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from the plenty-of-time-to-sleep-when-you're-in-the-ground dept.
The Virginian-Pilot reports: https://pilotonline.com/news/military/local/article_eec71122-ecfd-11e8-bc0e-73bf42b0bc87.html
Anyone who has driven home late at night after being up for more than 18 hours knows the inevitable drooping eyelids and wheel jerking that can result. I was once in a conversation where the argument was made that driving tired was far more dangerous than being drunk (YMMV)
In recognition of this truth that all late night drivers realize sooner or later, the U.S. Navy has decided that driving their ships should only be done while alert and awake. To this end:
All Navy sailors working aboard aircraft carriers are now being given the chance to get eight hours of uninterrupted sleep per 24-hour period after a change in policy in the wake of two fatal collisions that killed 17 crew members in the Pacific Fleet in summer 2017.
The change extends to all carrier sailors, not just those working in aviation-related jobs, said Lt. Travis Callaghan, a spokesman for the Pacific Coast-based Commander, Naval Air Forces. It also makes it mandatory that all aircraft carrier sailors are not to be scheduled for more than 18 hours of continuous duties requiring them to remain awake. Previously, that was a recommendation that only applied to flight crews.
The article continues
"The longer you're awake, you're just basically, essentially, performing under the influence of your own fatigue, but just not alcohol," Rice said. "No one would say, 'I'm driving a little drunk,' to your skipper but we often will say, 'I'm a little tired.' "
I'm not sure why one would intentionally run sailors routinely to the point that if they had to keep going during an emergency they would potentially be starting in a sleep deprived state, but there you are. Perhaps someone that has more perspective on the Navy can explain it.
(Score: 5, Informative) by GreatAuntAnesthesia on Monday November 26 2018, @10:09AM (14 children)
> I'm not sure why one would intentionally run sailors routinely to the point that if they had to keep going during an emergency they would potentially be starting in a sleep deprived state,
A) Because getting more work out of less people is cheaper.
B) Because STOP COMPLAINING ABOUT BEING TIRED, SISSYBOY! WHEN I WAS YOUR RANK WE WERE WORKING 20 HOUR SHIFTS WITH BULLETS FLYING OVERHEAD yadda yadda yadda ignorant macho bullshit.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 26 2018, @11:07AM
C) Well rested soldiers might be able to think through their orders and realize their commanders are ignorant idiots.
(Score: 4, Informative) by crafoo on Monday November 26 2018, @11:46AM (2 children)
Isn't it the same issue with doctors and nurses?
The problem is who we put in charge to manage our skilled people. They aren't skilled people themselves, they haven't done the job (in many cases). They are good at managing spreadsheets and making graphs. There is even an "advanced degree" for these dipshits: MBA.
(Score: 2) by Freeman on Monday November 26 2018, @05:55PM (1 child)
I got a minor in Business Administration. I would call those hours of study useless, but apparently some people actually think that having a minor in BA is worth something. So, all in all good for my career, but I pretty nearly learned nothing. The most interesting classes I had for my BA were the Accounting Classes. I hardly learned a thing in my BA classes, but I did learn a bit about bookkeeping which isn't all bad.
Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
(Score: 3, Interesting) by crafoo on Monday November 26 2018, @10:29PM
Yeah, didn't mean to insult your hard work, or anyone else. I looked into an MBA hoping that I would learn skills to run a small business, handle finances, very basic employment law, contracts, insurance, basic marketing, sales, identifying niche markets, etc. It seems they teach none of that. At least at any school near me. Then I spend many years in corporate world and meet all these business + MBA people that essentially seem to be unproven witchcraft + spreadsheets. It left me fairly unimpressed.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Monday November 26 2018, @12:25PM
That's a form of paranoia that is common among soldiers who are unable to get enough sleep during a protracted battle.
Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
(Score: 0, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 26 2018, @12:37PM (6 children)
D) Practice for time of war when the luxury of 8 hours of sleep is not feasible
(Score: 4, Insightful) by GreatAuntAnesthesia on Monday November 26 2018, @01:40PM
Isn't that like "in order to prepare you to fight even with one of your arms cut off, we're going to cut your arm off"?
Do "practise" during training. Surely when military personnel are on the job and there isn't some crisis, they should be at peak effectiveness as far as possible.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by DannyB on Monday November 26 2018, @03:18PM (4 children)
Fine. Do such practice. Do it in a safe way where lives are not put at risk for the sake of practice.
The lower I set my standards the more accomplishments I have.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 26 2018, @05:56PM (3 children)
Safety is important. So is readiness. Training is not necessarily a synonym "practice" and while risks can be minimized valuable training always involves elements of risk - because you're actually Doing, not Practicing.
(Score: 3, Funny) by DannyB on Monday November 26 2018, @07:43PM (2 children)
Readiness is important. But still maybe it is possible to conduct war in a safe way so that nobody gets hurt.
NEW! Fisher Price nuclear weapons!
The lower I set my standards the more accomplishments I have.
(Score: 2) by crafoo on Monday November 26 2018, @10:31PM (1 child)
Ahhh. Ahh haha you joker! You almost had me. I've heard people say something similar with a straight face.
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Tuesday November 27 2018, @03:20PM
With some practice I have learned how to say most of the things I post with a straight face.
The lower I set my standards the more accomplishments I have.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 26 2018, @05:54PM
On a constant and ongoing state, no.
On an occasional state? Your enemy is NOT going to respect that the battle has been going on for twenty hours and thus you deserve some rack time. He's going to try to kill you anyway. And the soldier or sailor who doesn't realize this and outfit that doesn't train for that possibility WILL lose the battle.
Dunno about Navy or Air Force, but I know that both Army and Marines have training exercises that can simulate this, starting from boot camp. Experienced one (yeah, way back in them olden days...) and was told about The Crucible from two jarheads who are blood.
A soldier is a soldier 24/7 and will at all times during duty be prepared to kill. Hoorah.
(Score: 2) by Gaaark on Monday November 26 2018, @10:56PM
If they're under constant attack and hyper-adrenalined, those hours ARE possible...for a while.
"Steer the ship...and stay awake" is not a hyper-adrenalined situation, so the upper levels SHOULD have known better. That they didn't shows how out of touch they are.
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---