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from the does-the-pensioner-want-to-repay-his-benefits-and-go-back-to-work,-too? dept.
In the quixotic battle against old age, some people use skin care and spin class.
That’s not enough for Emile Ratelband, a 69-year-old who feels like he’s in his 40s. The Dutch pensioner is asking a court in his hometown of Arnhem, southeast of Amsterdam, to change his birth certificate so that it says he took his first breath on March 11, 1969, rather than on March 11, 1949. The judges heard his case Monday and promised they would render a verdict in the next several weeks.
Ratelband sees his request as no different from a petition to change his name or the gender he was assigned at birth — and isn’t bothered that this comparison might offend transgender people, whose medical needs have been recognized by the American Medical Association. It comes down to free will, he maintains.
I want to be recognized as an alien trapped in an Earthling's body.
(Score: 2) by requerdanos on Friday November 09 2018, @02:27PM (17 children)
Yes and no.
No, not like Rachel Dolezal, whose message is "If you say you are something, then you are that something." Let's try it--say it with me: "I am a venus flytrap." Did you become a venus flytrap?
Yes, on the other hand, because Ratelband is forcing the conversation in a very public way, to acknowledge that if the state recognizes that he "identifies" as being something he isn't (in this case, having an age that's only about 72% of its true value), then that doesn't make the state enlightened, or compassionate, or some such... It just makes the state wrong, clearly and unequivocally, and works to set some boundaries on the "everything is fluid" idea. Some things may change, but everything isn't fluid. This guy may be a genius.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 09 2018, @03:22PM (14 children)
Gender is a social construct and thus is subjective. A venus flytrap is a objective state.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by requerdanos on Friday November 09 2018, @04:00PM (9 children)
No; there's more to gender than its social interpretation (which is no less important than its other facets for many purposes). Gender is also a (not strictly binary) objective set of X and/or Y chromosomes; gender is also a (not strictly binary) objective but not necessarily fixed combination of organs such as mammary glands, ovaries, and testes. Some parts of what we call "gender" are objective and immutable, some objective and alterable, and some subjective. That's the point.
As is the count of revolutions of someone's home planet around its sun during his or her elapsed lifetime ("age").
The point is that some things are objective and some are subjective--meaning that "everything is fluid and is whatever anyone says it is" is and always has been nonsense. Some things, sure. Everything, no.
(Score: 3, Touché) by DeathMonkey on Friday November 09 2018, @10:12PM (3 children)
There are cases of people being born with ambiguous genders.
There are zero cases of people being born with ambiguous ages.
(Score: 2) by requerdanos on Friday November 09 2018, @11:46PM
This is the difference that makes me say that he "may be" a genius, and not he is clearly one.
He is claiming that age is fluid.
If we reasonably define our terms ("age" as revolutions around the sun, "fluid" as might change in the future), then he's dead wrong, and it's pretty easy to spot that.
He is further claiming that age is fluid, "no different from name or gender." That's trolling.
There are people who claim, wrongly, that everything's fluid and reality is whatever you say it is. This is wrong, objectively wrong, yet many people who point it out are called intolerant or worse.
Our friend here is claiming an extension of that nutty idea by saying that age, name, gender are equivalently fluid. It's top-notch trolling; he's meeting their nutty wrong with his own nutty wrong, the wrongness of which is even obvious to them.
Now, if "everything is fluid" then so is age.
Age isn't.
Therefore, "everything" isn't fluid.
That's kind of a reset. Now that we've established that not everything is fluid, we can talk rationally about what things are objective and fixed, and what things are subjective and fluid--without instantly being called intolerant. (Otherwise, the pro-everything-fluid people are being intolerant here by claiming that, well, yes everything but *that* is fluid and is whatever some random person says it is.)
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 10 2018, @04:32AM
There are people alive whose age is indeterminate, who themselves truly don't know.
(Score: 1) by DeVilla on Sunday November 11 2018, @12:42AM
It's interesting you say that. My dad took a stress test for a physical at work when he was 60. He was told the results showed a "physical age" in the 30s. In other words, his body was behaving like that of most people in their 30s. Many of his coworker who were in their 30s had results putting them at twice their age.
My dad was still 60 but depending on what you are using "age" to tell you, counting orbits might not be that useful.
(Score: 3, Informative) by NotSanguine on Friday November 09 2018, @10:44PM (4 children)
BZZT. Wrong. Thanks for playing.
Gender and sex, while often related are *not* the same thing.
cf.:
https://www.physiology.org/doi/full/10.1152/japplphysiol.00376.2005 [physiology.org]
https://stanmed.stanford.edu/2017spring/how-sex-and-gender-which-are-not-the-same-thing-influence-our-health.html [stanford.edu]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_and_gender_distinction [wikipedia.org]
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-how-and-why-sex-differences/201110/sex-difference-vs-gender-difference-oh-im-so-confused [psychologytoday.com]
Have a nice day!
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 09 2018, @11:35PM (3 children)
Can you show me something from the 1800s that demonstrates that the words gender and sex have different meaning please?
(Score: 2) by NotSanguine on Friday November 09 2018, @11:44PM (2 children)
Can you show me something from the 1800s that demonstrates that you're not a complete moron and troll?
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 4, Informative) by requerdanos on Friday November 09 2018, @11:50PM (1 child)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 10 2018, @10:48AM
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 09 2018, @07:57PM (1 child)
I disagree. The name, description, and apparently genetics, of a venus flytrap is human defined. Therefore, it is a social construct. Therefore, we can all be venus flytraps if we want to. It's called species fluidity and you are a cruel, cruel anonymous coward for triggering me with your abusive 'objective' state comment.
I subjectively welcome being subjected as a subjective subject to our subjucating subjectivist truth overlords, with of course, some amount of subjectivity.
(Score: 2) by requerdanos on Friday November 09 2018, @11:54PM
The genetics of the living thing to which that name and associated description are predominantly applied are something that come from without humanity; aliens, gods, angels, or demons could as easily recognize the sequence of its genome as can we. Our society does not determine it, nor does any part of humanity. When we refer to it, we simply recognize it, or fail to, as the case may be.
That's not how that works. Your disagreement is noted, however,
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 09 2018, @11:33PM (1 child)
Except gender is not a social construct and until someone very recently started screaming otherwise. Gender and sex were the same and meant the same thing.
If gender is indeed a social construct then what exactly do we hope to accomplish by giving trans people hormones?
You are a fucking nazi for silencing trans voices and denying their existence. Erasing them is just the same as shoving them in an oven.
(Score: 2) by requerdanos on Saturday November 10 2018, @01:24AM
For the first three sentences, I was right there with you. Not 100% agreement, perhaps, but together on essentials.
Then you kind of lost me in nazi voice oven shoving. What the heck???
(Score: 2) by Osamabobama on Friday November 09 2018, @07:06PM
Feed me, Seymour!
Appended to the end of comments you post. Max: 120 chars.
(Score: 2) by Pslytely Psycho on Saturday November 10 2018, @12:40AM
"I am a venus flytrap." Did you become a venus flytrap?"
"No, but my best friend did"....Dr. Johnny Fever
https://78.media.tumblr.com/67e8bf6780b1d1a0b6f5f708f535fefb/tumblr_ok64gp0Gan1uppk2eo1_500.gif [tumblr.com]
https://www.bing.com/th?id=OIP.PCs2j15fan3a-Lxrba6U7wHaFf&pid=Api&w=448&h=332&rs=1&p=0 [bing.com]
Alex Jones lawyer inspires new TV series: CSI Moron Division.