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from the If-you-agreed-it's-not-spying dept.
A judge has ordered Amazon to hand over Echo records to assist with a murder investigation. When Christine Sullivan was found dead in her backyard after being stabbed multiple times, New Hampshire requested for data held by Amazon to be released to help solve the crime.
An Amazon spokesperson said earlier it would not release the recordings "without a valid and binding legal demand properly served on us."
The judge agrees.
So he issued just such a legal demand.
[...] "Amazon does not seek to obstruct any lawful investigation but rather seeks to protect the privacy rights of its customers when the government is seeking their data from Amazon, especially when that data may include expressive content protected by the First Amendment," company lawyers wrote at the time.
It is yet to respond to the New Hampshire Court order.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 15 2018, @10:59AM (16 children)
If Amazon didn't save any recordings in the first place, it wouldn't matter whether there's a court order or not. You cannot give out what you don't have.
And it is the very existence of those recordings that is the troublesome part. And no, the big problem is not that they might give it to the government. The big problem is that they have it and can use it for their own purposes as they see fit.
(Score: 2) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Thursday November 15 2018, @11:14AM
-cy.
But at the same time it quite clearly stated - might have even been Tim Cook who stated - they will hand over iCloud data with a warrant.
Seems to me that would not be a problem were iCloud to use end-to-end encryption.
And for all it's high-sounding privacy rhetoric, one _cannot_ anonymously download even free-of-charge iOS or macOS apps from the app store. Even when you want a free app, from time to time Apple verifies one's billing information.
Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 15 2018, @11:34AM (11 children)
Last time I checked Amazon only saved small snippets of when a user gives the wake word and a command. Unless the alleged murderer paused to use Alexa during a killing, it won't help other than to establish that someone was using the device at a certain time.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 15 2018, @12:35PM (4 children)
That's adorable! Do you believe in the tooth fairy and the easter bunny too?
By the way, I have this wonderful opportunity I'd like to share with you. For just US$5,000.00, you too can be the proud owner of...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 15 2018, @01:50PM
This isn't the first murder investigation Amazon has been involved in. $5,000 says they get no audio recording of the killing.
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Thursday November 15 2018, @02:57PM (2 children)
Tooth fairy - Yes.
Easter Bunny - No.
Wow! Look mom! The tooth fairy gave me $50! Can I borrow some pliers [wikipedia.org] so I can pull out my other teeth?!?!
To transfer files: right-click on file, pick Copy. Unplug mouse, plug mouse into other computer. Right-click, paste.
(Score: 4, Funny) by cubancigar11 on Thursday November 15 2018, @04:39PM
http://pbfcomics.com/comics/way-too-much/ [pbfcomics.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 19 2018, @04:27PM
Why on earth did you feel the need to cite pliers?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 15 2018, @12:57PM (2 children)
How did you check that?
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 15 2018, @01:48PM (1 child)
I murdered a guy with an Echo in the room.
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Thursday November 15 2018, @02:59PM
Next time you'll know to have a Google Home instead.
It is the preferred assistant for such activities.
To transfer files: right-click on file, pick Copy. Unplug mouse, plug mouse into other computer. Right-click, paste.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by ledow on Thursday November 15 2018, @01:23PM (2 children)
Their terms and conditions do indeed say that Alexa is only cloud-active when lit up, after you've said the wake word or pressed the button.
However, don't think of what they DO do. Think of what they CAN do. Those terms and conditions can change at any point. Are you always reading them thoroughly before agreeing to them every time they change?
Also, if Amazon should decide to, there's nothing stopping them *OR AN INTERESTED THIRD PARTY* attacking the device, or replacing that firmware with something that just uploads everything, terms and conditions or not.
You have a mic. With an internet connection. The only thing stopping joining the two is a single bit somewhere that can be toggled.
Now think what happens if, say, a government issues a secret court order/warrant to require Amazon to do things on certain Amazon devices owned by certain people, and never speak of it. Game over. And they've tried to do that to Apple before now, so it wouldn't be the first attempted use of consumer devices in such cases.
Why anyone tolerates these things in their house, I can't imagine, let alone train their kids to "play" on them.
Smartphones are bad enough.
(Score: 2) by darkfeline on Thursday November 15 2018, @11:04PM (1 child)
If you have an Internet connected computer, you have a mic with an Internet connection (speakers can be used as microphones too). Unless you have personally designed and fabricated all of your hardware, you are always at the mercy of dozens of manufacturers. It's just a question of which dozen you choose to trust. There isn't a particular reason why Amazon and its dozens of supply chain members are more or less trustworthy than, say, Dell and its dozens of supply chain members, or HP and its dozens of supply chain members.
Join the SDF Public Access UNIX System today!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 16 2018, @02:05AM
OMFG
https://security.stackexchange.com/questions/154343/can-a-speaker-be-used-as-a-microphone [stackexchange.com]
(Score: 4, Insightful) by SomeGuy on Thursday November 15 2018, @01:12PM
Fixed that for you.
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Thursday November 15 2018, @03:07PM
Supposedly, their porpoises are to learn to recognize speech samples better. No doubt these samples contain all sorts of background noise. TVs playing (yes, I've tried it). Dogs meowing. Kids fighting. Etc.
They could anonymize the data. If it truly is for better speech recognition development, then why do the recordings need to be tied to anyone's identity?
The text transcriptions of the speech samples are perhaps more interesting. What did you search for? What political parties and reality TV stars do you like? Do you use Windows like a normal sheeple, or do you use dangerous frightening black screen command lines like scary hackers on TV?
To transfer files: right-click on file, pick Copy. Unplug mouse, plug mouse into other computer. Right-click, paste.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 16 2018, @02:21AM
Well if it had been a FISA warrant, we'd never have known. Not that it matters since they probably already DO share all the data, it just happens under a "Amazon Federal" or some such subsidiary, just like all the carriers do. Essentially what you've got is subsidiaries that hire all ex-mil with existing clearance, and then give them access to the data as private contractors. To get the job they have to maintain the clearance, which has with it criminal rather than just civil penalties. IOW, private military intel operations violating posse commatatus.