Stories
Slash Boxes
Comments

SoylentNews is people

posted by Fnord666 on Thursday November 29 2018, @05:55PM   Printer-friendly
from the a-seller's-market dept.

With California experiencing two years of unprecedented wildfires that have left more than 20,000 homes destroyed and scores dead, the private firefighting business is booming. These brigades work independently from county firefighters; their job is to protect specific homes under contract with insurance companies.

Their work can vary from pushing back flames as they approach properties to reaching the site before the blaze arrives and spraying homes with fire retardant.

But the private forces have generated complaints from some fire departments, who say they don't always coordinate with local crews and amount to one more worry as they try to evacuate residents and battle the blaze.

"From the standpoint of first responders, they are not viewed as assets to be deployed. They're viewed as a responsibility," said Carroll Wills, communications director for California Professional Firefighters, a labor union representing rank-and-file firefighters in the state.

What began more than a decade ago as a white-glove service for homeowners in well-to-do neighborhoods has expanded in recent years as the wildfire danger has increased, said Michael Barry, a spokesman for the Insurance Information Institute, a not-for-profit organization that educates the public about the insurance industry.

https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-private-firefighters-20181127-story.html


Original Submission

 
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.
Display Options Threshold/Breakthrough Mark All as Read Mark All as Unread
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by edIII on Friday November 30 2018, @04:03AM (1 child)

    by edIII (791) on Friday November 30 2018, @04:03AM (#768144)

    No, I really think it is you guys that don't get it. This is starting to sound a little like the mercenaries versus soldiers argument. Mercenaries should never even be remotely considered, but the black mark on the US soul is there nonetheless.

    This is about coordination, responsibility, authorization, and not about financial competition or competition between public and private solutions. The excuses are hardly transparent, and your hand wave dismissal of them doesn't cut it. Either answer to the specific arguments, or bow out.

    "We" don't want them there because of the saying, "Too many chiefs, not enough indians". If there is a way for them to be fully certified, regulated, and interact with the chain of command, then why not? As bob_super pointed out, this does happen already. There are private companies working for public agency, and when they do, they are incorporated into the chain of command. The fire chief is aware of them, logistics and planning includes them, evacuation plans consider them, etc.

    When the call comes to move back and adjust the containment lines, all private assets need to move as one with the public assets. You do otherwise, and the public assets are now tasked with providing support to the private assets, which should be fucking listening to the coordinators. Not being all macho, Red Adair style, "Fuck that! We got a property to save! Company image on the line! Shareholders to excite!". Then go running into the fire on Evil Knieval's motorcycle.

    Firefighters don't just give up, they're in a constant strategic battle with nature, and sometimes nature can just push too fucking hard. Armies retreat for a reason, so do firefighters.

    I suspect there is a strong undercurrent of 'its embarrassing when we say an area is unsaveable, and they go and save it, humph'

    Now you're being stupid as well as ignorant. There is no undercurrent of fucking anything you prick, much less embarrassment. Try stepping foot in Northern California and insulting the firemen with claims of incompetence and big egos, and you will get punched the fuck out, if not carried out by a mob to the nearest airport. Understandably, we love our fire fighters. A LOT. Disparaging them makes you look like a Grade A Gaping Asshole.

    "unsaveable [sic]"?

    This is your profound fucking ignorance speaking. Yes, indeed, you stupid fucking dumbass, IT WAS UNSAVABLE. It's not a matter of manpower, or courage, or dedication, when you have the conditions we had. Period.

    What part of +80mph winds in the fire over a year ago, and worse conditions this year, do you not fully understand? Do you really think we have the technology to stop a fire in its tracks, that has low humidity conditions with high amounts of fuel around it with very high winds pushing it? If you do, you must be simply beside yourself at the passing of Spongebob Squarepants creator, Mr. Hillenburg. You must believe Bikini Bottom's physics are possible :)

    When people cannot escape by car fast enough because their engines cannot get enough oxygen, when the flash point of materials is hit within seconds of the fire approaching, when fires jump 10 lane highways, there is going to be a lot of truly unsavable properties.

    Public, or private, nothing is going to stop that. Which is why it is so crucial to learn from this, and instead of encourage money wasted on private fire fighting companies for reactive services, pay them to set prescribed fires under the guidance of the proper public agency. That removes the major condition contributing to these disasters, and that is an insane abundance of fuel. I doubt you are even cognizant about how fragile and impacted our forests are in California, or about the ongoing efforts under way to address it.

    I'm not against private, and neither is Bob_super (who you claim is biased and making money somehow), but want private instead to be hired and operated by public agency. Either that, or the laws are incredibly clear during catastrophes that private agencies must immediately comply with directives by the public agency. In other words, private is not in charge.

    Make no mistake. These were giant fucking catastrophes, not relatively harmless little house/apartment fires that take out 1 or 2 structures. We lost thousands in the space of hours. Get your head out of your fucking ass, and you owe an apology to the firefighters you disparage.

    --
    Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
    Starting Score:    1  point
    Moderation   +3  
       Insightful=2, Informative=1, Total=3
    Extra 'Insightful' Modifier   0  
    Karma-Bonus Modifier   +1  

    Total Score:   5  
  • (Score: 2) by urza9814 on Friday November 30 2018, @05:52PM

    by urza9814 (3954) on Friday November 30 2018, @05:52PM (#768367) Journal

    Generally I agree with you, but I do see one error in your above statements:

    "We" don't want them there because of the saying, "Too many chiefs, not enough indians". If there is a way for them to be fully certified, regulated, and interact with the chain of command, then why not? As bob_super pointed out, this does happen already. There are private companies working for public agency, and when they do, they are incorporated into the chain of command. The fire chief is aware of them, logistics and planning includes them, evacuation plans consider them, etc.

    If the public fire department had the budget to have these private corporations working for them, they probably would be already. The problem is that there are people trying to throw more money at the problem of the fires, money that the public government either doesn't have or isn't willing to allocate that way. Granted, you could say that they should just donate to the fire department directly, but particularly since the money is coming from insurance companies, they're probably not very interested in donating to people who they don't necessarily represent. And I don't really see why there can't be a middle ground between "they must be hired and paid by the state" vs "they are not a legitimate organization and should not be allowed to operate."

    In general, I don't really accept that the government ought to be trying to protect me from myself. If that's true, then civil rights are a rather meaningless concept. Mandatory evacuations which criminalize attempts to act as a "good Samaritan" are categorically immoral IMO. Of course, that would also mean that they have no obligation to help you -- which is actually true already, so that's not a technical or a legal problem; if the public firefighters are changing tactics just to defend these dopes then they're doing it purely for the PR value. And I don't think that's necessarily something we should be building laws and public policy around.

    And if we do decide to fully commit to the idea of government agents trying to protect people from their own stupidity, then why not have a certification program so that you can go try to defend your or your clients' property as long as you demonstrate that you're capable of working well with others? You've got a lot of manpower and a lot of equipment that's trying to help with your mission -- or at least some part of it, which could still free up resources to be used elsewhere -- and you're just going to tell them all to GTFO? How does that make any sense?