SoylentNews is people
SoylentNews
Submitted via IRC for Bytram
Humanity has wiped out 60% of animal populations since 1970, report finds.
Humanity has wiped out 60% of mammals, birds, fish and reptiles since 1970, leading the world's foremost experts to warn that the annihilation of wildlife is now an emergency that threatens civilisation.
The new estimate of the massacre of wildlife is made in a major report produced by WWF and involving 59 scientists from across the globe. It finds that the vast and growing consumption of food and resources by the global population is destroying the web of life, billions of years in the making, upon which human society ultimately depends for clean air, water and everything else.
"We are sleepwalking towards the edge of a cliff" said Mike Barrett, executive director of science and conservation at WWF. "If there was a 60% decline in the human population, that would be equivalent to emptying North America, South America, Africa, Europe, China and Oceania. That is the scale of what we have done."
"This is far more than just being about losing the wonders of nature, desperately sad though that is," he said. "This is actually now jeopardising the future of people. Nature is not a 'nice to have' – it is our life-support system."
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Thexalon on Wednesday October 31 2018, @03:48PM (18 children)
We have to address whether it's "people" who killed off all these species, or particular industries. Generalizing it to "people" tends to absolve those responsible by blaming, say, random poor Africans rather than people who made billions wrecking the area of Africa those random poor Africans live.
If I had to hazard a guess as to the big offenders:
- Agriculture businesses who encourage slash-and-burn in rainforests in order to get cheaper produce in the winter and cheaper beef year-round.
- Chemical companies who produced fun things like DDT.
- The lumber industry, for clear-cutting forests.
- The coal mining industry, for turning entire mountains into wastelands.
- The oil industry, for wantonly spilling and leaking their materials all over the place.
Throw in a bit of global climate change, poaching for ivory and trophies and such, and you have the makings of massive problems.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 0, Redundant) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 31 2018, @04:00PM (5 children)
Everything is interconnected. Those industries don't exist just for the fun of it; they do the things they do, because they are being paid by "The People" to do those things—including the random poor Africans.
Therefore, the only way to solve this issue is to figure out as precisely as possible who has to pay for what, and the most self-sustaining and humane way to make that calculation is Capitalism. We need much more precise, much finer-grained property rights.
(Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 31 2018, @08:33PM
You will repeat it while in a gas chamber line.
(Score: 2) by Joe Desertrat on Thursday November 01 2018, @09:05AM (1 child)
If one wants to insist capitalism is the way to go, this is the crux of the problem. As of now far too many costs, from top to bottom, get passed along as external costs, ignored by those who profit from it and ignored by society in general until it causes a massive problem. If we build the actual cost into the things we use, most people will be forced to cut back on the excesses of their lifestyles. And no, despite the hysteria of those who oppose cutting back, we don't have to resort to reducing our lifestyles to that of hunter-gatherers, simply continuing to strive to increase efficiency and reduce waste will effect a change. Paying the full cost of what we use will force that if we are unwilling to do so voluntarily.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 01 2018, @03:48PM
Your comment is what is meant by the text you left out of the quote: "We need much more precise, much finer-grained property rights."
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 01 2018, @02:02PM (1 child)
true, true. soldiers fighting in overseas oil-rich deserts should automatically get some discount at the pump station back home ...
(Score: 2) by requerdanos on Friday November 02 2018, @05:02PM
Last time I was overseas carrying a rifle and ammunition in an oil-rich desert, I got a nice bump in pay for "hazardous duty."
Of course, since in that oil-rich 140°F desert, I was provided a canvas tent, a cot, and a cold-weather sleeping bad to aid in sleeping, I got a nice reduction in pay via the elimination of my "Basic allowance for Quarters" pay.
The BAQ was just slightly larger than the amount of hazardous duty pay, meaning my check went *down*. My family back home still had to pay the same rent as before, of course....
On the plus side, all the gasoline we used in-country was free, as I understand it, courtesy of the Saudi government. It was more pinkish than orange and smelled faintly sweet, which I assumed was because we were consuming it closer to where it was grown.
Despite the overrated adventure and excitement, on the whole, it was not a financial win.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 31 2018, @04:03PM
Don't worry. Life has survived many global catastrophes, it will also survive humanity.
Oh, you hoped for humans to survive, too?
(Score: -1, Spam) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 31 2018, @04:52PM
"Comment Below Threshold"? I didn't write that! Time to repost!
Everything is interconnected. Those industries don't exist just for the fun of it; they do the things they do, because they are being paid by "The People" to do those things—including the random poor Africans.
Therefore, the only way to solve this issue is to figure out as precisely as possible who has to pay for what, and the most self-sustaining and humane way to make that calculation is Capitalism. We need much more precise, much finer-grained property rights.
(Score: -1, Spam) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 31 2018, @05:37PM
"Comment Below Threshold"? I didn't write that! Time to repost!
Everything is interconnected. Those industries don't exist just for the fun of it; they do the things they do, because they are being paid by "The People" to do those things—including the random poor Africans.
Therefore, the only way to solve this issue is to figure out as precisely as possible who has to pay for what, and the most self-sustaining and humane way to make that calculation is Capitalism. We need much more precise, much finer-grained property rights.
(Score: -1, Spam) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 31 2018, @06:21PM
"Comment Below Threshold"? I didn't write that! Time to repost!
Everything is interconnected. Those industries don't exist just for the fun of it; they do the things they do, because they are being paid by "The People" to do those things—including the random poor Africans.
Therefore, the only way to solve this issue is to figure out as precisely as possible who has to pay for what, and the most self- sustaining and humane way to make that calculation is Capitalism. We need much more precise, much finer-grained property rights.
(Score: -1, Redundant) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 31 2018, @07:33PM (2 children)
"Comment Below Threshold"? I didn't write that! Time to repost!
Everything is interconnected. Those industries don't exist just for the fun of it; they do the things they do, because they are being paid by "The People" to do those things—including the random poor Africans.
Therefore, the only way to solve this issue is to figure out as precisely as possible who has to pay for what, and the most self- sustaining and humane way to make that calculation is Capitalism. We need much more precise, much finer-grained property rights.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 01 2018, @02:38AM (1 child)
Hey dummy, lower your threshold -- there are controls near the top of every thread here. The only reason you don't see things below the threshold is because of *your* personal setting (you may be using the default).
I always browse at -1 and see everything. And I don't need to see your stuff more than once.
(Score: 2) by requerdanos on Friday November 02 2018, @06:01PM
+1 informative
-1 Offtopic
--
0
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday October 31 2018, @07:35PM
Don't forget urban sprawl. In the US, at least, that ranks up there close to the causes you've already named.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by JoeMerchant on Thursday November 01 2018, @02:24AM (2 children)
They never stopped producing "fun things." They have gotten better at spin control.
That's like comparing apples and strange quarks. Sure, poachers are a problem what needs fixin, preferably Capt. Malcom Reynolds style, but... if you're looking at the big picture, the advertising agencies, media (TV/movies) and urban planners who drove popular demand for automobiles and McMansions in the suburbs have done many orders of magnitude more damage to the ecosystem than all the poachers of the last 4 centuries combined.
No, assignment of blame is neither required, nor terribly productive. What we need to do is reverse the trends driving us towards oblivion, whether that involves villification and public beheadings of those who profited from the institutions of the past or not really isn't important at all.
Agriculture, Chemicals, Lumber, Coal, Oil, Steel, Nuclear, Computers, Communications, and dozens of other industries contributed to the ecological destruction of the past two centuries - they can also help to stem the tide and get us out of the mess that they helped to create. EVERYTHING needs to scale back and make clean, healthy, liveable space for the ecosystems that are rapidly collapsing, but nothing in particular needs to be banned or returned to Amish levels of development.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Thexalon on Thursday November 01 2018, @05:20PM (1 child)
The point of assigning blame is to rebut any charges of "It's so *unfair* that you're making so-and-so pay to address this problem." Nope: You did this, you made a bunch of cash off of it, you need to pay to fix it.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Thursday November 01 2018, @08:16PM
Economically speaking, whether you print money from the treasury or pry it from the deep coffers of the rich hoarders of cash, there's not a whole lot of difference to the world economy's reaction to the change. Penalizing Darren W. Woods $50M just means that he has $50M less free cash on hand to direct the people of the world to do other things, you might call it poetic justice but in terms of actually getting things done, I'd rather move the projects forward on spec rather than waiting for the results of a witch hunt to produce some numbers in a spreadsheet saying that the projects are funded.
It is much more important to do the things that need doing (which, in this case, mostly involves making sure that things aren't being done...) rather than have a list of those deemed responsible for the sad state of current affairs.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: -1, Spam) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 01 2018, @03:43PM
"Comment Below Threshold"? I didn't write that! Time to repost!
Everything is interconnected. Those industries don't exist just for the fun of it; they do the things they do, because they are being paid by "The People" to do those things—including the random poor Africans.
Therefore, the only way to solve this issue is to figure out as precisely as possible who has to pay for what, and the most self- sustaining and humane way to make that calculation is Capitalism. We need much more precise, much finer-grained property rights.