Stories
Slash Boxes
Comments

SoylentNews is people

posted by martyb on Monday December 03 2018, @02:48PM   Printer-friendly
from the hey-man,-can-you-dig-it? dept.

The Boring Company won’t pursue LA tunnel under 405 freeway anymore

Back in August, The Boring Company was already distancing itself from a plan it pitched earlier in the year to build a test tunnel under Sepulveda Boulevard and the 405 freeway in Los Angeles.

On Tuesday, The Boring Company and a group of Westside residents issued a joint statement that they had "amicably settled" a lawsuit brought by the residents against The Boring Company in May of this year, according to the Los Angeles Times. The company, founded by Tesla and SpaceX CEO Elon Musk, said it would drop plans to build the 405 test tunnel and focus instead on building the so-called "Dugout Loop" that will run between a downtown LA Metro station and Dodger Stadium, if all goes as planned.

Elon Musk talks proof-of-concept tunnel parallel to the 405 in Los Angeles Musk announced the 405-parallel tunnel in an evening talk back in May, describing it as a 2.7 mile north-south test tunnel that wouldn't carry the general public—at first. Musk added at the time that The Boring Company would eventually do test rides to get user feedback. The City of Los Angeles appeared poised to fast-track Musk's idea, with LA Metro announcing: "We'll be partners moving forward."

[...] Now, The Boring Company intends to focus on the Dugout Loop, for which it has begun the CEQA permitting process (although it's unclear if a full permit will be acquired before construction starts). Critics have charged that The Boring Company has taken advantage of poorer neighborhoods, like the Hawthorne neighborhood under which Musk's first tunnel is being completed. Meanwhile, richer neighborhoods represented by the coalition of Westside neighborhoods have the resources to fight back. Others might see the opposition from wealthy LA neighborhoods as a form of NIMBYism that stops innovation from coming to impacted LA transit.

For now, Musk's first Hawthorne tunnel is almost complete. The Boring company intends to open the tunnel to the public in December.


Original Submission

 
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.
Display Options Threshold/Breakthrough Mark All as Read Mark All as Unread
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
  • (Score: 1) by khallow on Monday December 03 2018, @06:48PM (7 children)

    by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Monday December 03 2018, @06:48PM (#769241) Journal

    Why TF he needs to build a proof-of-concept tunnel anyway is beyond me, it's just a Godammed tunnel, they are being built elsewhere all the time.

    So suppose you need some work done on your roof and you run into someone cheap. They say they can do it. That's good enough right?

    Or maybe it's not good enough and you want to see some evidence that they can do the work, say recommendations from customers who had roof jobs done.

    That's what's going on here. Tunneling is a big part of the capital costs of the Hyperloop system in an urban environment. They're showing that they can do it (while learning from the experience), not just to the city of Los Angeles, but also to the world, Boring Company's investors, Elon Musk, and themselves. If they don't build such a tunnel, then how will anyone know that they can build such a tunnel?

  • (Score: 2) by Nuke on Monday December 03 2018, @08:07PM (4 children)

    by Nuke (3162) on Monday December 03 2018, @08:07PM (#769270)

    But they have already built a test tunnel (Hawthorne Test Tunnel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boring_Test_Tunnel), [wikipedia.org] and Musk is already getting contracts (Chicago O'Hare link https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-06-14/elon-musk-s-boring-co-wins-chicago-airport-high-speed-train-bid). [bloomberg.com] I believe that Musk is calling these "Test Tunnels" as some sort of way of getting building permission easier.

    Tunnel boring is established tech, the principle of which needs no further proof. If Boring fouls up in a contract then they can be fired and the job given to another contractor to finish - at least that has been a provision in all civil engineering contracts I have been involved with. If Musk thinks he has some way of digging faster, fine, try it out under the desert if he must, but he should get the fuck on with it instead of talking. I'd be unimpressed by such test pieces anyway - the success and speed of tunnel building (as with much civil engineering) depends very much on the geological conditions met and a test piece done elsewhere does not have much relevance.

    • (Score: 2) by Nuke on Monday December 03 2018, @08:11PM

      by Nuke (3162) on Monday December 03 2018, @08:11PM (#769271)

      Sorry, those links did not work, the closing parenthesis fouled them up. Here they are again :

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boring_Test_Tunnel [wikipedia.org]

      https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-06-14/elon-musk-s-boring-co-wins-chicago-airport-high-speed-train-bid [bloomberg.com]

    • (Score: 1) by khallow on Monday December 03 2018, @10:03PM (2 children)

      by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Monday December 03 2018, @10:03PM (#769307) Journal

      Tunnel boring is established tech, the principle of which needs no further proof.

      So what? As I noted, that's not what Boring needs to prove. I see you have similar thoughts further on.

      If Boring fouls up in a contract then they can be fired and the job given to another contractor to finish - at least that has been a provision in all civil engineering contracts I have been involved with.

      Unless nobody else has the capabilities to finish that contract at the given price.

      If Musk thinks he has some way of digging faster, fine, try it out under the desert if he must, but he should get the fuck on with it instead of talking.

      You said the principles have already been proven. What more needs to be done? Talk away!

      I'd be unimpressed by such test pieces anyway - the success and speed of tunnel building (as with much civil engineering) depends very much on the geological conditions met and a test piece done elsewhere does not have much relevance.

      So... what is the point to this entire post? First, you complain that tunneling is established tech (even though it's clear that Boring has ambitions beyond just digging holes). Then you complain that Musk is talking instead of tunneling. Now you're complaining that even if he tunnels instead of talks, it won't count because tunneling won't be the same everywhere. Whatever.

      These test tunnels and subsequent construction efforts, if completed successfully, will show that the company is more than just talk.

      • (Score: 2) by Nuke on Monday December 03 2018, @11:37PM (1 child)

        by Nuke (3162) on Monday December 03 2018, @11:37PM (#769336)

        So... what is the point to this entire post?

        My point is that there is no need for further "test tunnels" (eg 405 parallel) because they have already done one (Hawthorne) even if that were needed - given that making tunnels is established tech. The fact that Musk keeps calling these things "test" tunnels after the first suggests to me that he intends that they will become part of regular service tunnels in due course and that he is using the "test" description to sidestep normal planning permission and maybe safety requirements.

        Now you're complaining that even if he tunnels instead of talks, it won't count because tunneling won't be the same everywhere.

        The tunnels will count if he builds them where needed, and I am suggesting that he should get on with doing that instead of talking about "testing". It won't count (ie it will prove nothing not already known) if he digs "test" tunnels where not needed. I also suggested that if he really wants to dig non-functional tunnels for novelty rides and to host dinners to satisfy his love of publicity, or to satisfy himself and backers that tunnelling machines do in principle work (as if they can't look at the rest of the World to see that), then he could do it in the desert or some such place where objections will be fewer.

        I don't see why my points should be so hard to understand. FWIW, as a former engineer for London Underground I am all in favour of building urban subway tunnels and wish Musk luck with it. I am just not impressed with the hype that he spouts and I regard "test tunnels" as irrelevant.

        • (Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday December 04 2018, @10:15AM

          by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday December 04 2018, @10:15AM (#769483) Journal

          My point is that there is no need for further "test tunnels" (eg 405 parallel) because they have already done one (Hawthorne) even if that were needed - given that making tunnels is established tech. The fact that Musk keeps calling these things "test" tunnels after the first suggests to me that he intends that they will become part of regular service tunnels in due course and that he is using the "test" description to sidestep normal planning permission and maybe safety requirements.

          Why is only one test required?

          But having said that, if labeling them "test" gets past bureaucratic nonsense, then bully for him. I guess I'm of the opinion that "safety requirements" != an appropriate level of safety in California. Same goes for planning, something which California is notorious for neglecting. UK/London might be very good on these things, but California is a bunch of crazy nannies. Musk is already taking on extraordinary risk by having so much of his businesses in California.

          The tunnels will count if he builds them where needed, and I am suggesting that he should get on with doing that instead of talking about "testing". It won't count (ie it will prove nothing not already known) if he digs "test" tunnels where not needed. I also suggested that if he really wants to dig non-functional tunnels for novelty rides and to host dinners to satisfy his love of publicity, or to satisfy himself and backers that tunnelling machines do in principle work (as if they can't look at the rest of the World to see that), then he could do it in the desert or some such place where objections will be fewer.

          The "test" tunnels already sound like they're in relatively useful locations and will end up with some sort of transportation system installed.

          I don't see why my points should be so hard to understand. FWIW, as a former engineer for London Underground I am all in favour of building urban subway tunnels and wish Musk luck with it. I am just not impressed with the hype that he spouts and I regard "test tunnels" as irrelevant.

          The problem here is that the news cycle is way ahead of anything physical that Boring can be doing (it'd be a vastly different world if tunneling could proceed at the speed of journalism) and Musk's hype raises funds. It's not going to change because Musk's sexy stories sell.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 04 2018, @11:36AM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 04 2018, @11:36AM (#769496)

    Actually if it's only for his Hyperloop project, why did he have to start a tunnel boring company of his own? It's not as if such a thing didn't exist before, or that such a company would be unwilling to be a subcontractor if Musk ever got a viable contract to build a Hyperloop (they don't even have to care whether the Hyperloop itself will work; they build the tunnel they get paid for, and if Musk then fails to build a viable Hyperloop in that tunnel, it's not their problem).

    • (Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday December 06 2018, @07:43PM

      by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday December 06 2018, @07:43PM (#770810) Journal

      Actually if it's only for his Hyperloop project, why did he have to start a tunnel boring company of his own?

      Because that's how he rolls. He got burned in SpaceX from subcontracting stuff out to sloppy businesses. I guess he doesn't want to go that route.