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posted by
martyb
on Monday October 29 2018, @08:15AM
from the social-commentary-on-social-media dept.
from the social-commentary-on-social-media dept.
The social network gab.com is apparently going down on Monday, October 29th at 09:00 ET. Their ISP has terminated their services, ostensibly because Robert Bowers, the Pittsburgh mass shooting suspect, had made offensive posts on Gab.
To get this out of the way: I have mixed feelings about Gab, more specifically, about the founders. However, the idea that some social network somewhere should refuse to censor anything that is not outright illegal? This is good. Social media has become the modern "market square", and free speech should be guaranteed, even if the platforms are technically private.
If you want free speech, you apparently don't want to be in the U.S.
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Social Media and the Pittsburgh Shooter: Gab.com Going Down
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We lie loudest when we lie to ourselves.
-- Eric Hoffer
(Score: 3, Informative) by Phoenix666 on Monday October 29 2018, @01:10PM (19 children)
His posts indicate he is a real anti-Semite, and that he hates Trump because he reckons Trump is not an anti-Semite.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 0, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 29 2018, @01:54PM (2 children)
He hates Trump because he thinks Trump isn't extreme enough. It's novel, though disturbing, that a man who stokes his base by promising to punish people his base hates is disliked by someone who doesn't think Trump hates enough. Like my dad always says "People are complicated."
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Phoenix666 on Monday October 29 2018, @04:51PM (1 child)
Trump has not espoused anti-Semitism. He has been the most pro-Israel of recent presidents. He moved the US embassy to Jerusalem, which his predecessors feared to do because it would enrage Palestinians. Trump's daughter also married a Jew and converted to Judaism. He has also won several awards from Jewish organizations.
We can't lay this literal anti-Semitic attack at Trump's doorstep.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by jmorris on Monday October 29 2018, @07:29PM
Don't even try reason with these people. Orange man bad. Another man did a bad thing. The bad Orange man responsible. That is about the limit of their arguments. When a supposed (guy was registered Dim by screenshots I saw until after he was arrested, his social media was following lots Lefties and his pro Trump posts thus only occasionally getting a like and looked machine generated, etc. lots of alarm bells) Trump supporter sends fake prank bombs it is Trump's fault. Now a guy who hates Trump shoots up a joint and that too is Trump's fault. Bernie Bro shoots Rep Scalise and guess what, that was Trump's fault too for "creating a climate of hate." So if you piss off the left and they shoot you it is your fault for pissing them off, that is really all you need to know.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by hemocyanin on Monday October 29 2018, @02:55PM (15 children)
Shooter is an asshole who posted crap without threats on Gab. Gab deplatormed.
Mail bomber is an asshole who posted stuff, including a threat to a specific person, on Twitter. Twitter is fine.
https://reason.com/blog/2018/10/29/gab-shuts-down-after-synagogue-shooting [reason.com]
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Phoenix666 on Monday October 29 2018, @05:05PM (14 children)
It is funny how that works.
"Adversity doesn't build your character. Adversity reveals your character." That's a bit of what we're seeing here. People who only support free speech when they agree with what is being said are no champions of free speech at all.
We have an Establishment-driven narrative that is trying to convince everyone that censorship is good, and that Free Speech is actually bad. The Establishment is deeply threatened by free speech, because people who are free to speak their minds are difficult to control. Control, of course, is the key to the power and wealth that the Establishment enjoys.
I'm sitting here, a progressive all my life, watching aghast as the people I thought would fight to the death for the freedom of expression, bully, shame, and coerce interlocutors into silence. I'm watching them mount character assassination campaigns, one after the other, with the mainstream media cheering them on. I just can't believe it.
Yesterday I watched footage online of several hundred young black conservatives meeting with Trump in the Whitehouse, thinking to myself they were the bravest people in America for doing that, and instead of celebrating their courage to speak their minds the mainstream media pretended like it didn't even happen.
People who identify as conservatives or right-wing have been calling progressives hateful and bigoted for years, and I always dismissed that as "pot calling the kettle black," but the way progressives have been behaving the last two years is playing right into that frame. That is, progressives are making that case for them. They should stop that immediately.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 29 2018, @05:17PM
You should not be surprised. The Democratic Party is a right-wing party, and the SJWs and their friends in #metoo are a right-wing authoritarian movement. The only confusion is that the press keeps printing Democratic Party propaganda saying that it somehow represents progressives, and we mistake the propaganda for journalism.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by jmorris on Monday October 29 2018, @07:39PM (12 children)
Notice how many dogs aren't barking here.
Where is the EFF? Weren't they founded for exactly this fight? The closest one can find on their website is a bland statement of non-support for corporate censorship. Not opposition you understand, because the effort is lead by "friends" they work with on so many other issues. So they expect virtue points for not getting on board the censorship train. But they won't oppose it either. Because no enemies on the Left, no friends on the Right.
Where is the ACLU? They would defend Nazis when they could use them to sow chaos in quiet Middle American towns. Now? Crickets. Their website is all in on the upcoming elections and reminding everyone that Orange Man Bad.
Where is the media outrage at this silencing of a social media startup? Cheering it on of course, it is $current_year, where else do you think they would be.
Where are the titans of Silicon Valley, defending the Internet against aggression and censorship that WILL (Hell, already is) getting them too? Cheering it on of course, it is $current_year and freedom to censor for corporations is the new freedom.
The entire "Free Speech Movement" basically vanished as soon as the Intersectional SJWs appeared because the two aren't compatible. $current_year has moved beyond free speech.
(Score: 2) by termigator on Monday October 29 2018, @07:51PM (4 children)
The difference here it is a corporate issue and not a governmental one wrt organizations like the ACLU. I.e. It is a matter of contract law between businesses and not between citizens and the government.
This does highlight the modern day problem that speech is now more governed by corporations and not the government, so the First Ammendment is not applicable. The challenge of the day is how do we promote free speech, including speech we may not agree with, vis-a-vis the ever increasing power corporations have on what gets heard?
(Score: 4, Insightful) by curunir_wolf on Monday October 29 2018, @08:07PM (2 children)
That's the narrative, but not the full reality. For instance, Facebook is looking to the Atlantic Council to help them censor content [fortune.com]. What's wrong with that? A private entity involved with a corporation? Well, the Atlantic Council receives a lot of funding from a lot of US Government agencies and divisions. So who is really doing the censorship? The argument can certainly be made that it IS the US Government censoring voices.
Still, don't expect the ACLU or the EFF or the SPLC to make that point. Their own funding sources like the censorship that's happening.
I am a crackpot
(Score: 2) by hemocyanin on Monday October 29 2018, @08:13PM (1 child)
Correct. The whole "private company v. government agency" thing is just a convenient excuse when corporate control of the levers of government is so widespread.
In A Corporatist System Of Government, Corporate Censorship Is State Censorship [caitlinjohnstone.com]
(Score: 2) by curunir_wolf on Monday October 29 2018, @08:58PM
Another Caitlin fan! There's a lot I disagree with her about, but we're very in sync on the establishment media.
I am a crackpot
(Score: 1, Troll) by jmorris on Monday October 29 2018, @08:13PM
Don't try that crap on me, we all know it is a lie. Antifa is a terror organization. This is not debatable. The definition of terrorism is violence directed at civilian populations to induce them to vote in a certain way. That is the stated purpose of Antifa, therefore it is a terrorist organization. But it has a website, imagine a similar attempt to deplatform them. YOU would be defending them, EFF and ACLU would be defending their quantum Right to hosting that would spring into existence for that one argument only and disappear just as quickly back into corporate freedom to be SJWs when you returned to a discussion of deplatforming the Right.
(Score: 2) by Joe Desertrat on Monday October 29 2018, @09:53PM (6 children)
You seem to conflate free speech with freedom of consequences from speech. If you spout off crap that has no other purpose other than to promote harm to others, you are going to get smacked down. This has been the case probably since the dawn of man, as most primitive societies treated that sort of nonsense harshly. No legitimate business today wants to be associated with it, and if a business becomes aware of such activity they are likely going to disassociate themselves from it.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 29 2018, @10:54PM (2 children)
You don't see a problem with the fact that governments and corporations are working closely with one another to determine what should and should not be allowed on these corporate platforms? You don't see a problem with the fact that corporations are capable of controlling what people see and hear to this extent? Do you want to unleash the power of the free market when it comes to censorship, even though you'd be skeptical of corporations in nearly any other context? Then you are short-sighted.
When traditional platforms are restrictive, it's common advise to go start your own platform and make your own rules. Yet, when someone does that, the web host can cut them off, and they have to hope they can find another one. So much for a free and open web. And thank you, dear sir, for supporting multi-billion dollar corporations; they truly need the help.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 29 2018, @11:06PM
Nope, don't see a problem. Now if we could just get jmorris to shut up about the SJW convergence in his mom's basement, that would be an achievement!
(Score: 2) by Joe Desertrat on Tuesday October 30 2018, @10:26PM
How is the government involved with this? I see that the ISP shut them down, I have seen nothing that shows the government was involved. It's an unfortunate fact of life on the internet, one I learned some twenty years ago, that if you use someone else's service as a platform you are completely at their mercy as far as your continued existence there goes. They are not going to expend any time and money to defend you.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by hemocyanin on Monday October 29 2018, @11:34PM (1 child)
The consequences of Gab letting this guy spout is that we know the motive and can up the charges. In contrast, you seem to think the consequence of unpopular speech should be censorship which makes your opening sentence a real twisting of logic, better phrased thus: "do not conflate free speech with the freedom of government/corporations to censor your unpopular speech." Which is fine and good while the government/Twitter/Facebook/Google all have pure motives (LOL).
I'm not writing this as some right wing nazi-sympathizer -- I'm Jewish -- I'm writing this as one who looks at the media situation we have right now and cringes in fear about what the future holds for anyone with unpopular views or who wishes to dissent from whatever direction the media and government decide we should be going. Crap like that is how we got the Espionage Act, it being a reaction to people protesting our involvement in WWI: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Espionage_Act_of_1917 [wikipedia.org]
(Score: 2) by takyon on Monday October 29 2018, @11:45PM
Hate crime charges are unnecessary. Charge him with the 11 murders and 6 attempted murders. That puts him away forever. In fact, they are going for the death penalty.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 30 2018, @05:18AM
That's a load of bull. The two go hand in hand. By that metric, North Korea is a bastion of free speech, talking bad about Dear Leader has no other purpose than to disrupt the harmonious social fabric that has been perfected by the revolution! Legitimizing violence against people you disagree with defeats the point of having free speech at all, I thought you people were smart.
You think too small, business is apolitical. Money from terrorists, money from moral busybodies, money from government is still money. Are you going to personally inspect every commercially available product to ensure they have never ever associated with undesirables up to the N-th degree?