Stories
Slash Boxes
Comments

SoylentNews is people

posted by chromas on Monday October 29 2018, @05:32PM   Printer-friendly
from the if-it-walk-like-a-duck dept.

More Evidence Identifies China as The Source of Mysterious Ozone-Destroying Emissions

For years, a mystery puzzled environmental scientists. The world had banned the use of many ozone-depleting compounds in 2010. So why were global emission levels [DOI: 10.1038/s41586-018-0106-2] [DX] still so high?

The picture started to clear up in June. That's when The New York Times published an investigation into the issue. China, the paper claimed, was to blame for these mystery emissions. Now it turns out the paper was probably right to point a finger.

In a paper [open, DOI: 10.1029/2018GL079500] [DX] published recently in the journal Geophysical Research Letters, an international team of researchers confirms that eastern China is the source of at least half of the 40,000 tonnes of carbon tetrachloride emissions currently entering the atmosphere each year. They figured this out using a combination of ground-based and airborne atmospheric concentration data from near the Korean peninsula.

Previously: Someone, Somewhere, is Making a Banned Chemical that Destroys the Ozone Layer
Illegal Chinese Refrigerator Factories Are Selling Banned CFCs


Original Submission

 
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.
Display Options Threshold/Breakthrough Mark All as Read Mark All as Unread
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
  • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Monday October 29 2018, @08:08PM (14 children)

    by JoeMerchant (3937) on Monday October 29 2018, @08:08PM (#755321)

    Outlawed outsourcing by simple trade tariffs.

    There is nothing simple about a trade tariff, or outlawing something like outsourcing - particularly when you're a piddly local jurisdiction attempting to wrangle legions of multi-billion dollar multinational corporations.

    You can incentivize hiring local, which is almost as good, and much harder to circumvent (and lobby holes into) than tariffs.

    --
    🌻🌻 [google.com]
    Starting Score:    1  point
    Karma-Bonus Modifier   +1  

    Total Score:   2  
  • (Score: 2) by edIII on Monday October 29 2018, @08:53PM (13 children)

    by edIII (791) on Monday October 29 2018, @08:53PM (#755348)

    Then you need to make simple tariffs, at the top level (Federal), and if necessary, we need an Article 5 convention to put those tariffs into a Constitutional Amendment.

    The tariff really is simple. You don't leave it static. It is whatever it *needs* to be to eliminate the monetary benefit of choosing cheap 3rd world countries where the costs are a fraction of the U.S. If they bring in a widget, you check what a widget costs from the local manufacturers, take the lowest value, and make that the lowest possible cost of the widget. The difference between that cost and the foreign costs becomes the tariff. A whatchmacallit might have a different rate, but they're all dynamic rates.

    Make the whole purpose of the law to eliminate those benefits. One way or the other, that company is going to pay those costs and cannot escape them.

    It's either that are we outlaw outsourcing entirely. No tariffs required, because they are no imports.

    --
    Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 29 2018, @09:34PM (9 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 29 2018, @09:34PM (#755361)

      > Then you need to make simple tariffs

      You don't understand the power of lobbying, do you? Trump's tariffs have been "adjusted" all over the map already by powerful lobbies that want to protect their current "good thing".

      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by edIII on Tuesday October 30 2018, @12:22AM (8 children)

        by edIII (791) on Tuesday October 30 2018, @12:22AM (#755436)

        Translation: I don't understand the power of corruption.

        Bull-fucking-shit, I don't. I'm saying what we need to do to help the Middle Class. However, the only advocates for the Middle Class, or Lobbyists, ARE OUR FUCKING SENATORS IN THE FIRST PLACE. So the people who should be representing the interests of THE PEOPLE, end up representing the interests of those with $ONEY.

        If the Middle Class, and average blue-collar worker were fairly represented, there is no chance in fucking hell we would all agree to kill ourselves by competing with 3rd world shitholes that have sweat shops, child labor, warlords, etc. You can't compete with those places for price, it is simply not possible.

        That's what tariffs are really all about. Making the American Worker no longer in competition with foreign ones. It's not a fucking competition, it's our fucking lives. Of course we're going to lose child labor, of course we're going to lose to sweat shops, of course we're going to lose to China the way they treat their workers.

        Take away all competition forcefully, and you will see America start to heal again, with factory UNION jobs coming back to U.S soil. The strongest we ever were in this country was when UNIONS WERE STRONG. We were winning, until the rich and corrupt, just as you said, used lobbyists to corrupt our government and allow them to escape the unions.

        --
        Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 30 2018, @12:50AM (7 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 30 2018, @12:50AM (#755443)

          Wolf-PAC [wolf-pac.com]?

          • (Score: 2) by edIII on Tuesday October 30 2018, @01:30AM (6 children)

            by edIII (791) on Tuesday October 30 2018, @01:30AM (#755462)

            Neat. I'm all for an Article V Convention. Since it truly is bipartisan, most people here should be too. At 75%, that's a high threshold ensuring bipartisan amendments.

            Thanks for sharing.

            --
            Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
            • (Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday October 30 2018, @12:54PM (5 children)

              by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday October 30 2018, @12:54PM (#755611) Journal

              Neat. I'm all for an Article V Convention. Since it truly is bipartisan, most people here should be too. At 75%, that's a high threshold ensuring bipartisan amendments.

              What would be the point of the exercise? Said corruption is not due to widespread constitutional flaws (at best, you can point to one or two election process improvements) and the convention would be subject to the same corrupt processes as the current government.

              • (Score: 2) by edIII on Tuesday October 30 2018, @09:13PM (4 children)

                by edIII (791) on Tuesday October 30 2018, @09:13PM (#755799)

                The point would be the attempt to take back our lives, and to organize as a people once again. Your point is not lost on me either. Trump and has shitbags are discussing abrogating the 14th right now. Graham is backing it with legislation, but the Orange Anus is boasting that "they're telling me I can do it with an executive order". They're talking about getting around a Constitutional Amendment as it if it nothing.

                We need to do something though, and I think you can agree, that an Article V convention is a more productive use of our time than divisive civil war.

                Finally, I'm not convinced the convention would suffer from the same corrupt processes. It has never be done before (IIRC), and the sheer level of involvement of the people ensures whatever they do will be watched and scrutinized. If the corruption is too apparent, than all hope in the system may evaporate.... and at that point..... I dunno. If it failed, I would openly advocate for civil war. Our government would have failed us utterly, and completely, and not deserve to live one second longer.

                --
                Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
                • (Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday October 31 2018, @01:00AM (3 children)

                  by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday October 31 2018, @01:00AM (#755882) Journal

                  The point would be the attempt to take back our lives, and to organize as a people once again.

                  The point here is that it's baking in failure. If things are that corrupt, then any constitutional convention is easily subverted by the same powers. You have to deal with the corruption or you can't progress via open ended constitutional modification.

                  And that brings us to the second problem, namely that there isn't much to gain by constitutional convention. It's the wrong tool.

                  We need to do something though, and I think you can agree, that an Article V convention is a more productive use of our time than divisive civil war.

                  At that point, I'm not seeing it. Even if things went exactly as desired, it's a case of passing laws demanding parties obey the law. If they're already completely ignoring existing constitutional law, then they'll ignore this as well.

                  • (Score: 2) by edIII on Wednesday October 31 2018, @01:20AM (2 children)

                    by edIII (791) on Wednesday October 31 2018, @01:20AM (#755889)

                    Then, pray tell, what is your solution to getting rid of the corruption? The status-quo doesn't fucking work anymore. I spent 20 years of my life not really paying attention to my country, and it died. I'm not being hyperbolic, it DIED. If things are truly as corrupt as you say they are, than you cannot disagree that true American principles of freedom and representation did in fact die.

                    If these people ignore the Constitution, then ignored an Article V convention to amend it, then they are not properly representing the country. We could impeach, but if they don't act like representatives anymore, why would they listen or even start the process? Especially amongst themselves.

                    I'm sorry, but if things are as bad as you say they are, then outright revolution is appropriate and needed. It's a valid tool for removing corruption so entrenched that more civilized and ostensibly legal processes are simply unable to mitigate. However, not everybody is ready for civil war this very second like I am. There is a growing group of people very dedicated to the idea you dismiss as naive. 5 states out of 34. Those people are still dedicated to making it happen, and organizing. That's unarguably better than 10's of the thousands of people prepping for civil war, mailing bombs, etc.

                    When civilized processes fail, when morals and integrity fails, you are left with violence and civil war. If all of those people are supporting organized change, and bipartisan change at that, then I will support them. Quite frankly, I think they deserve yours too. Your voice should be heard with everyone else's when we discuss these new amendments.

                    All of that better than violence, and I know you don't support that.

                    --
                    Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
                    • (Score: 2) by Pav on Wednesday October 31 2018, @04:33AM

                      by Pav (114) on Wednesday October 31 2018, @04:33AM (#755929)

                      I don't think anyone knows the solution... but I know what the solution isn't - inaction.

                          There's a lot of interesting things being tried at the moment. Political action, both inside and outside major parties (and this is not just in the USA). Also economic heretics are being widely listened to such as Steve Keen and Yanis Varoufakis... I believe Steve Keen even advises the UK central bank these days. Voices within the IMF are even coming out against the neoliberal order. I'd advise listening to someone who doesn't get enough airtime (probably because he speaks a rarified breed of academic language) : Roberto Mangabiera Unger although this primer [youtube.com] is a much more concise and intelligible intoduction to his ideas. I read his prescription for "radical innovation" in the economy as a blending of Free Software methods into places outside the I.T world... maybe some kind of open-source-developed worker-owned-Coop/franchise model.

                          I do think the Free Software world has some important lessons (both positive and negative) for the wider world. There certainly is people-power there, and it has attracted tech-media buyouts, perception management, unaccountable foundations and free riders.

                    • (Score: 1) by khallow on Friday November 09 2018, @06:04AM

                      by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Friday November 09 2018, @06:04AM (#759738) Journal
                      Sorry about the late reply.

                      Then, pray tell, what is your solution to getting rid of the corruption? The status-quo doesn't fucking work anymore. I spent 20 years of my life not really paying attention to my country, and it died. I'm not being hyperbolic, it DIED. If things are truly as corrupt as you say they are, than you cannot disagree that true American principles of freedom and representation did in fact die.

                      Cool story bro, but the problem is that you changed not the country. Corruption will always be with us because we always have conflicts of interest between what is good for us and what is a net good collectively.

                      If these people ignore the Constitution, then ignored an Article V convention to amend it, then they are not properly representing the country. We could impeach, but if they don't act like representatives anymore, why would they listen or even start the process? Especially amongst themselves.

                      Obviously, the solution is to pass a "this-time-I-mean-it" law, amirite? My point here is that you aren't fixing anything.

                      I'm sorry, but if things are as bad as you say they are, then outright revolution is appropriate and needed. It's a valid tool for removing corruption so entrenched that more civilized and ostensibly legal processes are simply unable to mitigate. However, not everybody is ready for civil war this very second like I am. There is a growing group of people very dedicated to the idea you dismiss as naive. 5 states out of 34. Those people are still dedicated to making it happen, and organizing. That's unarguably better than 10's of the thousands of people prepping for civil war, mailing bombs, etc.

                      And what would be the point of the revolution? My view is that this is insane. What is the point of giving government more power to do this sort of thing?

                      The only economic problem the US really had over the past half century was that developing world labor hooked up to the global trade networks. That's it. The rest is self-inflicted - causing more problems to address some minor effect of that globalism (or of the destructive "fixes"). That includes a good portion of the corruption and the budding police state. If instead, 300 million people had manned up and sacrificed a bit for their future, it'd be a different story.

    • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Tuesday October 30 2018, @01:58AM

      by JoeMerchant (3937) on Tuesday October 30 2018, @01:58AM (#755472)

      simple tariffs

      Let me repeat: there is no such thing as simple tariffs - tariffs are penalties, taxes, things to be ducked and avoided by all means possible, legal, illegal, and infinitely creative. Those who impose tariffs invite the taxed to make fools of them.

      On the flip side: incentives are sought by people and given by the authorities. One may attempt to defraud the authorities to obtain incentives not deserved, but if the rules of incentive are simple enough, that should be easily audited and corrected when abused. When one offers incentives, those incentivized seek them out and willingly provide information about and insight into the acts being incentivised, obfuscation and subterfuge are ineffective at cheating incentives.

      The tariff really is simple. You don't leave it static. It is whatever it *needs* to be to eliminate the monetary benefit of choosing cheap 3rd world countries where the costs are a fraction of the U.S. If they bring in a widget, you check...

      Nothing about that is simple. If you turn this dynamic, easily defrauded adjustable rate scheme on its head as an incentive, then you put the onus of researching and documenting the appropriate incentive rates onto those seeking the incentive, instead of attempting to use the tariff income to finance a department of (easily fooled, defrauded and bribed) auditors. If you, as a domestic businessman feel that you should be incentivized to compete with country X making widget Y, then you show how your costs of materials and labor are necessarily higher domestically and how much the government should pay you for making widget Y using domestically sourced materials and labor. If you make a good case, then you get the incentive and should be able to market widget Y at a competitive price with those produced in X - much like food production is subsidized in the US today.

      A version of this already goes on with minority and female owned businesses bidding for government contracts, how about instead of just directing benefits at token minority figurehead company owners we start directing the benefits toward businesses who demonstrate (prove) that they are paying competitive wages to their workers and direct these benefits toward those workers? Why not? Look at the U.S.' currently elected leadership and tell me if "benefits to the workers" seems remotely plausible as an actual delivered legislative change.

      --
      🌻🌻 [google.com]
    • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Tuesday October 30 2018, @02:02AM

      by JoeMerchant (3937) on Tuesday October 30 2018, @02:02AM (#755474)

      we outlaw outsourcing entirely. No tariffs required, because they are no imports.

      Better shut off the internet while you're at it. That same job I worked in Texas while living in Florida I could have as easily worked from anyplace with strong enough internet to support a Skype call. That was strong six figures of "exported money" in exchange for delivered services, and if I felt like it I could have relocated to Mexico where that money would have supported a much richer lifestyle.

      --
      🌻🌻 [google.com]
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 30 2018, @11:05AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 30 2018, @11:05AM (#755566)

      No, you make trade agreements that force other countries to protect the environment. Seems a lot simpler than your "simple tariff". What "simple tariff" does is make everyone poorer for no reason whatsoever.

      Anyway, it's quite idiotic for America to push tariffs after becoming the defacto world reserve currency. The idiot-in-chief doesn't understand how America is becoming a loser as soon as others start to turn away from the dollar. The only friend America has remaining is inertia. Sooner rather than later China (or Euro if it gets its act together) will replace USD and America will become the has-been Russia - large military and nothing else.