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posted by martyb on Friday November 30 2018, @09:47AM   Printer-friendly
from the Quite-a-few-from-Europe-and-China,-too dept.

As a former H1 visa holder, this article interested me and shows the value that immigrants bring to the USA.

According to this opinion piece, the USA and specifically Santa Clara county is only the leader in tech because of immigrants.

In 1965, the Immigration Act of 1924 was repealed, opening the gates to immigrants and allowing a critical mass of technology companies to develop in clusters around Boston and Santa Clara County. A significant proportion of all the best graduates from the best schools in India (IIT) came to the USA -- in effect, the USA siphoned off India's best talent and used it to develop leadership in technology and to grow the economy.


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  • (Score: 4, Insightful) by The Shire on Friday November 30 2018, @03:39PM (25 children)

    by The Shire (5824) on Friday November 30 2018, @03:39PM (#768304)

    The gist of this article is not so much that America would flounder without immigrants, it's that LEGAL MERIT BASED immigration is what helps drive the global tech industry. There are American scientists and engineers who work overseas as well - there's a constant exchange of highly skilled workers around the world.

    On the flip side, ILLEGAL UNSKILLED immigrants are a massive burden on the US.

    This is a great opinion piece in support of significant immigration reform moving the US towards a strictly merit based immigration system.

    That being said, why are we seeing a constant stream of OPINION pieces on Soylent NEWS. Opinion != News

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  • (Score: 4, Interesting) by Whoever on Friday November 30 2018, @03:54PM (19 children)

    by Whoever (4524) on Friday November 30 2018, @03:54PM (#768315) Journal

    On the flip side, ILLEGAL UNSKILLED immigrants are a massive burden on the US.

    Do you actually have any citation to support that assertion? Or is it more xenophobic bullshit?

    • (Score: 0, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 30 2018, @04:17PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 30 2018, @04:17PM (#768329)

      Phobia inituates some sort of irrational fear. I assure you we are neither affraid, nor are our concerns irrational.

    • (Score: 5, Informative) by The Shire on Friday November 30 2018, @04:19PM (13 children)

      by The Shire (5824) on Friday November 30 2018, @04:19PM (#768332)

      You mean things like this:

      https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2018/02/26/how-american-citizens-finance-health-care-for-undocumented-immigrants/ [forbes.com]

      I know whipping out the nazi|xenophobe|racist terms are the favored retort, but the facts are that the vast majority of ILLEGAL immigrants come here to take advantage of our lax welfare system. I have yet to meet anyone who opposed LEGAL immigration. Why is it some people have so much trouble differentiating between the two?

      • (Score: 4, Informative) by DeathMonkey on Friday November 30 2018, @07:01PM (3 children)

        by DeathMonkey (1380) on Friday November 30 2018, @07:01PM (#768394) Journal

        I have yet to meet anyone who opposed LEGAL immigration.

        Applying to asylum/refugee status is not a crime. But Fox News and the entire Trump admin are very much opposed to it.

        • (Score: 2) by The Shire on Friday November 30 2018, @09:08PM (2 children)

          by The Shire (5824) on Friday November 30 2018, @09:08PM (#768452)

          If they really came en-masse to apply for assylum then why didn't they take it when the Mexican government offered it. I'll tell you why, because they dont need asylum, they just want to latch on to our welfare system for a free ride.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 30 2018, @10:11PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 30 2018, @10:11PM (#768486)

            It seems many of them did:

            But an estimated 5,000 migrants spent Monday night in the central Mexican city of Guadalajara, before enduring another round of frustration during their attempts to move farther north on Tuesday. More than 2,000 more have received temporary visas to stay in the country.

            https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2018/11/13/migrant-caravan-some-border-most-mexico-far-us/1992059002/ [usatoday.com]

            But is it really the welfare, or the fact that Mexico has its own trouble with drug lords?

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 01 2018, @04:20PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 01 2018, @04:20PM (#768649)

            can we stick with why Trump hasn't prevented HCL and other H1B abuser companies from replacing so many of the people that could be at least employed? my company laid off a few hundred people after telling them that agile devops would make life easier, just cross train these people so you can then be freed up to learn your new responsibilities.

            none of those IT workers probably give a shit about unskilled laborers making food cheaper right now. they have problems enough buying food and probably would be upset if the prices went up.

      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by digitalaudiorock on Friday November 30 2018, @09:52PM (6 children)

        by digitalaudiorock (688) on Friday November 30 2018, @09:52PM (#768478) Journal

        You mean things like this:

        I like how that Forbes assessment conveniently leaves out the fact that a huge number of undocumented workers get income tax withheld from their pay but never even get their refund back because obviously they can't, and how we keep all that. We can assume the rest of that opinion piece is just as reliable.

        • (Score: 2) by NewNic on Friday November 30 2018, @10:43PM

          by NewNic (6420) on Friday November 30 2018, @10:43PM (#768493) Journal

          Plus, there is the bogus inclusion in the calculation of taxes that are not paid because hospitals are non-profits. If no illegal immigrants used the hospital facilities, there would be no additional revenue on which taxes would be due.

          That article is written for consumption by uncritical supporters of Republican talking points. In other words: "Useful idiots"!

          --
          lib·er·tar·i·an·ism ˌlibərˈterēənizəm/ noun: Magical thinking that useful idiots mistake for serious political theory
        • (Score: 3, Insightful) by The Shire on Saturday December 01 2018, @12:03AM (4 children)

          by The Shire (5824) on Saturday December 01 2018, @12:03AM (#768517)

          I like how you conveniently leave out the fact that we ALL pay income tax but we don't all get free health care. Or that our income tax pays for their health care but not for our own. How does that fit in your little narrative?

          • (Score: 2, Disagree) by digitalaudiorock on Saturday December 01 2018, @02:28AM (1 child)

            by digitalaudiorock (688) on Saturday December 01 2018, @02:28AM (#768544) Journal

            ...and you think that immigration is the cause of that situation?? I'll just leave it with this, as it's hard to top:

            https://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?noupdate=1&sid=28723&page=1&cid=765795 [soylentnews.org]

            • (Score: 0, Flamebait) by The Shire on Saturday December 01 2018, @05:02AM

              by The Shire (5824) on Saturday December 01 2018, @05:02AM (#768560)

              That post is among the most naive I've ever read. If you think humanity can be grouped together into one giant homogeneous "Our Kind - HumanKind" all holding hands singing kumbaya together then you're out of your tiny little mind. The fact is people ARE different from one and another. Some are intelligent, some not so much. Some are dexterous, some not so much. Some are strong, some are weak, some are handicapped. There are personality types which are completely incompatible with other personality types. You can't pool all these people together, they are inherently different - not by race or skin color or creed, but by characters and skill and merit for a particular task or field.

              I get so sick of this PC crap about how we're all equal - well we're not. We have equal RIGHTS but we are not all equal in ability. It should be horribly obvious to anyone who cares to look around themselves that people are not all the same. And if that offends you then good - be offended. It's healthy to be offended. It stimulates you to improve yourself. This bull about everyone being the same and deserving to be treated the same is just that, bull. If you have a brilliant mind or a desirable skill then you deserve to be treated with respect. If you're an utter useless moron then you deserve none. And god knows there are plenty of the latter.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 02 2018, @04:57AM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 02 2018, @04:57AM (#768823)

            How does that fit in your little narrative?

            Fits by showing "The Shire" needs a scouring, since it has been taken over by the remnant forces of Mordor and stupid. So tell us again why Obamacare is pure evil socialism that will make us all into illegal Central American immigrants who get health care, education, food clothing and housing, and the prospect of a productive and happy existence! That's how it fits!

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 01 2018, @07:51PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 01 2018, @07:51PM (#768703)

        Here is an example of someone who doesn't want 'legal immigrants', or more correctly, wants the law to change to make what is legal today to no longer be legal: https://youtu.be/ygVX1z6tDGI?t=780 [youtu.be]

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 02 2018, @01:20AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 02 2018, @01:20AM (#768784)

        but the facts are that the vast majority of ILLEGAL immigrants come here to take advantage of our lax welfare system.

        No, they do not. They are illegal, so they cannot. Instead they work for sub-legal wages for dodgy Republicans who threaten them with deportation if they try to stand up for their human rights. What you have asserted here is wrong, in error, not correct, false, and completely untrue. If you have asserted this knowingly, you are a liar, a mendacious twit, a racist and probably a Nazi, but at least a Republican. I suggest you stop being so afraid, stress shortens your life, lowers your IQ, and can cause your dick to fall off.

    • (Score: 2) by curunir_wolf on Friday November 30 2018, @05:49PM

      by curunir_wolf (4772) on Friday November 30 2018, @05:49PM (#768365)

      On the flip side, ILLEGAL UNSKILLED immigrants are a massive burden on the US.

      Do you actually have any citation to support that assertion? Or is it more xenophobic bullshit?

      How about the lowest minority unemployment in history, correlated with a much lower rate of illegal immigration? With less illegal foreign labor, it leaves jobs available for unskilled American labor. Clearly, those are NOT jobs that no American would do.

      --
      I am a crackpot
    • (Score: 2) by Bot on Saturday December 01 2018, @12:39AM

      by Bot (3902) on Saturday December 01 2018, @12:39AM (#768524) Journal

      > Do you actually have any citation to support that assertion?

      - i spilled wine on the pants, they are stained
      - do you actually have any citation to support that consequence? Or are you some winephobe?
       

      --
      Account abandoned.
    • (Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 01 2018, @12:58AM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 01 2018, @12:58AM (#768528)

      Or is it more xenophobic bullshit?

      How about we discuss the rampant xenophilia that you seem to have? Why are so many people so concerned about all the people of the world except their own people?

      Is it a lust for someone to feel superior to? Do you get off sexually on lording it over other people, and since your fellow countrymen generally won't let you lord it over them, you have to illegally import people in to control? Does your inner commissar delight in ordering people about, perhaps even using them for physical pleasure, since they don't dare go to the police to report you for your crimes?

      Inside every liberal is someone who wants to rape brown people, hence the eternal call for more immigration to supply you more victims.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 02 2018, @05:21AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 02 2018, @05:21AM (#768827)

        How about we discuss the rampant xenophilia that you seem to have? Why are so many people so concerned about all the people of the world except their own people?

        You mistake American values of justice and fairness for something else. It not that we care about others in the world more than "our people", whatever that is supposed to mean. It is just that we do not like racist xenophobic bastards like you, and especially you. Log in an use your real username so we can punch you in the face, you goddamned Nazi!

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 30 2018, @04:15PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 30 2018, @04:15PM (#768328)

    imo, it's enough to be pro-enforcment of the laws, because, having gone through the process, you need to have merit to get in.

    but hey, its easy to make a stink about immigration while nothing is/has been done about financial fraud. the way i see it its the locust capitalism that caused the middle-class annihilation and lawlessness, not some random group of sick poor bastards with or without criminal intent.

    even the idea that immigration is an important issue is nuts imo when you compare it to the decrepit extortionary monopolist health system and the unprosecuted mess of financial crimes still lingering from '08.

    i could say that the discourse is entirely manufactured.. but then i might offend your sensibilities by speaking from first hand knowledge of the reality of how these things are done. .. do like the romans .. follow the money and ask 'qui bono' from direction your attention this way.

  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by JoeMerchant on Friday November 30 2018, @05:09PM

    by JoeMerchant (3937) on Friday November 30 2018, @05:09PM (#768353)

    why are we seeing a constant stream of OPINION pieces

    Perception is all there is. Nothing new about the fact that many (most?) people regard opinions as not only news, but often fact.

    --
    🌻🌻 [google.com]
  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Thexalon on Friday November 30 2018, @06:40PM (2 children)

    by Thexalon (636) on Friday November 30 2018, @06:40PM (#768384)

    If we were going to have merit-based immigration, the first thing we should do is eliminate country-by-country quotas and replace them with a worldwide selection system. The US does not do that, and none of the people who are making immigration a key political issue have proposed doing that.

    As for the people you're calling "unskilled" illegal immigrants: There are no jobs without some kind of skill. For instance, the illegal farm workers that are used throughout the agriculture industry definitely have the skills needed to do those jobs well, or they would be replaced. And if you don't believe me that there's skill involved, try to do one of those jobs.

    The thing that doesn't make much sense to me, though, is all the hate directed at desperate people coming to the US because they'd like to make enough money to live and also would like to not be shot at. If you want to hate someone, hate the people that already have plenty of money but are preferring to hire those desperate people rather than the desperate people who are already here.

    And if you want to end illegal immigration, here's how you do it: Punish the heck out of people who hire them. Hefty fines to meat packing plants, hotel chains, au pair agencies, etc. Take away the incentives, the illegal immigrants will stop coming.

    --
    The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
    • (Score: 3, Interesting) by The Shire on Friday November 30 2018, @09:14PM (1 child)

      by The Shire (5824) on Friday November 30 2018, @09:14PM (#768457)

      Illegal immigrants are responsible for driving down the wages paid to farm workers. If you want to impose that $15/hr minimum wage for the work they're doing I guarantee you tons of real Americans will be more than happy to do the work.

      I would love nothing more than to see a significant crack down on any company who hires illegals. I think that would make for an awesome start. But many of these people aren't even working, they're sucking up welfare and free medical care that most real Americans can't even qualify for. They're leeches.

      Meanwhile, LEGAL immigrants are working hard within the system and ironically have fewer options than those illegals who undercut them. It's completely topsy turvy.

      • (Score: 2) by dry on Saturday December 01 2018, @07:17AM

        by dry (223) on Saturday December 01 2018, @07:17AM (#768573) Journal

        Up here in Canada, we have to import foreign farm workers, mostly from Central America, fly them in, pay them $15+ an hour, give them housing, and fly them back at the end of the season due to Canadians refusing to do the work for $15 an hour. I think you'll find the same down there, at that didn't Georgia or somewhere get rid of all the illegal farm workers and was left with crops rotting in the fields?
        It's shitty hard work, which takes certain skills to do well. I tried it a bit when I was young. It was contract then and I made about $10 a day while the Central Americans and E Indians were making over $50 a day, at a time when minimum wage was about $4 an hour.