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posted by martyb on Friday November 02 2018, @12:36AM   Printer-friendly
from the pi(x)=substr("3.141592653589793238462643383279502884197169399375105820974944592307816406286208",1,x) dept.

Recently there was an article discussing how poorly today's Silicon Valley approaches the question of testing their information technology candidates' intelligence.

If you were a hiring manager, how would YOU test YOUR candidate's intelligence?

I was mulling this over recently, when, for unrelated reasons, I found myself researching algorithms to be used in calculating 'pi' (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Pi_algorithms).

As it so happens, there are currently 15 known algorithms for pi. At least one of the algorithms can be used to generate arbitrary digits of pi (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bailey–Borwein–Plouffe_formula), and that might be relevant. (I'm not a mathematician, or a programmer, as such - I'm a sysadmin - but even those who are will likely be surprised to learn that such a thing is possible. For more information, please see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spigot_algorithm.)

And so I would ask my candidate to pretend that he was responsible for designing a library of math functions, and to offer me an opinion on which algorithm should be implemented, in our hypothetical library of routines, to calculate 'pi'.

Some prior experience in programming is required - you have to have written your own functions. No programming languages are required. No coding. Not even pseudo-code! No right answers. No wrong answers. Just pure thought.

You don't need to be a programmer to take this test and succeed. You don't need to do anything on a whiteboard. You just need to be somewhat mathematically inclined ... somewhat literate ... and, a nerd.

A real nerd. Not one of these fake Silicon Valley nerds. You need to have books on your shelves. Not DVDs.

Points for asking what the library will be used for. The value 22/7 might work great for roughing out the roof of a gazebo. Not so good for calculating orbits!

Points for implementing multiple algorithms and letting the user decide for themselves.

No time limit, no pressure ... but I would want to hear back from my candidates, within a day or two, via email.

Compare my test to the puerile tests involving balls, and strings, and calculating 2^64 in your head, in real time, and ask yourself which of these methods REALLY exposes intelligence?

Now, you're in charge.

What would you do?


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  • (Score: 3, Disagree) by The Mighty Buzzard on Friday November 02 2018, @01:11AM (9 children)

    by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Friday November 02 2018, @01:11AM (#756691) Homepage Journal

    If I were using your test, I'd hire the one who suggested something similar to the one in the dept. There are very few cases where calculating a value that's known to thousands of places beyond what you need is going to be a better solution than hardcoding a value and taking as many significant digits as you need from it.

    Personally, I'd use something similar but asking them to solve a problem that could either be answered with something extremely complex and error prone or highly non-technical, possibly even good old analog meatspace, and not hire anyone who wanted to Rube Goldberg the shit out of simple problems.

    Example: The break room for the security guys is right behind their desk in the lobby but they can't see what's going on out there while they're on break. Entirely too many people would start saying things like IP cameras and PoE and various other technical things. I'd hire the guy who said put a window in the break room.

    --
    My rights don't end where your fear begins.
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  • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Arik on Friday November 02 2018, @01:19AM (8 children)

    by Arik (4543) on Friday November 02 2018, @01:19AM (#756697) Journal
    "There are very few cases where calculating a value that's known to thousands of places beyond what you need is going to be a better solution than hardcoding a value and taking as many significant digits as you need from it."

    This is just what I was thinking. It's normally best to hard-code constants, at an appropriate level of precision. I'm having a hard time imagining why one would want the program to recalculate it each time used, or even once. It shouldn't be changing.

    "I'd hire the guy who said put a window in the break room."

    Doesn't it defeat the purpose of giving them a break, to put in a window and expect them to keep watching?
    --
    If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
    • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Friday November 02 2018, @01:27AM (3 children)

      by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Friday November 02 2018, @01:27AM (#756700) Homepage Journal

      It's a hypothetical situation for the purposes of gauging someone's intelligence. Don't go overthinking irrelevant aspects.

      --
      My rights don't end where your fear begins.
      • (Score: 3, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 02 2018, @02:21AM (2 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 02 2018, @02:21AM (#756722)

        It's pretty darn relevant when the question posed is idiotic. It's clear this hypothetical or real hiring manager isn't as smart as he thinks he is if he's posing a question like this -- particularly when he says he'd give points for asking about applications and then makes it clear that 22/7 might be enough for some applications.

        Yes, 22/7 is enough precision for some applications of pi but the set of applications where you could use it or even pi to 10 or 20 digits is grossly different from the set of applications where you might actually need to calculate pi (particularly to arbitrary digits).

        All this summary told me is that this guy is an imbecile for posing an awful hypothetical and then acting like someone should be given bonus points for treating it like a real-world situation in ways that make no sense.

        If I were the manager of this hiring manager, I'd find someone else for the job.

        • (Score: 0, Flamebait) by The Mighty Buzzard on Friday November 02 2018, @02:37AM (1 child)

          by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Friday November 02 2018, @02:37AM (#756727) Homepage Journal

          You're either replying to the wrong comment or rambling incoherently. Try again.

          --
          My rights don't end where your fear begins.
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 02 2018, @10:39PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 02 2018, @10:39PM (#757113)

            Different AC here, but since you invited more incoherent rambling, I'd like to explore hiring the guy that would propose putting a window in my cubicle farm. He'll be here on Monday, from what I gather, so I'll be working remotely (long story, but there will be a lot of other people here, as well, and parking is already a nightmare...). Anyway, if all goes well, there may be windows for everyone in a few years, but we can't count on that.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 02 2018, @03:00PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 02 2018, @03:00PM (#756869)

      Doesn't it defeat the purpose of giving them a break, to put in a window and expect them to keep watching?

      My answer to the question involved a one way mirror type window. Solves both of your problems.

      • (Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 02 2018, @08:10PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 02 2018, @08:10PM (#757047)

        The security guards are on a break. Given that they shouldn't be expected to keep watch on a break, how does a one-way window help?

    • (Score: 2) by acid andy on Friday November 02 2018, @07:50PM (1 child)

      by acid andy (1683) on Friday November 02 2018, @07:50PM (#757032) Homepage Journal

      Doesn't it defeat the purpose of giving them a break, to put in a window and expect them to keep watching?

      Yes. Stagger their break times instead. You might need to hire an extra person but if so, you didn't have enough to begin with.

      --
      If a cat has kittens, does a rat have rittens, a bat bittens and a mat mittens?
      • (Score: 2) by toddestan on Saturday November 03 2018, @07:41PM

        by toddestan (4982) on Saturday November 03 2018, @07:41PM (#757365)

        That's the right answer. If you only have one security guard, what happens when he has to go to the restroom, or he's dealing with some situation and there's no one to man the desk? So you really need at least two security guards on the premise, which means you can now stagger their breaks. Problem solved.

        Or if you're like a lot of places, like where I work where security is more about making people feel good rather than any actual security, a window would work fine. People can see the security guard through the window so the station doesn't look unmanned, the security guard look out the window and see what's going on, and everyone is happy.