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Pipe pressure before gas explosions was 12 times too high
The pressure in natural gas pipelines prior to a series of explosions and fires in Massachusetts last week was 12 times higher than it should have been, according to a letter from the state's U.S. senators to executives of the utility in charge of the pipelines.
Democratic U.S. Sens. Elizabeth Warren and Edward Markey sent the letter Monday seeking answers about the explosions from the heads of Columbia Gas, the company that serves the communities of Lawrence, Andover and North Andover, and NiSource, the parent company of Columbia Gas.
"The federal Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration has reported that the pressure in the Columbia Gas system should have been around 0.5 pounds per square inch (PSI), but readings in the area reached at least 6 PSI — twelve times higher than the system was intended to hold," the letter said.
The pressure spike registered in a Columbia Gas control room in Ohio, the senators said in the letter, which requests a reply by Wednesday.
See also: Columbia Gas pledges $10M toward relief efforts in Lawrence, Andover, North Andover
Previously: 60-80 Homes Burn; Gas Line "Incident" in Northern Massachusetts
(Score: 0, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 18 2018, @10:03PM (65 children)
"Democratic U.S. Sens. Elizabeth Warren and Edward Markey sent the letter Monday seeking answers..."
WTF business is it of theirs? Oh, elections coming up.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by bzipitidoo on Tuesday September 18 2018, @10:33PM (18 children)
No, the real WTF is that this accident happened.
We've been using gas pipelines for decades. We know how to operate them safely. While the explosion could be the consequence of a novel situation or novel combination of factors, a genuine accident, I'd put money on it being negligence and greed. Someone got stupid and reckless to save a little money. Put untrained and underpaid minions on the job, or tried to cut corners on maintenance.
The oil industry is notorious for refusing to properly maintain their pipelines. This includes possibly their highest profile one, the famous Alaska Pipeline. It's why there's so much resistance to that Keystone XL pipeline. People know that Big Oil is full of reckless operators who don't give a crap what mess they make as long as someone else is stuck with the job of cleaning it up.
It most definitely is a situation for government and law enforcement. It's involuntary manslaughter at the least. Or do you not care that someone died and a lot more were injured?
(Score: 1, Interesting) by khallow on Tuesday September 18 2018, @11:24PM (7 children)
"Possibly"? Maybe you shouldn't have name-dropped it then?
But since you mentioned it, we can take a look. This news story [adn.com] mentions the three largest leaks over a forty year period. Two were due to deliberate sabotage and the largest was a mere 16,000 barrels leaked. In that time, it's passed on [alyeska-pipe.com] almost 18 billion barrels of oil. If "Big Oil" were truly as sloppy as claimed, there'd be bigger accidents out there.
My bet is that the real reason is that the Keystone XL pipeline would significantly increase oil production from the big fields in the Dakotas and Alberta. That in turn would set back the Green agenda to stopping use of oil in a human lifetime. I doubt local environmental concerns were relevant to a majority of the resistance.
(Score: 1, Informative) by aristarchus on Tuesday September 18 2018, @11:59PM (6 children)
Can you say "shill" louder, khallow? The Green Agenda is about to make you unemployed, and unemployable.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by khallow on Wednesday September 19 2018, @12:13AM (5 children)
So what? The Alaska Pipeline's safety record doesn't change, if I'm getting my food pellets from Big Oil or Greenpeace. That's the nature of ad hominem fallacies.
(Score: 1, Informative) by aristarchus on Wednesday September 19 2018, @12:32AM (4 children)
And what does that have to do with Massacheusetts? Why are you inserting your Big Oil paid comments into a discussion about NatGas and public utilities? The hominem here is you, khallow. Your intervention is suspect. You interject in bad faith. Your "facts" are irrelevant to the topic at hand. And your father smelt of elderberries!
(Score: 3, Touché) by khallow on Wednesday September 19 2018, @12:44AM (3 children)
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 19 2018, @01:16AM (2 children)
Uh huh, you do not care, whichbis why you ALWAYS respond to such "bullshit". You are either a lazy worker, a lonely shut in, or a corporate shill. While the first two are amusing the last is certainly more likely.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday September 19 2018, @11:02AM (1 child)
Not always. aristarchus can do better. And I don't always respond to your AC posts, amirite?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 19 2018, @03:10PM
Uiswrong
(Score: 3, Interesting) by RS3 on Tuesday September 18 2018, @11:36PM (4 children)
Yes, even more than decades: https://www.apga.org/apgamainsite/aboutus/facts/history-of-natural-gas [apga.org]
Around 1785 the British were using it.
Around 1816 Baltimore, MD, USA, used piped gas to light streets and homes.
Around 1836 Philadelphia, PA, USA started piping it into streetlights and homes.
So yes, it's been in use for a while and this was worked out long ago. As I comment further down, there should be pressure regulators at each building, and 60 PSI street pressure at regulator inlet is okay, so there's more to this story...
(Score: 2) by NewNic on Tuesday September 18 2018, @11:46PM (3 children)
That depends on your definition of "Natural Gas"
"Around 1785, the British used natural gas produced from coal to light houses and streets."
I remember when the UK converted from "coal gas" to "natural gas". When did the definition of "natural gas" change to include gas produced form coal?
lib·er·tar·i·an·ism ˌlibərˈterēənizəm/ noun: Magical thinking that useful idiots mistake for serious political theory
(Score: 2) by RS3 on Wednesday September 19 2018, @12:05AM (2 children)
I don't know, I gave you a link. Personally I don't like the vague terms, but I understand the history / legacy.
The point of my post was to say that people have been piping some kind of flammable gas into buildings not just for decades, but more than 200 years, so whatever caused this huge disaster hasn't been revealed yet.
(Score: 2) by NewNic on Wednesday September 19 2018, @06:44PM (1 child)
OK, your point was made about the infrastructure. I was just nit-picking.
The legacy of coal gas (also known as town gas) can still be seen in the UK, in the form of abandoned gas holders, such as this one:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/18/Gasometer_in_East_London.jpg [wikimedia.org]
They were also known as "gasometers". The tank expanded and contracted as it was filled and emptied. The pressure must have been quite low.
lib·er·tar·i·an·ism ˌlibərˈterēənizəm/ noun: Magical thinking that useful idiots mistake for serious political theory
(Score: 2) by RS3 on Wednesday September 19 2018, @07:30PM
Nit-picking implies that I have nits. Nit-hunting I'll grant you, but you'll come up empty. :-}
Thank you for that link and pic. Wow, I don't know if I'm more intrigued or scared! Surely there were some mishaps?
Stateside, "natural gas" is pretty much methane and odor added. "Coal gas" has hydrogen, CO, and other stuff with the methane, but I know you know that. I guess the good thing is: if you have a coal gas leak in your house, you'll die of CO before you're burned up.
A somewhat interesting (to me anyway) item, reminiscent of the doomed Mars Climate Orbiter, is that I've always heard (common misconception) that gas pressure inside of homes is 4 PSI. Turns out, it's supposed to be 4 ounces per square inch. I've never measured it, certainly never tried to set it.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 19 2018, @12:48AM
This is not big oil.
And even people who get paid millions of dollars a year with decades of safety processes still make mistakes. Pilots with tens of thousands of hours of experience in one of the most highly regulated industries still make mistakes. World leading experts make mistakes.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday September 19 2018, @01:29AM (2 children)
I looked at buying a piece of land in Texas with about 1/4 mile of petroleum pipeline running through it. Common advice was: all pipelines leak, the question is: how much and what. Gas is not so bad unless it catches your woods on fire. The heavier petroleum won't leak too fast or far, but the more refined stuff can make a pretty good mess.
Turns out that the pipeline was the least of that property's worries, a superfund site was leaching lead from a sham battery recycling operation a couple of miles away and the bloom was poisoning the groundwater over most of the property.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Wednesday September 19 2018, @12:09PM (1 child)
A pipeline paying you passive income for the easement would have been a feature, not a bug, but, yeah, lead in the ground water is a deal killer.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday September 19 2018, @03:14PM
As I recall, the pipeline lease income didn't pay a significant fraction of the property tax, but... yeah, and selling mineral rights is pretty popular in East Texas, too.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Wednesday September 19 2018, @12:02PM
An oil spill would improve North Dakota. It's that beautiful.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 5, Informative) by urza9814 on Tuesday September 18 2018, @10:33PM (45 children)
They do represent the state where this occurred. Granted, it isn't necessarily a federal matter, but they may be looking to create some legislation to protect their constituents from similar events in the future. And they can't really even consider that without knowing what actually happened. So yeah, if they weren't at least trying to find out what happened then I'd be calling them downright incompetent. This is *exactly* the kind of thing they're supposed to be doing.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday September 18 2018, @10:37PM (44 children)
They don't have the legal authority to do anything about it except set an EPA fine. They're just grandstanding.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by bzipitidoo on Tuesday September 18 2018, @10:49PM (23 children)
We could use more grandstanding of this sort, about real problems that are serious and really happened!
(Score: 1, Redundant) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday September 18 2018, @10:52PM (22 children)
From people who can do fuck-all about them, care fuck-all about them, and are only doing so to slime their way to a few more votes? Yeah, that's exactly what we need.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 18 2018, @11:13PM (11 children)
Well since that is all we've got I'll gladly take a senator bothering to give a shit about the problem. Maybe they really care, maybe they really don't, but if it helps generate enough noise to get something done then you can go fuck yourself. Well, more than usual and with something rusty preferably.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday September 18 2018, @11:32PM (8 children)
It won't help shit. They're sucking attention from the people who have actual authority and responsibility to do something about it. Why cover a mayor or governor when a senator is giving you pomp and circumstance? Who cares if they're utterly impotent in the matter?
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday September 19 2018, @07:48AM (7 children)
To be maybe a little more fair - congress and the senate has authority. They can, in theory at least, pass laws regulating the gas distribution industry. They *could* mandate that gas lines and accessories are inspected every year, and that all gas distribution be made safe for 20, 60, or even 120 PSI. Congress is pretty nearly the "ultimate" authority in the US, and they could do a lot of things, if they weren't divided by petty partisan politics.
Of course, none of that is ever going to happen. I'm merely pointing out that congress does have authority to do damned near anything it wants. And, if it really wants to do anything that it lacks authority for, it can do one of two things:
1. Make some mealy-mouthed wishy washy explanation that some puppet judges will go along with, as they did with interstate commerce laws.
2. Call for and push for a constitutional convention, which will give them the authority they demand.
(Score: 3, Informative) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday September 19 2018, @11:19AM (6 children)
No, they really don't. It would be a huge stretch of EPA authority to do much of anything about a specific local utility. Likewise any other federal power granted to congress. Even then, they can only do something about next time; this time is constitutionally beyond their reach.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by NewNic on Wednesday September 19 2018, @06:47PM (1 child)
I don't believe you can say this with any authority.
The Interstate Commerce clause is like Schroedinger's box. You cannot tell what's in it until the Supreme Court rules and the court has been pretty inconsistent in the past.
lib·er·tar·i·an·ism ˌlibərˈterēənizəm/ noun: Magical thinking that useful idiots mistake for serious political theory
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday September 20 2018, @02:36AM
Oh I can say what's in it. Anyone who reads it and doesn't feel like lying to themselves can easily tell it's been abused like a motherfucker every time SCOTUS got the chance. With authority though? Only the authority every other American has.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday September 19 2018, @10:06PM (3 children)
But, that's the beauty of the system. Congress may not address some specific utility service, in some specific town/city, directly. But, they CAN use that city as an example of how horribly things can go wrong. From there, they CAN pass specific laws which will be applicable nationwide. Or, they CAN send some sternly worded letters to various people around the country, demanding that the EPA, and the various states, and/or the various cities "take action, before we do". In the long run, it's probably more efficient to send those sternly worded letters. They scare hell out of (almost) everyone who gets them, and THOSE people are actually in a position to know how to improve things. That, or they appointed the people who actually know.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday September 20 2018, @02:38AM (2 children)
You're really going to sit there and argue that Congress should abuse its position to usurp via proxy powers specifically denied them by the constitution? I thought better of you.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Thursday September 20 2018, @09:12AM (1 child)
Negative.
I am, instead, arguing that congress may do such a thing, as it has already done with the interstate commerce bullshit, as opposed to should. Congress is in a position that they have already committed unconstitutional acts, and there is little to prevent them from doing similar things in the future.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday September 20 2018, @10:31AM
Fair nuff.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 19 2018, @03:17AM (1 child)
Just like when they spent all that time investigating steroid use in baseball.
https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/learning/teachers/featured_articles/20050318friday.html [nytimes.com]
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday September 19 2018, @11:21AM
Pretty much, yes. They at least had a very weak leg to stand on there having previously abused federal power to grant favors to the league though. Here, they have none.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 5, Touché) by bob_super on Tuesday September 18 2018, @11:13PM (9 children)
"Dear elected official, 80 homes just burnt down in your constituency, apparently because someone fucked up the pressure of the explosive gas they deliver to populated areas by an order of magnitude and no safety mechanism tripped."
"Fuck off, TMB said it's not my problem!"
(Score: 4, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday September 18 2018, @11:33PM (8 children)
s/Fuck off.*/Call the mayor or governor, I have no authority over it./
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 18 2018, @11:42PM (1 child)
Pretty sure a mayor will "hop to it" when a senator pomes their head in.
But hey, that is talking about humanity and not PERL scripts so i understand your confusion.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday September 19 2018, @11:23AM
You think? They're a pretty shitty mayor then.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by aristarchus on Wednesday September 19 2018, @12:02AM (5 children)
I was under the impression that TMB was in charge of high-pressure gas. Was I mistaken? Is this another situation where we need to let the market decide who explodes, and keep government hands off our private exploded pieces?
(Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 19 2018, @07:54AM (1 child)
Once again, we see Aristarchus trolling a conversation, with some mindless sycophant partisan modding him up repeatedly.
Dear Mindless Partisan,
You are a worse problem than the idiot Aristarchus. Kindly eliminate yourself from the earth, ASAP.
- Concerned Soylentil
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday September 19 2018, @11:22AM
Fuck off. I modded him up for that one. It was pretty funny.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Wednesday September 19 2018, @12:06PM
Something tells me he never lets his gas build up to high pressures.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 3, Funny) by Azuma Hazuki on Wednesday September 19 2018, @02:37PM (1 child)
I dunno if "high-pressure gas" is exactly what the guy's dealing in, Ari...something tangentially related, maybe, and for sure under high pressure though.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday September 19 2018, @05:16PM
Nice. +1 Funny for you as well.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 4, Informative) by Aegis on Tuesday September 18 2018, @11:14PM (8 children)
Someone tell that to Don Blankenship [mining.com]
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday September 18 2018, @11:36PM (7 children)
That case had arguable federal jurisdiction because of MSHA. This does not. Your argument is retarded.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 19 2018, @01:18AM
Takes one to no one
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday September 19 2018, @07:56AM (3 children)
Interstate commerce almost certainly applies. If farmers can be penalized for growing the wrong crops on their land under interstate commerce law, then gas companies can be held liable for safety standards under those same laws.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday September 19 2018, @11:24AM (2 children)
One blatant abuse of the commerce clause does not justify another.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by NewNic on Wednesday September 19 2018, @06:49PM (1 child)
Tell that to the judges on the Supreme Court, because they have used that abuse as justification for many more abuses.
lib·er·tar·i·an·ism ˌlibərˈterēənizəm/ noun: Magical thinking that useful idiots mistake for serious political theory
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday September 20 2018, @02:41AM
I'd have to tell it to them at my trial if I ever met them. Law enforcement types frown on clocking SCOTUS Justices and then pissing on them after they hit the ground.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 3, Informative) by DeathMonkey on Wednesday September 19 2018, @05:47PM (1 child)
That case had arguable federal jurisdiction because of MSHA. This does not. Your argument is retarded.
Yeah, the federal Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration doesn't have federal jurisdiction.... Your argument is retarded.
Also, PHMSA is part of the DOT, not the EPA.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday September 20 2018, @02:47AM
Grand, so congress has illegally purloined authority in this area. I won't even argue that. I'll instead refer you to the fact that they can do fuck-all about what has already happened (they have zero executive or judicial powers). Then I'll inform you, again, that they are fucking grandstanding and taking both the heat and the spotlight off the people who are actually responsible and have power to get things done. All for political gain. You have no argument.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 5, Informative) by urza9814 on Tuesday September 18 2018, @11:29PM (9 children)
What? The Senate and Congress in general are the ones responsible for *creating* agencies like the EPA! The EPA merely enforces the laws that Congress enacts. If the Senate wants to take action, they can pass a law about it. If they don't have the authority to do that, then the EPA certainly doesn't have the authority to do a damn thing either. They're both part of the federal government, they both cover the same jurisdiction. The EPA enforces the law; but the Senate and House create that law in the first place.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday September 18 2018, @11:38PM (8 children)
I did mention the EPA. Yes, they can absolutely pass new environmental laws going forward but they can't do a damned thing about what happened. See Article I, Section 10, Clause 1 of the U.S. Constitution as to why.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 19 2018, @12:05AM (5 children)
Ex post facto? Really? (Or bill of attainder...?) That's what you read in GP's comment?
*sigh* from up there....
I don't understand why you're triggered, but you're obviously triggered. Was it Elizabeth Warren that triggered you?
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 19 2018, @12:35AM
Yes, I believe it was. Not the first time, by the way.
(for true Hilarity, try throwing a "Pelosi" at him the next time! Wear a rain poncho, though. )
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday September 19 2018, @11:26AM (3 children)
You might want to pay more attention. You can't seem to tell the difference between triggered and barely interested.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 19 2018, @01:41PM (2 children)
Barely interested!
Oh my.... I needed a good laugh this morning. You're quite the comedian.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 19 2018, @03:17PM (1 child)
Hey! His life might just be so exciting and acyion packed that camping SN threads to pontificate on senator's reactions to a small tragedy barely registers. Probably doing it between celebrity stalker emails and his scheming with khallow in #villains4cheep
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday September 19 2018, @05:17PM
Or it's what I always do while drinking my morning coffee...
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by urza9814 on Wednesday September 19 2018, @02:09PM (1 child)
OK, so let's suppose they do want to pass a law to prevent this in the future. You claim that the details about how it happened this time are none of their damn business, so how exactly are they supposed to prevent it in the future without knowing how it happened in the past?
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday September 19 2018, @05:27PM
In fact, no. That is a valid concern of theirs if they can manage to weasel their way into having some authority over what is primarily a local matter. Should they manage that, they need to grab a big ole cup of Shut The Fuck Up until those with primary responsibility and authority have done their jobs. Then, by all means, hold hearings focused specifically on what they have the authority to do something about. Grabbing the microphone away from the people who are actually in charge and might bear actual responsibility for the sake of getting on camera is a dick move though.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday September 19 2018, @01:34AM
Politicians, grandstanding - brought to you by the redundant department of redundancy department.
🌻🌻 [google.com]