Stories
Slash Boxes
Comments

SoylentNews is people

posted by chromas on Wednesday October 03 2018, @04:16PM   Printer-friendly
from the 23%-budget-cuts dept.

California is officially the first state that will try to require companies like Apple, Facebook and Alphabet to add more women to their boards

California Governor Jerry Brown signed a bill into law today that requires major companies with headquarters in California — including many household-name tech firms — to have at least one woman on their boards by next year, and depending on the size of the board, up to three women by 2021.

The law is the first of its kind in the U.S., and proponents say it's needed to equalize the representation of women in corporate boardroom. Currently, a quarter of California's publicly traded companies do not have a woman on their boards. Companies that fail to comply with the new rule face fines of $100,000 for a first violation and $300,000 for a second or subsequent violation.

The law already faces opposition from business groups, which could challenge the basis of preferential hiring toward women. In signing the bill, Gov. Brown acknowledged the bill's "potential flaws" that could prove "fatal" to implementation, but nevertheless supported its passing, citing "recent events in Washington, D.C. — and beyond — make it crystal clear that many are not getting the message" around gender equality.


Original Submission

 
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.
Display Options Threshold/Breakthrough Mark All as Read Mark All as Unread
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
  • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 03 2018, @05:47PM (63 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 03 2018, @05:47PM (#743512)

    Won't somebody think of the men and their fragile egos!

    Starting Score:    0  points
    Moderation   +1  
       Insightful=1, Total=1
    Extra 'Insightful' Modifier   0  

    Total Score:   1  
  • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 03 2018, @06:02PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 03 2018, @06:02PM (#743521)

    Won't somebody think of the men and their fragile egos!

    Governor Brown could have signed into law that state, county and municipal employees must be gender balanced. Why aren't women interested in these decent paying jobs? [cnn.com]

  • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 03 2018, @06:07PM (57 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 03 2018, @06:07PM (#743524)

    Ergo, the privileged patriarchy doesn't exist. It's a lie.

    Same logic applies to all other leftist lies:

    • Who freed the slaves? Straight white men.

    • Who gave women the vote? Straight white men.

    • Who desegregated the nation? Straight white men.

    • Who instituted affirmative action? Straight white men.

    Yet, who gets blamed for the world's racism, sexism, oppression, and intolerance? Straight white men.

    The great irony is that this law is sexist; it's just that the privileged class is not "Men", but rather "Women". Ha!

    • (Score: 0, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 03 2018, @06:30PM (25 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 03 2018, @06:30PM (#743545)

      Why did it take men until the early 20th century, just over 2,400 years after democracy was invented in Athens, to include women in the democratic process?

      • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 03 2018, @06:57PM (23 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 03 2018, @06:57PM (#743571)

        It wasn't until the early 20th century that society had enough wealth (and productivity) to afford educating the non-childbearing non-childrearing HALF of the population.

        Also, men have traditionally been the bread-winners, and thus men are the ones who have been subject to taxation; hell, men are still the payers of the majority of tax monies, and women are still the takers of the majority of welfare monies—not exactly symmetric citizenship when it comes to voting on what government should be doing, eh?

        Of course, with the enactment of an individual income tax in 1913, it's not surprising that the government would try to get half of the population engaged in taxable work. Why do you think mothering is shit on as denigrating work, but leaving your kids in daycare isn't?

        Moreover, men have been the one's subject to conscription (the "draft"; enslavement to the military). Ergo, men got a say in whether their government should go to war. And, you know what? Men are STILL subject to the goddman draft, and indeed could be prosecuted and found guilty of a felony for not "voluntarily" signing up for this duty; you know what you can't do when you've got a felony on your record? YOU CANNOT VOTE!

        Do you get this? Seriously. Women get to vote because they turn 18. Men get to vote because they turned 18 AND AGREED TO MILITARY DUTY.

        Who's privileged, I ask? Who has real suffrage I ask? WHO? I think we know... It's the same people for whom laws mandate their inclusion on corporate boards.

        • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Wednesday October 03 2018, @07:12PM (12 children)

          by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Wednesday October 03 2018, @07:12PM (#743587) Journal

          Aaaaaaaand who is making men suffer like this? Why, *other men.* So this comes down to class eventually, with the sex/gender issues as a convenient scapegoat for the (rightful!) rage the downtrodden men feel. Rich men and rich mens' sons don't go fight wars. Poor men and poor mens' sons do. Why is that?

          --
          I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 03 2018, @07:15PM (9 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 03 2018, @07:15PM (#743590)

            You're moving the goal-posts now.

            You've just admitted that it's true. "Straight White Men" are the wrong target for your anger.

            Anyway, I disagree with your analysis that rich men are the problem; my reading of history is that rich men have done the most to pull the rest of you out of the dregs. Not only is this true of the Aristocrats, but it's 100x true of the Capitalists.

            • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Azuma Hazuki on Wednesday October 03 2018, @07:27PM (8 children)

              by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Wednesday October 03 2018, @07:27PM (#743605) Journal

              On the contrary, dear friend, it's not moving the goalposts at ALL. It's pointing out the roots of what is called "the patriarchy" are as much or more based on class than on sex or gender. Your "reading of history" is also beside the point: nothing says wealth accumulation has to help everyone, and we find that it doesn't, actually; a rising tide lifts all boats, but if you don't have a boat, you'll just be left behind and drown.

              It's those same leftists you'll shit all over who got you the 40 hour workweek, unemployment benefits, OSHA, child labor laws, Social Security, etc., and you are cheering on the destruction of these very things that allow life to be better than hellish for the working and middle classes. These things had to be forcibly taken from the Aristocrats and Capitalists, as you insist on spelling it. Look at the mid to late 19th century industrialization in the US and England to see what happens without these protections.

              --
              I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
              • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 03 2018, @07:34PM (6 children)

                by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 03 2018, @07:34PM (#743611)

                Those "benefits" are only possible because Capitalist made society so fucking wealthy that they could finally afford to even entertain those ideas.

                And, you know what? The rich work more than 40 hours a week, and child labor laws have resulted in young adults who are almost indistinguishable from children.

                It's crazy. You're blind both to the foundations of modern society and also to the unintended consequences of do-gooders.

                • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Azuma Hazuki on Wednesday October 03 2018, @11:11PM (5 children)

                  by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Wednesday October 03 2018, @11:11PM (#743740) Journal

                  You're telling me that eight-year-olds getting abused and maimed in factories is good for society? Go to Hell. Seriously, go to Hell, and reincarnate in Pakistan somewhere as a kid working in a garment factory. There's your "good for society."

                  --
                  I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
                  • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 04 2018, @12:54AM (3 children)

                    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 04 2018, @12:54AM (#743781)

                    Besides, why do you blame the factory owners who are providing a job for a poor family, rather than the dubmfuck poor people who just won't quit making more of themselves?

                    • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Thursday October 04 2018, @04:18AM (2 children)

                      by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Thursday October 04 2018, @04:18AM (#743848) Journal

                      Tell you what, how about I pay you $5 an hour to rip you open and play Stairway to Heaven on your intestines (after, of course, stretching them to the appropriate tension on a rack of some sort). Sound like a good deal? If not, why not? Extrapolate this to "jobs" where people are maimed, poisoned, outright killed, or just slowly ground down to nothing and then thrown away like a used tissue, and you may see where I'm coming from.

                      Or you may not, in which case the only future for you is reincarnation in several of those jobs. I'm warning you now, karma is an even bigger bitch than me.

                      --
                      I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
                      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 04 2018, @09:22AM (1 child)

                        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 04 2018, @09:22AM (#743954)

                        This has been tested a few times now. Are people better off being oppressed and slowly killed by factory work, or not?
                        The answer is: Yes, they are.
                        There are other ways. Better ways. Sadly, in today's world, those ways are not viable or used. They tend to be more expensive.

                        There have been a number of cases recently where a factories have collapsed. Yet another 'oppress the poor with poorly paid factory jobs'. Hundreds have been killed. Thousands put out of work. Where do they go? Back to the villages they came from? To other jobs?

                        It sucks. It really does. It is awful. Britain had the industrial revolution. America went through the same. Industry builds up, improves, wages rise, conditions improve, and another country starts to bootstrap itself out of agriculture into industry. The world turns.

                        Yes, have a bleeding heart. No, we can't change the world or save everyone today.

                        We can only hope that tomorrow is just like today, perhaps a little better.

                        • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Thursday October 04 2018, @03:57PM

                          by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Thursday October 04 2018, @03:57PM (#744152) Journal

                          You have such clouded, incomplete vision. I will grant you that, maybe, and this is ONLY a maybe, that sort of industrialized horror is necessary *once* in *one* place in the globe, and this is due more to ignorance about alternatives due to simply not having them in one's worldview than any hard laws of physics. Once it's been seen, it should never happen again, doubly so in a world with today's technology.

                          Once one place managed to hit post-scarcity regarding water and power, there is no excuse, ever, for that kind of industrial Hell on earth to exist. I'm trying to be charitable here and assume you simply lack imagination and vision, but a dark part of me suspects you want people--so long as they're not you--to suffer like that for some reason.

                          --
                          I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
                  • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 04 2018, @02:27AM

                    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 04 2018, @02:27AM (#743800)

                    Little girls should be married to men: see: laws of YHWH.

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 03 2018, @10:47PM

                by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 03 2018, @10:47PM (#743718)

                the roots of what is called "the patriarchy" are as much or more based on class than on sex or gender

                This is true. The Greek "patriá" meant tribe or family, patriarch simply means head of the group. The male head of the household was called "kyrios". Nobody tell the lunatics over here [sjwiki.org] they got this as backwards as the rest of their nonsensical, pseudo-religious ideology.

          • (Score: 2) by Spamalope on Thursday October 04 2018, @02:34AM (1 child)

            by Spamalope (5233) on Thursday October 04 2018, @02:34AM (#743803) Homepage

            Women aren't subject to the draft, and that's fair because they don't have the right to vote. (decided before universal suffrage, not changed because the legal system values 'finality' - and because they don't want to catch that hot potato)

            Since aristocracy is being brought up: gender/class/race conflict is a tool of those at the top of the hierarchy to stay there. Participating in the pot stirring they engender is playing into their hands. (take with as many grains of salt as you need)

            How about recognizing that the desires, inclinations and innate strengths of each gender are (on average) different? Those result in unequal outcomes. Women seem to suffer from the mental illness that'd prompt someone to work 80 hours a week less often than men, for example. (+1 for female sanity) So address injustice, but don't cause injustice. There is a difference in what's fulfilling for individuals that has a gender component (on average), and that's ok. - also don't pigeon hole anyone because of gender/race/etc

            • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Thursday October 04 2018, @04:08AM

              by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Thursday October 04 2018, @04:08AM (#743842) Journal

              I'm with you on that. Seems like common sense and basic human decency are taking a backseat to agendas, though... :/ And I have no idea how to fix that.

              --
              I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 03 2018, @07:13PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 03 2018, @07:13PM (#743589)

          Obviously, I meant:

          It wasn't until the early 20th century that society had enough wealth (and productivity) to afford educating the childbearing, childrearing HALF of the population.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 03 2018, @07:15PM (8 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 03 2018, @07:15PM (#743591)

          It wasn't until the early 20th century that society had enough wealth (and productivity) to afford educating the non-childbearing non-childrearing HALF of the population.

          - Are you saying that educated women did not exist prior to the 20th century?
          - Are you saying that all men who were included in democracy were educated?
          - What constitutes sufficient education for inclusion in the democratic process?
          - Can you demonstrate that women had a say in how their bodies were used and voluntarily chose motherhood for the greater good?
          - How do you account for barren women who were also deprived of inclusion in the democratic process?

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 03 2018, @07:31PM (7 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 03 2018, @07:31PM (#743607)

            In a time of extremely limited resources, and a history of war and famine and uncertain fate, 2 things were decided by the collective:

            • Men have to go out into the world to find food and build shelter.
            • Women got to stay at home and rear the children.

            As an efficiency, all aspects of life were organized into hierarchies, including the family; the familial hierarchy was represented by the head of the household, who was invariably the person who was tasked with going out into the harsh world to gather resources and provide: the Father.

            The King was at the very top of the social hierarchy, but as Noble heads of household got wealthier, they too wanted a say; to avoid incessant war, Parliaments were created to give the Nobles a say (it's in the name "Parliament"), and the Kings' power was increasingly constrained to this parliamentary vote.

            As the Commoner heads of household got wealthier, they too wanted a say. And, so, the House of Commons (and the like) were created.

            Then, as women became more independent do to the Industrial Revolution, they too wanted a say.

            DO YOU FUCKING GET IT YET?????????!!!!11111

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 03 2018, @08:00PM (6 children)

              by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 03 2018, @08:00PM (#743633)

              No, I don't get it, Ms. Vim. You haven't answered any of my questions.

              How does your analysis account for a long list of female hereditary rulers [wikipedia.org]?

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 03 2018, @08:06PM (5 children)

                by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 03 2018, @08:06PM (#743639)

                That long list just emphasizes my point.

                Also, I don't know what "Ms. Vim" means.

                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 03 2018, @08:14PM (4 children)

                  by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 03 2018, @08:14PM (#743643)

                  Somebody from your school of writing technique had argued that gender in the English language is reflective of whether something is special or not. That person was very convincing, and she also helped me to understand that anarcho-capitalism is a feasible but only after men have been eradicated. You're very special, so I figured it would be best to use female forms of address with you.

                  - Are you saying that the right to vote has been historically tied to economic class?
                  - Why were those female rulers going out into the world and providing for their people instead of being engaged with raising children?

                  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 03 2018, @08:58PM (2 children)

                    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 03 2018, @08:58PM (#743669)

                    The only reason they are of note is because they were the exception; the fact that they represent an exception proves the rule I've outlined.

                    Put another way, you're arguing that I should have written "almost invariably" rather than "invariably". So what?

                    Obviously, their exceptional positions derive from their economic pedigree; their families were wealthy enough to afford preparing them for such a role, or they represented a placeholder for a man who is or would be worthy of such a role (at the time or in the near future). And, besides economic class, there are the aforementioned political issues around voting, such as whether one is subject to the draft—if you're subject to the draft, you have the privilege to vote; if you're a woman, then you have the privilege to vote... because... well... because you've got a vajayjay.

                    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 03 2018, @09:43PM (1 child)

                      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 03 2018, @09:43PM (#743688)

                      Obviously, their exceptional positions derive from their economic pedigree; their families were wealthy enough to afford preparing them for such a role

                      Are you saying that the reason we do not see many female rulers is because more men than women come from families wealthy enough to prepare them for such a role?

                      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 03 2018, @10:47PM

                        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 03 2018, @10:47PM (#743717)
                        • A woman is inherently valuable for the fact that she can bear children, and she's inherently invaluable because of her relative physical weakness; if you're going to spend resources building an educated mind and a productive body, it's best to spend it on males, who are otherwise pretty worthless. This was especially true in the not-distant past.

                        • Strangely, the statistics seem to show that wealthy families birth more males than females, whereas poor families tend to birth (or at least nurture) more females than males. It's not much difference, but it's there. Maybe that's mother nature's way of mixing the classes. So, yes.

                  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 04 2018, @09:24AM

                    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 04 2018, @09:24AM (#743955)
      • (Score: 2) by FatPhil on Wednesday October 03 2018, @11:03PM

        by FatPhil (863) <{pc-soylent} {at} {asdf.fi}> on Wednesday October 03 2018, @11:03PM (#743735) Homepage
        What makes you think that men had the vote during that time?
        Learn some freaking history, please.
        --
        Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 03 2018, @06:51PM (14 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 03 2018, @06:51PM (#743564)

      Who freed enslaved the slaves? Straight white men.

      Who gave women set up the vote for men only? Straight white men.

      Who desegregated segregated the nation? Straight white men.

      Who instituted affirmative action kept the nation segregated after the Civil War? Straight white men.

      • (Score: 4, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 03 2018, @07:11PM (11 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 03 2018, @07:11PM (#743585)

        You think immuno-decificient white men just waltzed into diseased Africa to take their pick of warrior tribal peoples? Get real! They BOUGHT them.

        Black tribes enslaved rival black tribes, and sold them to Arabs, who castrated them (hence the small black population there today).

        Whites bought slaves too, but purchased them according to contract law as indentured servants, just like the Irish were bought as indentured servants in order to travel to the New World; as per the contract, they'd become Freed Men after some number of years.

        The first legally recognized slaveholder in what would become the US was... a BLACK AFRICAN named Anthony Johnson, who had been a slave and who was purchased as an indentured servant, and then freed as per the contract; however, he purchased his own laborers, but wrote the contract so as to make them slaves, a case which went to court and ruled in his favor.

        The white slaveholders of the South were a TINY minority of all white people. Meanwhile, in the West, slavery became a taboo subject; the British outlawed it throughout their empire, and the U.S. fell increasingly into international disrepute until the Civil War, when a bunch of white men killed a bunch of other white men all to ensure the rights of a few black men.

        Neither Slavery nor Segregation was not a "white" thing; after all, it was a phenomenon of the South (and of other parts of the non-white world). Rather, segregation was a government program, and a political retaliation for the "War of Northern Aggression" (the Civil War). It was a "government" thing; you weren't allowed to serve whites and blacks together, even if you wanted to do so, BY LAW.

        In short, the world is a lot messier than your stupid narrative "Whites bad, mkay?".

        • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Azuma Hazuki on Wednesday October 03 2018, @07:16PM (10 children)

          by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Wednesday October 03 2018, @07:16PM (#743594) Journal

          Which explains why several states explicitly listed slavery as a reason for attempting secession, no?

          Hmm, you made an interesting class-based point, though: most southern whites weren't slaveowners. It was a minority. A wealthy minority, who of course wanted the slavery gravy train to continue, and were willing to go to war over it. And it was largely those non-slave-owning southern whites who died for the Confederacy rather than the wealthy slaveowners, no?

          THIS is why I keep telling people, unless you're wealthy as hell, you have more in common with others of your class whatever their skin tone than you do with others of your hue who have tremendously more money than you. Race, sex, gender, all of it is being used as a divide-and-conquer by the elite to keep themselves wealthy.

          --
          I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
          • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 03 2018, @07:53PM (6 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 03 2018, @07:53PM (#743629)

            As you suggest, Wealth is a state of mind; the poor have a poor state of mind.

            • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Wednesday October 03 2018, @11:13PM (5 children)

              by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Wednesday October 03 2018, @11:13PM (#743742) Journal

              Excuse me?! No, I did not suggest any such thing. Stop putting words in my mouth and stop trying to turn me into a voice for whatever insane laissez-faire gibbertarian gibberish you're pushing.

              --
              I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 04 2018, @12:13AM (4 children)

                by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 04 2018, @12:13AM (#743764)

                You're being trolled by someone who wants to mock your serious approach to this topic. Thanks for your points Azuma, spot on as usual.

                • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 04 2018, @12:59AM (3 children)

                  by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 04 2018, @12:59AM (#743783)

                  "Stick to your own kind" and then eventually "Kill the Bourgeoisie! Hang them in their Sunday best with their own neckties!"

                  You know what's a serious approach? Think wealthy! Act like that which you want to become. There is NOTHING respectable about being poor.

                  • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Thursday October 04 2018, @04:11AM (2 children)

                    by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Thursday October 04 2018, @04:11AM (#743844) Journal

                    Good habits alone don't make someone wealthy, and many wealthy people have awful habits. Hell, I'm completely straight-edge, live like a monk, and manage to save money on 20K a year gross, and I STILL ended up homeless for a while back in 2010. I don't think you're actually arguing in good faith, though; I think you're just here to stir shit up. Away to your bridge, troll.

                    --
                    I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
                    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 04 2018, @12:24PM (1 child)

                      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 04 2018, @12:24PM (#744027)

                      You're not thinking wealthy - your thinking has adapted to being poor. There's a huge difference.

                      • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Thursday October 04 2018, @03:58PM

                        by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Thursday October 04 2018, @03:58PM (#744154) Journal

                        Explain to us, oh master sage of wealth, in great detail, what "thinking wealthy" entails, and what resources and pre-existing wealth is necessary in order to put those thoughts into action. In. Detail. I'll wait.

                        --
                        I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
          • (Score: 3, Informative) by Spamalope on Thursday October 04 2018, @02:59AM

            by Spamalope (5233) on Thursday October 04 2018, @02:59AM (#743810) Homepage

            -sigh-
            The motivations at the beginning of the civil war were tangled. It was not one thing, especially at the start. Motivations were very different depending on the state, and the social class of the individual. In border states enlisting to protect your home from attack and looting was a common reason and legit. Resisting attempts at overt control via the industrial North looking to treat the South as a colony had some basis in the record as well.

            As did pure racism, bigotry and greed (exploitation motive). Those beliefs existed all around though. (aka racism was common in the North, as was a desire by some industrialists to expliot... well, everyone else)

            Once emancipation declarations were used as threats in an attempt to end secession the whole war over slavery as a general thing became galvanized as a reason, but that was after the start - far more confused before then. And you could argue that the fugitive slave act, which required northerners to cooperate with an help pay for the capture of escaped slaves so outraged the non-slave states that it's the real cause of the war. But - the outrage wasn't necessarily the slaves so much as shifting the financial burden (i.e. there is lots of bad and worse, not good and bad when it comes to the slavery issue).

            The TLDR though is that it's complicated. Not as an excuse, but that there is more blame to throw around for more topics than Slavery and even with Slavery there are few figures you could call good vs a dogs breakfast of bad and worse.

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brAsC_MEAxY&list=PLALopHfWkFlGOn0oxjgp5gGzj-pnqeY0G [youtube.com] This series on historical controversies by Chris Calton is quite good - start at episode 13 for the civil war. It's long but very interesting. (he's at episode 58 and still just at the beginning of the actual war - but really the tangled situation at the start is interesting and takes time to come to grips with) Not endorsing anything else on the channel - just Chris's work.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 04 2018, @12:17PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 04 2018, @12:17PM (#744021)

            Yes, it does explain. The rich land/slave owners also ran the government (you had to own land to vote). The rich land/slave owners had an incentive to keep slavery legal. Poor free-people were economically disadvantaged by slavery - jobs they could have had were given to slaves, and they were often coerced into shareholding and similar agreements that made them little more than serfs.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 04 2018, @06:44PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 04 2018, @06:44PM (#744249)

            Death to the aristos!

      • (Score: 2) by hemocyanin on Thursday October 04 2018, @04:08AM

        by hemocyanin (186) on Thursday October 04 2018, @04:08AM (#743843) Journal

        Eyak, Tlingit, Haida and Tsimshian Cultures of Alaska [alaskanative.net]:

        In this culture, no central government existed. Each village and each clan house resolved its differences through traditional customs and practices; no organized gatherings for discussions of national policy making took place. Decisions were made at the clan, village or house level, affecting clan members of an individual village or house. The people had a highly stratified culture, consisting of high-ranking individuals/families, commoners and slaves. Unlike present day marriages, unions were arranged by family members. Slaves were usually captives from war raids on other villages.

        http://firstpeoplesofcanada.com/fp_groups/fp_nwc6.html [firstpeoplesofcanada.com] :

        • The Northwest Coast people never developed a democracy. Instead, their society was ruled by wealth. The wealthiest clan had the most power.
        • Their society included different classes: nobles, commoners, and slaves (acquired through War or purchase).
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 04 2018, @09:42AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 04 2018, @09:42AM (#743963)

        Actually, black people enslaved black people for a long time.
        Arabs enslaved white people for centuries. They still do. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2408398/Amanda-Lindhout-Somalia-hostage-beaten-starved-gang-raped-forced-birth-captivity.html [dailymail.co.uk]

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 03 2018, @06:52PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 03 2018, @06:52PM (#743567)

      Fucking christ nooooo you dumbass.

      Just because the legislators were mostly straight white men does not mean they were the ones doing the hard work. Women fought for the right to vote, slaves fought for the right to be free. Sure plenty of straight white males helped out too but you're reactionary "muh uppreshun" is ridiculous. The forces of actual oppression are overwhelmingly coming from straight white males. No need to feel guilty about that if you aren't an oppressive asshole, so stop whining like you're being sent to a "reeducation" camp.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 03 2018, @07:09PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 03 2018, @07:09PM (#743582)

      That's like my wanting credit for taking my boot off your neck.

      All those human violations were instituted by "Straight white men". They acquiesced after facing overwhelming opposition from the oppressed.

      Apparently, you're still sick.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 04 2018, @09:28AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 04 2018, @09:28AM (#743960)

        You don't sound appreciative.
        Let's just go back to the way things were in the 1800s then shall we.

    • (Score: 3, Informative) by Azuma Hazuki on Wednesday October 03 2018, @07:10PM (8 children)

      by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Wednesday October 03 2018, @07:10PM (#743583) Journal

      Do you understand that the same people who did all these things needed to have their asses kicked, to varying degrees and in varying ways, all up and down the aisle before they did? And tons of them seem to resent the hell out of these changes?

      Look, let me put it this way: if I torture you 2/3 to death, do I suddenly become a good person when I stop the actual torture and just smack you in the face a few times a day randomly? Does it change the fact that I broke your body and mind over and over almost to the point of death? No. No it does not.

      Christ, to think someone would be evil and stupid enough to actually post that unironically...

      --
      I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
      • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 03 2018, @07:37PM (2 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 03 2018, @07:37PM (#743614)

        Ergo, Asses got kicked => No Patriarchy.

        This whole "Patriarchy" idea is patently false. It's so stupid that it cannot even withstand the simplest logical analysis.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 04 2018, @12:15AM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 04 2018, @12:15AM (#743765)

          Damn you're stupid. Like really dumb. Just smart enough to read and type, but too stupid to say anything useful.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 04 2018, @01:03AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 04 2018, @01:03AM (#743788)

            Not an argument.

      • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 04 2018, @01:01AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 04 2018, @01:01AM (#743785)

        Ergo, Asses got kicked => No Patriarchy.

        This whole "Patriarchy" idea is patently false. It's so stupid that it cannot even withstand the simplest logical analysis.

      • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 04 2018, @04:30PM (3 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 04 2018, @04:30PM (#744165)

        Ergo, Asses got kicked => No Patriarchy.

        This whole "Patriarchy" idea is patently false. It's so stupid that it cannot even withstand the simplest logical analysis.

        • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Thursday October 04 2018, @05:39PM (2 children)

          by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Thursday October 04 2018, @05:39PM (#744204) Journal

          You said this a few times. It's no more true for the repetition. By that logic, the US isn't a superpower because we got our asses kicked in 'Nam.

          --
          I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
          • (Score: -1, Redundant) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 05 2018, @06:03AM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 05 2018, @06:03AM (#744526)

            The U.S. is strong, but it ain't the power Americans want to believe, as proved over and over.

            Get it yet?

            • (Score: 3, Touché) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday October 05 2018, @03:57PM

              by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Friday October 05 2018, @03:57PM (#744660) Journal

              Oh I get exactly what you're *trying* to say. And it's bullshit. You may as well say Superman isn't actually a superhero because he hasn't won every single fight he ever got in. Go troll somewhere else you obsessive little booger.

              --
              I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 03 2018, @10:58PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 03 2018, @10:58PM (#743730)
      • Who freed the slaves? Straight white men.
      • Who gave women the vote? Straight white men.
      • Who desegregated the nation? Straight white men.
      • Who instituted affirmative action? Straight white men.

      ... but try to fuck a sheep one time ...

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 04 2018, @02:32PM (2 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 04 2018, @02:32PM (#744092)

      Who kept humans as slaves for thousands of years? Straight white men, until a few caved to pressure.
      Who kept women from the vote for almost a hundred years? Straight white men, until a few caved to pressure.
      Who kept the nation segregated for as long as possible? Straight white men, until a few caved to pressure.
      Who kept women and minorities from equal employment and education opportunities for as long as possible? Straight white men, until a few caved to pressure.
      Who constantly whines about women and minorities being "privileged"? Straight white men.

      • (Score: -1, Redundant) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 04 2018, @04:33PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 04 2018, @04:33PM (#744166)

        It doesn't even make sense; why would a few caving make any difference?

        Your mind is warped.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 05 2018, @06:04AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 05 2018, @06:04AM (#744527)

        It doesn't even make sense; why would a few caving make any difference?

        Your mind is warped.

  • (Score: 2) by takyon on Wednesday October 03 2018, @06:29PM (1 child)

    by takyon (881) <takyonNO@SPAMsoylentnews.org> on Wednesday October 03 2018, @06:29PM (#743544) Journal

    This is an emergency alert message sent by the National Wireless Emergency Alert System. Please remember to respect women. No further action is needed.

    --
    [SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 03 2018, @07:59PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 03 2018, @07:59PM (#743632)

      Mine said "No Collusion".

  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by crafoo on Wednesday October 03 2018, @07:35PM (1 child)

    by crafoo (6639) on Wednesday October 03 2018, @07:35PM (#743612)

    If anyone is guilty of a fragile ego it certainly isn't straight white men. You haven't been paying attention to the modern world. Fragile egos abound. Just look for those unwilling to have a conversation about their beliefs and instead shout down anyone questioning their opinions.

    • (Score: 2) by Joe Desertrat on Friday October 05 2018, @10:51PM

      by Joe Desertrat (2454) on Friday October 05 2018, @10:51PM (#744827)

      If anyone is guilty of a fragile ego it certainly isn't straight white men. You haven't been paying attention to the modern world. Fragile egos abound. Just look for those unwilling to have a conversation about their beliefs and instead shout down anyone questioning their opinions.

      Sounds just like Fox News and right wing talk radio,