunch, Medicaid, great . . . but what about employees who must shop at Walmart?


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  • (Score: 0, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 06 2018, @01:02AM (30 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 06 2018, @01:02AM (#731063)

    I live very well on below minimum wage.

    It's not how much you make, but how much you spend and how well you can manage money. Sure I don't live in CA, but I can, and do, visit any time I want.

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  • (Score: 3, Informative) by bob_super on Thursday September 06 2018, @01:06AM (1 child)

    by bob_super (1357) on Thursday September 06 2018, @01:06AM (#731066)

    AC has atypical anecdotal experience. News at 11.

    Care to share more details about your unusual situation ?

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 06 2018, @03:21AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 06 2018, @03:21AM (#731134)

      he/she must be a trustafarian

  • (Score: 2) by bobthecimmerian on Thursday September 06 2018, @01:35AM (15 children)

    by bobthecimmerian (6834) on Thursday September 06 2018, @01:35AM (#731079)

    You cover your own housing, food, and medical benefits on below minimum wage? And are saving up for a good retirement? Because even if Social Security still exists in a few decades if you make less than minimum wage now you'll be collecting the inflation-adjusted equivalent of maybe $1,000 per month then.

    Really?

    • (Score: 1, Insightful) by khallow on Thursday September 06 2018, @05:29AM (14 children)

      by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday September 06 2018, @05:29AM (#731176) Journal

      Because even if Social Security still exists in a few decades if you make less than minimum wage now you'll be collecting the inflation-adjusted equivalent of maybe $1,000 per month then.

      Social Security was first and foremost a scheme for transferring money from working age people to the federal government general fund (and secondarily old people). As a substitute for investment, it's an awful idea. I imagine anyone with half a brain isn't counting on Social Security to shoulder the burden.

      You cover your own housing, food, and medical benefits on below minimum wage?

      Spending control does mean that he's probably not living in a mansion, dining on caviar, and picking up elective health care on a Cadillac plan.

      And are saving up for a good retirement?

      What would that be? That strikes me a lot like the marketing for breakfast cereals. There is a too specific idea of what a good retirement is.

      • (Score: 3, Funny) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday September 06 2018, @10:35AM

        by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Thursday September 06 2018, @10:35AM (#731235) Homepage Journal

        A little boat, something to pull it, fishing gear, and most anywhere with air conditioning would do me fine. Wait, I already have all that... Did I retire and not notice?

        --
        My rights don't end where your fear begins.
      • (Score: 2) by bobthecimmerian on Thursday September 06 2018, @01:11PM (12 children)

        by bobthecimmerian (6834) on Thursday September 06 2018, @01:11PM (#731280)

        Tell me how someone can afford a tiny apartment, utilities, food, and the cheapest health insurance program you can imagine on minimum wage. Cadillac? Really?

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 06 2018, @02:34PM (2 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 06 2018, @02:34PM (#731324)

          He is single and has no kids.

          • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Thursday September 06 2018, @06:49PM

            by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Thursday September 06 2018, @06:49PM (#731457) Journal

            maybe polygamous, leader of a compound, the kids bring in extra outside money.

            --
            People today are educated enough to repeat what they are taught but not to question what they are taught.
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 06 2018, @08:11PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 06 2018, @08:11PM (#731490)

            Sounds like a good idea if one is making minimum wage: Don't have kids you can't afford.

            Being single or not, though, does not matter, since the second person could work as well.

        • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday September 06 2018, @04:44PM (3 children)

          by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Thursday September 06 2018, @04:44PM (#731392) Homepage Journal

          Look into real estate an hour away from the nearest major city. You'll see how.

          --
          My rights don't end where your fear begins.
          • (Score: 2) by bobthecimmerian on Thursday September 06 2018, @11:52PM (2 children)

            by bobthecimmerian (6834) on Thursday September 06 2018, @11:52PM (#731568)

            I'm an hour outside of Philadelphia and you can't buy a dog house for less than $150,000. In the town where I grew up, two hours from the closest major city and with terrible job prospects, the average house price is in the $60,000 range and a one bedroom apartment is $500 per month - which is still crazy hard to afford on minimum wage.

            • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Friday September 07 2018, @02:28AM

              by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Friday September 07 2018, @02:28AM (#731609) Homepage Journal

              Must be a Pennsylvania thing. Try somewhere with more land or less people. TR is currently trying and failing to sell his three bedroom house back in OK for less than $60K. Granted, the neighbors who keep piles of random junk and busted-ass furniture in the yard next door might have something to do with that but still.

              --
              My rights don't end where your fear begins.
            • (Score: 2) by urza9814 on Friday September 07 2018, @05:18PM

              by urza9814 (3954) on Friday September 07 2018, @05:18PM (#731843) Journal

              Yup, my first apartment was around 3 hours from the nearest city (Pittsburgh). $1000/month for half of a basement. Two bedrooms and a kitchen. Then again, three years later I found a nicer apartment (only one bedroom though) which was cheaper ($900/mo) and within walking distance of downtown Providence., and closer to Boston than that first place was to Pittsburgh. Proximity to a major city is hardly the only factor that matters here.

        • (Score: 1) by khallow on Friday September 07 2018, @03:27AM (4 children)

          by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Friday September 07 2018, @03:27AM (#731625) Journal

          Tell me how someone can afford a tiny apartment, utilities, food, and the cheapest health insurance program you can imagine on minimum wage.

          Ok. You ask how? They earn money at minimum wage and spend a portion of it on those items. I'll note that the entire list of items you mentioned cost me (and my coworkers) about $700 per month ($450 for room and board, $250 for insurance, utilities are free). The entire list.

          • (Score: 2) by bobthecimmerian on Saturday September 08 2018, @07:13PM (3 children)

            by bobthecimmerian (6834) on Saturday September 08 2018, @07:13PM (#732280)

            And food? And does that health insurance have a deductible? Can you meet the deductible if you develop a serious illness or fall down stairs or something? How do you get to work, walking?

            • (Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday September 09 2018, @12:05AM (2 children)

              by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Sunday September 09 2018, @12:05AM (#732341) Journal

              And food?

              Yes.

              And does that health insurance have a deductible?

              Yes and I can meet it.

              How do you get to work, walking?

              Yes. I have a car, but I don't need to have one.

              People don't have to make the same choices or the same sacrifices I choose to make. But if you're in the US, and think you're stuck in an awful job, with no chance of escape for the next few decades, then you're doing life wrong. Learn to play the game.

              • (Score: 2) by bobthecimmerian on Monday September 10 2018, @05:50PM (1 child)

                by bobthecimmerian (6834) on Monday September 10 2018, @05:50PM (#732841)

                How can you afford your car and car insurance and fuel and maintenance? I still find your scenario absurd. What state? What kind of insurance policy do you have - is it through work? I'd seriously like an itemized breakdown of your budget, I find your numbers ludicrous.

                • (Score: 1) by khallow on Monday September 10 2018, @08:38PM

                  by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Monday September 10 2018, @08:38PM (#732909) Journal

                  How can you afford your car and car insurance and fuel and maintenance?

                  I bought the car used for about a third to quarter its original price (ten year old Nissan Versa, two years ago). Insurance, fuel, and maintenance just haven't been significant costs. I also have a cheap cell phone.

                  I'd seriously like an itemized breakdown of your budget, I find your numbers ludicrous.

                  You've already got the great majority. I make more than minimum wage, but food, rent (and all utilities), and health insurance all is $700 per month. That's the key to it. With 180 hours of work at $7.25 and a quarter taken off for fed taxes (after the cost of room and board is taken out, I might add) and such, I would still be making $1000 per month roughly. $300 per month would leave more than enough for the remaining two big items in my budget, car and phone.

                  It's not be great income at minimum wage, but I could still save money. And the business I'm in has a lot of turnover. It's not difficult for someone who is willing to work hard to get positions that pay significantly above minimum wage. I've seen people go from entry level (currently pays I think $8.50 per hour for lowest hourly positions to $7.25 per hour for corresponding tipped position) to an assistant manager position over the course of a summer (it's seasonal work) or move to a better paying position.

                  While you probably have it figured out, I'm working seasonally in the tourism industry with a summer and winter season, usually about 9 months of work and 3 months downtime. But the company I'm with does have jobs at locations that are year round, should that ever become important to me.

                  The point of this exercise from my angle is not that everyone can or wants to work my particular niche market, but rather that these sorts of opportunities wouldn't exist in the first place, if the US really had that many desperate people looking for work. We get plenty of people each season who either never show or up and leave because they find something better elsewhere. The narrative is bogus.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 06 2018, @04:08AM (11 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 06 2018, @04:08AM (#731153)

    Around here rent of only $800 is hard to find. At minimum wage, you're talking rent alone taking up nearly half your paycheck. And that's before you pay utilities, probably another 100 a month minimum, buy food or pay for a bus pass.
    Perhaps where you live, things are cheap, but not where most people love.

      By the end of the month, you're not going to have much over if you do anything discretionary, you'll likely be in the red.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 06 2018, @04:48AM (5 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 06 2018, @04:48AM (#731170)

      That's why you pay rent for your mom's basement. It's well below $800.

      • (Score: 2, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 06 2018, @05:45AM (4 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 06 2018, @05:45AM (#731182)

        No, that's why you don't live in areas with insanely high costs of living like an idiot.

        • (Score: 4, Informative) by requerdanos on Thursday September 06 2018, @01:11PM (3 children)

          by requerdanos (5997) Subscriber Badge on Thursday September 06 2018, @01:11PM (#731279) Journal

          don't live in areas with insanely high costs of living

          Judging by your definition there, it may be that no such areas exist in the United States. The below referenced study claims that except for a few localities with artificially high minimum wage, there's nowhere in the U.S. where rent isn't "insanely high" (30% or less of minimum wage income). The lack of affordable housing is reflected in the fact that the difference between areas is the minimum wage, not the presence or absence of "high cost of living" overall...

          Affordable Housing Crisis: Minimum wage doesn’t cover the rent anywhere in the U.S. [brunswickhomeless.com]

          An excerpt:

          [Even a $15 an hour minimum wage wouldn’t help in the] overwhelming majority of states, the coalition found. Nationally, someone would need to make $17.90 an hour to rent a modest one-bedroom or $22.10 an hour to cover a two-bedroom place.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 06 2018, @08:55PM (2 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 06 2018, @08:55PM (#731503)

            You can't deny that some areas of the country have a higher cost of living than other areas. That is just a fact. Knowing that, try to avoid the areas with the highest cost of living, especially if one is going to need to work a minimum wage job.

            • (Score: 2) by requerdanos on Friday September 07 2018, @01:13AM (1 child)

              by requerdanos (5997) Subscriber Badge on Friday September 07 2018, @01:13AM (#731597) Journal

              You can't deny that some areas of the country have a higher cost of living than other areas.

              I don't see why not. People have denied things just as true and continue to do so. Whether it can be denied by a denier doesn't have much to do with it.

              try to avoid the areas with the highest cost of living, especially if one is going to need to work a minimum wage job.

              I understand your recommendation, and appreciate the concern. There are, however, many reasons that someone might live in a particular area (couldn't get a job in the low-cost area but got one in the high-cost area, would love to live in the low-cost area but here in the high-cost area is where my friend/family lives who I depend on for a ride, etc.).

              "AC with shallow vision just saying let them move to a low cost area and eat cake" not only isn't a solution, it's unhelpful and breathtakingly shortsighted besides. People who need help and hear you say that will move away from you because they are intelligent and insightful. You, witnessing this, might then respond "see? they, not listening to my brilliance, obviously don't want help"...

              All other things being equal, costs are lower where costs are lower? Sure, that's listed under "tautology." But all other things generally aren't equal.

              • (Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday September 09 2018, @12:11AM

                by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Sunday September 09 2018, @12:11AM (#732342) Journal

                I understand your recommendation, and appreciate the concern. There are, however, many reasons that someone might live in a particular area (couldn't get a job in the low-cost area but got one in the high-cost area, would love to live in the low-cost area but here in the high-cost area is where my friend/family lives who I depend on for a ride, etc.).

                Let us note that this is a classic problem of a high minimum wage. One would rather live in the low cost areas, but the jobs aren't there any more. Just look at Puerto Rico for an example. While some costs are pretty high, in general most of it is fairly cheap due to low property values. It has plenty of other things wrong with it, but it doesn't help that the jobs aren't there, but are there in places like New York City or Miami, which happen to be higher cost as well.

    • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday September 06 2018, @10:38AM (4 children)

      by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Thursday September 06 2018, @10:38AM (#731237) Homepage Journal

      Erm... The three bedroom house I'm living in now is less than that. The 4K+ square foot church The Roomie just bought to remodel into a house is as well. Get out of major cities if you don't want all your money going to rent.

      --
      My rights don't end where your fear begins.
      • (Score: 5, Insightful) by tangomargarine on Thursday September 06 2018, @02:55PM (3 children)

        by tangomargarine (667) on Thursday September 06 2018, @02:55PM (#731331)

        Erm... The three bedroom house I'm living in now is less than that.

        Yes, but you had to acquire that house. How realistic is this for people living hand-to-mouth, without saddling themselves with a bunch of debt?

        Such a "let them eat cake" statement

        --
        "Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
        • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday September 06 2018, @04:46PM (2 children)

          by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Thursday September 06 2018, @04:46PM (#731395) Homepage Journal

          It didn't take much acquiring. First and last month's rent plus a smaller than one month's rent security deposit. You know, like everyone in the US who has a place to live had to do.

          --
          My rights don't end where your fear begins.
          • (Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Thursday September 06 2018, @06:55PM (1 child)

            by tangomargarine (667) on Thursday September 06 2018, @06:55PM (#731462)

            Your post is ambiguous...are you talking about renting, or owning?

            Erm... The three bedroom house I'm living in now is less than that. The 4K+ square foot church The Roomie just bought to remodel into a house is as well.

            would seem to indicate owning, but

            Get out of major cities if you don't want all your money going to rent.

            and

            First and last month's rent plus a smaller than one month's rent security deposit

            is talking about rent.

            --
            "Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
            • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday September 06 2018, @07:30PM

              by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Thursday September 06 2018, @07:30PM (#731479) Homepage Journal

              The place I'm in now is a rental. The place TR just bought is an ownership thing. The reason they got lumped together is they're both less than $800/month for a good sized place in a nice neighborhood. For that matter, TR is renting his three bedroom house back in OK for a lot less than $800/month.

              --
              My rights don't end where your fear begins.