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Apple's MacBook Pro laptops have become increasingly unfriendly with Linux in recent years [...] But now with the latest Mac Mini systems employing Apple's T2 security chip, they too are likely to crush any Linux dreams.
At least until further notice, these new Apple systems sporting the T2 chip will not be able to boot Linux operating systems.
[...] By default, Microsoft Windows isn't even bootable on the new Apple systems until enabling support for Windows via the Boot Camp Assistant macOS software.
From Phoronix.
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Apple's T2 Security Chip Prevents Linux From Installing on New Macs
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(Score: 5, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday November 12 2018, @03:21AM (20 children)
Yup. Makes me wonder why this is really newsworthy. I mean, paulej72's wacky ass aside, what kind of Linux user is going to buy a Mac anyway? I mean, if you can get a lot more performance for your buck by not buying a Mac, where's the up side?
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by Arik on Monday November 12 2018, @05:18AM (10 children)
The kind of user who isn't necessarily up to date. Lots of us remember Mac's from a different era, and if you don't run into them every day might think they were still making good hardware.
Spoiler; they aren't. This 'macbook pro' is utterly useless, under any OS. It's a fashion accessory not a functional computer.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday November 12 2018, @11:19AM (1 child)
Yeah, it's been quite a while since the PPC days.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 4, Informative) by Bot on Monday November 12 2018, @05:13PM
The PPC-openfirmware-everything-but-the-modem-supported-and-no-blobs days. Yes, since the debian potato days, the hardware and peripheral guys did A LOT of work to prevent free software to make your machines basically eternal or faster with every new model. And to put the nail in the coffin, poetteringware helped on the software side.
Account abandoned.
(Score: 2) by isostatic on Monday November 12 2018, @12:48PM
I'm typing this on a 2013 macbook air (£900 new), the OS is fine - I use it mainly for web browsing on the train (as now), I don't do real work on it. The hardware, including the battery, has survived well. Keyboard isn't as good as an old thinkpad but beats all modern PC laptops I've ever used. The trackpad is almost as good as the pointer on a thinkpad.
My 2010 thinkpad (£1800 new), software (currently ubuntu 1604, but was originally 10.04 and has been upgraded via 12, 14 and 16) is fine, but hardware - especially the hinge - could be better. On the other hand the keyboard is far better than the mac.
A colleague has a new macbook without the keyboard, I'm not impressed, but the industry has been reducing quality on all laptops over the last 10-15 years.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by DannyB on Monday November 12 2018, @04:13PM
Those macs from a different era might be perfectly good overpriced machines with life left in them.
What makes macs obsolete, or so I am told, is the sudden, purely artificial, lack of new OS updates for otherwise perfectly good hardware. I heard this some years back, so it may be dated. But the pattern went like this: You can't get the new browser, because it needs the new OS. You can't get the new OS because it doesn't support your not-that-old and otherwise perfectly good hardware.
If present day macs won't run Linux or even (pinches nose...) Windows, then once those OS updates stop, the machine really does become useless. It is like Apple is trying to inflict additional pain deliberately. But for a religiously loyal audience that has more dollars than sense, they'll just buy a new of whatever Apple says.
I am not an irrational Apple hater. Back in the 80's and 90's I was a card carrying Apple fanboy and long time Mac developer. Back when Apple was a great company and led in technology rather than in fashion.
The lower I set my standards the more accomplishments I have.
(Score: 2) by Immerman on Monday November 12 2018, @04:25PM (3 children)
Haven't seen any of the new macs personally in a long time, but have Linux on a macbook pro from the early teens, back when DVD drives and adequate USB ports were the rule. and the build quality, functionality, and cosmetics are all quite good, probably among the best. I've heard from several mac people that it's all been downhill since then. Certainly the precipitous loss of USB ports suggests as much.
(Score: 2) by Bot on Monday November 12 2018, @05:20PM (2 children)
I had a titanium powerbook II series. A head turner, basically next to the other laptops it seemed alien tech. Linux double booting, booting from firewire. The build quality though was OK but not stellar, i had problems with the screen hinge due to a fall and they wanted 300 eur to send it from ITA to NL to have it repaired. I NOPED out of it crossed fingers wiped the HD and mailed it to a shop who did repairs some 600km from here, everything went well.no
Account abandoned.
(Score: 2) by Bot on Monday November 12 2018, @05:21PM (1 child)
"no" means "no big problems afterwards but the machine tended to heat up a lot".
Account abandoned.
(Score: 2) by Arik on Tuesday November 13 2018, @12:14AM
True of every Titanium Powerbook I ever worked with - and I worked with many of them. If the interior was cleaned regularly and they were kept in spec they would *almost* stay in spec on temp - and spec was pretty hot. And of course they get gunked up just as easy as any other laptop - maybe easier than some.
Once the cooling efficiency degraded even a little, trying to do real work on them resulted in temperatures high enough to make typing on the built-in keyboard uncomfortable, and of course to damage components over time.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 12 2018, @05:46PM (1 child)
"flamebait" is an unnecessary and suck ass mod to even have available. it's a whiner's mod. "controversial alert!"
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 13 2018, @08:06AM
"Stop downmodding me!" = the refrain of the whiner
(Score: 2, Flamebait) by NotSanguine on Monday November 12 2018, @05:56AM (2 children)
Since MacOS is a bastardized version of BSD, the kind that doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground.
Although, with a sharp stick, I think I could teach that sort of Linux user the difference between his ass and a hole in the ground. I wouldn't even attempt to teach such a user the difference between linux and BSD, with or without a sharp stick, however.
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday November 12 2018, @11:18AM
Well, being at least some form of *nix is still better than Windows given the choice but it's a bloody stupid choice when you don't have to run either.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 4, Funny) by DannyB on Monday November 12 2018, @04:17PM
For an ordinary Linux user, you would be correct.
But we're talking about a Linux user who would also buy Apple products. So they're accustomed to the way Apple treats them. Their reaction might be more like:
Thank you sir! I still do not know the difference! Could you please abuse me some more! And yes, I promise to loyally make my annual pilgrimage to WWDC this year!
[x] Yes! Please send me the latest of whatever Apple product you want, enclosed is a blank check!
The lower I set my standards the more accomplishments I have.
(Score: 2) by Pino P on Monday November 12 2018, @02:08PM (3 children)
The kind who has been hired* to port a Linux application to a Mac or vice versa. The upside of buying a Mac to run Linux is that a developer can use the same hardware to test the versions of an application for macOS, glibc/Linux, and musl/Linux platforms. This is especially true if the developer is trying to reach users who deliberately avoid using web applications, such as many who post comments to SoylentNews.
* Or self-employed. Many micro-ISVs run very lean.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday November 12 2018, @02:52PM
Fair nuff. I was speaking primarily for personal use boxen though.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 12 2018, @05:52PM (1 child)
what kind of linux user would allow themselves to be hired to port linux software to a slaveOS? shame! SHAME! :)
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday November 13 2018, @12:09AM
One who likes eating regularly.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by Immerman on Monday November 12 2018, @04:55PM
Performance isn't the end-all of laptops though - if performance is really important to you, you're going to get a desktop computer whose absolute performance *and* price/performance ratio blow any laptop out of the water. Not to mention I've met precious few Linux users that really care about performance - most distros run beautifully even on old hardware, and most games run better (or only) on Windows, so unless you're regularly doing something else very computationally intensive, performance just doesn't matter that much.
In fact, for most people performance of any non-junk computer is plenty adequate, and the the primary considerations should be the hardware you directly interact with: screen (resolution, finish, brightness, contrast, color quality, and viewing angle), speakers(if used for music/movies), keyboard (if they type a lot), and mouse/touchpad. For a desktop those are all separate products so you can buy exactly what you want and use them indefinitely. But for a laptop they're all integrated (except an optional mouse) and so must be considered as part of the purchase decision. I've long recommended those as the primary considerations for laptop purchases - finding a fast enough computer for a decent price is usually easy. Finding one that won't leave you quietly cursing the interface can be a much greater challenge. (My biggest complaint against Macs is the flat-top keys - there's a fricking good reason keyboards have cupped keys to subtly maintain proper finger alignment.)
And then there's durability - laptops take a LOT more physical abuse than desktops, so build quality matters a lot more. And aesthetics, if you're not the sort of person who's happy to drive a battered but reliable old clunker around town. Macs have traditionally been among the best on both of those metrics, at least until recent years.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 17 2018, @09:42AM
After all, I seem to remember he spent a lot of time doing presentations on a Macbook running OSX.
I seem to remember hearing Linus Torvalds or a few other big name Linux devs were running them back in the 2008-2013 timeframe as well.