SoylentNews is people
SoylentNews
[Update: WOW! Thanks for all the useful feedback! Plenty of information on the TV-as-a-monitor side of things (but feel free to add more!) Would very much appreciate it if folks could provide some input as to what has worked for them in using a laptop to drive a 4K display. I'd consider a used system. Would, ideally, like something that costs in the ~$300 range, but am resigned to the fact I may have to kick out more like ~$750. What graphics adapter do you have. Is it an integrated model (e.g. Intel HD 630) or discrete card? What model? What troubles, if any, have you had with getting proper drivers (windows OR Linux/Debian/BSD/etc.) Could you get the full 60 fps or were you limited to 30 fps? See below the fold for details on my current system and what my needs are compute-wise. --Bytram]
Summary: I need more screen space.
Which means I'll need a new (to me) laptop (portability++) which can support more pixels. I want a system that is Linux/BSD friendly. I don't have a whole lot of money to spend, so I'm hoping I can draw on the experience of my fellow Soylentils to help point me in the right direction. I'd like to avoid overspending, but I don't want to find that I've boxed myself into a corner for making an ignorant mistake.
I used to follow the bleeding edge of technology, but I've now firmly moved into the "I want it to just work" camp.
Current Display: I have a 24-inch, 1920x1200 computer monitor. The majority of my display is taken up my Internet Browser (Pale Moon) which generally has 50+ tabs. It is flush with the top of my screen and covers the entire display except for a ~2 inch margin on the sides and 3 inches on the bottom. That overlays my HexChat IRC (Internet Relay Chat) which runs across the bottom 1/3 of my screen. The remainder of the screen has corners of command windows poking out as well as various utilities like an analog clock, performance monitor, connection monitor, etc.
TV as Monitor: Over the past few months I've seen the prices for 4K (3840x2160) televisions plummet. I've got my eye on a TCL 43S517 43-Inch 4K Ultra HD Roku Smart LED TV (2018 Model) which Amazon has on sale for $349.00 with free shipping.
As I see it, I could get a display with better dot pitch than what I have now, and much more screen real estate, for relatively little money.
The vast majority of what I do is command line based, be it in a Windows (7 Pro X64) CMD.exe command window, or an occasional PuTTY session into Soylent's Servers. I do not do any video gaming. My only video needs are an occasional short clip from YouTube, or a DVD (I have neither cable TV nor do I stream video with Netflix or their ilk; no Blu-ray, either). Internet access is currently via a tethered LTE cell phone.
Current computer: Thanks to the generosity of a fellow Soylentil, my current system is a Dell Latitude E6400 with a Core 2 Duo P8700 (1.8-2.5 GHz) with 8GB RAM and a 500GB 7200-rpm WD Black disk drive. Video is handled by a NVIDIA Quadro NVS 160M.
New Laptop: My current is not going to cut it. So, I'm also on the lookout for a new (to me) laptop. I don't need much in the way of compute power. I figure pretty much any i3 or i5 should be more than enough for my computing needs. And, an Intel integrated graphics chip should be up to the task given a recent enough generation, but I'm not sure how current a model I'd need. I'm further confused by the different connection schemes and versions. I've found this page on Intel. What will I need? HDMI 1.4? Display Port 1.2? Other? Would I be able to run both a 4K monitor @ 60Hz and my existing 1920x1200 display?
With the increasing trade war rhetoric, I'm getting nervous there may be a price spike in the not too distant future. Further, I sense merchants are clearing out the current stock in anticipation of the holiday season, so I'm thinking the time is right for me to take the plunge and upgrade.
Conclusion: So, what have your experiences been using a 4K television as a computer monitor? What 'gotchas' have you run into? What things did you learn the hard way that you wish someone had told you about beforehand? What driver problems have you encountered? Did you have any issues with Linux/BSD drivers? What worked for you?
(Score: 4, Interesting) by KilroySmith on Friday September 21 2018, @12:22AM (4 children)
I've used a 4K TV as a monitor for a couple of years, and used HDTV's as monitors prior to that.
Fortunately for me, I crossed the age that my eyes were no longer able to focus at monitor distance after HDTV's got cheap. I hate wearing my glasses, so instead I bought 32" HDTVs. Black Friday a couple of years ago, I upgraded to a 40" Samsung 4K cheap.
Nowadays when I walk through the office, I notice how many people are leaned forward squinting at their 15" laptop screens, or 24" external monitors. None of the people with 32s are doing so. A 32" 4K monitor may be about perfect for those with good eyes; for me, a 40" 4K monitor isn't quite big enough without my glasses - I should have got a 49". The 40 isn't so big that I have to move my head significantly to see the corners; I figure a 49 will be, but that's fine.
The biggest problem I've had over the years is adjusting the controls for sharp text. Most of the TVs are aimed at movies and shows, and like to "smooth" the picture. Not so good for computer output. I've always been able to adjust for a good picture, but there have been one or two monitors over the years where the picture wasn't as sharp as I would have liked.
I've never had an issue with refresh rate - 30p or 60i work fine for work and casual play. It also means that you can use a $5 HDMI cable and not worry about bandwidth. DisplayPort and Mini-Displayport are easily converted to HDMI, so don't worry too much about those. Likely any CPU that is capable of 4K output would have zero issues displaying YouTube videos, all the way through 4K NetFlix movies. That's just not a concern either.
There's nothing better than being able to put up four 1920x1080 non-overlapping windows on the screen. All of the "flipping" that you have to do on smaller screens simply goes away. I also found that, with bigger displays, you get a bonus - you can reduce the font size in console-type windows and still have the text legible. I can read 160 column text displays in a 1920x1080 window on my 40" monitor easily; this means that you can size the window for 120 column text, and get 6 non-overlapping windows on the screen (or enjoy the 160 column goodness).
As far as hardware capabilities in a laptop, you'll have to play that one by ear. My four year old Lenovo business laptop was incapable of driving a 4K display; I'd guess that today even the low-end consumer laptops would have no problems doing so. Getting two external monitors working is probably going to be difficult with a consumer machine (where there'll likely be only a single HDMI output), but may be trivial with a higher end laptop with two outputs (probably one HDMI and one DisplayPort). This'll be the thing that you'll have to watch carefully and probably test before you purchase a new laptop.
(Score: 2) by martyb on Friday September 21 2018, @01:20AM (3 children)
Sounds like you were in the exact same boat I am now, just a couple years ahead of me... can't thank you enough for sharing your experiences!
I'll watch for "smoothed" pixels vs clear text... thanks!
Glasses-free viewing is one of my goals, as well.
No problem with a sub-60Hz refresh rate? I find that... surprising. I first started using computers before there even was an IBM PC. So, I've seen all the noise about screen flicker over the years, and experienced it first hand. Maybe things are different/better with an LCD versus the old CRTs that I had experienced the flickering on?
As for driving multiple displays, it seems to me that if I had the latest thunder-something or USB 3.0 version/class gobbledegook, I could get a hub which would split out multiple monitor connectors from that single cable. That would be a significant step up in system capability than what I am looking for at the moment, but it might be good to keep in mind for the future.
Wit is intellect, dancing.
(Score: 2) by KilroySmith on Friday September 21 2018, @02:02AM (2 children)
Don't worry about flickering from low refresh rate - the technology in flat screens is vastly different than CRTs, and there's no flicker.
There are USB->HDMI dongles (like https://www.amazon.com/Cable-Matters-SuperSpeed-Adapter-Windows/dp/B00BPEV1XK [amazon.com] ) that'd work fine for an HDMI second monitor with limited performance (you won't be playing Doom on it) but web pages, IRC, terminal windows would work fine.
(Score: 2) by martyb on Friday September 21 2018, @03:40AM (1 child)
Good to know; thanks!
From that link:
(Emphasis added).
Looks like the right idea, but lacks the resolution that I am looking for, i.e. 4K (3840x2160).
Wit is intellect, dancing.
(Score: 2) by KilroySmith on Friday September 21 2018, @06:54PM
I was suggesting that for connection of your old monitor (1920x1200), presuming that you'd connect the 4K monitor directly to the new laptop (assuming it supports 4K) to maximize performance for it. They you'd have three screens - laptop, 4K, 2K. Or, if you buy wisely, you won't need it.
For example, this laptop:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lenovo-ThinkPad-T440s-14-Intel-i5-8GB-RAM-500GB-HDD-Win-10-Pro-Business-Laptop/283096820164?hash=item41e9e2a9c4 [ebay.com]
has, I believe, a 4K capable HDMI port and a VGA port, to which you can likely attach your 4K and your 2K monitors without the USB dongle. If you buy the docking station for it, you'll end up with even more connection options. Now, it's an older laptop, and you'd probably want to replace the HDD with an SSD (which might cost more than the laptop!) (of course, this laptop has an empty M.2 slot so you can ADD an SSD, rather than replacing the HDD, ending with twice the storage). It's from Lenovo's business line, so it's likely built better than the average consumer machine.
It'd be hard to argue with the value you get for something like this. But, I'm just a random joe on the internet, so I'd suggest verifying anything I've said.