Stories
Slash Boxes
Comments

SoylentNews is people

posted by takyon on Wednesday December 05 2018, @10:45PM   Printer-friendly
from the everyone-cave-in dept.

With the Australian Labor Party caving in on the proposed encryption law that will allow Australian police and agencies to access private data directly from vendors, the new proposed laws are now agreed in principle to introduce government level snooping of user messages and encrypted files. Agencies like ASIO or the Australian Federal Police will have the ability to request that telecommunications and tech companies help them with their investigations and compel companies to build ways to allow targeted access to encrypted communications data.

Previously: Australian Government Pursues "Golden Key" for Encryption
Five Eyes Governments Get Even Tougher on Encryption
Apple Speaks Out Against Australian Anti-Encryption Law; Police Advised Not to Trigger Face ID
Australia follows New Zealand to demand passwords
New Australian Push For Encryption Backdoor in Wake of Alleged Terrorist Plot


Original Submission

 
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.
Display Options Threshold/Breakthrough Mark All as Read Mark All as Unread
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
  • (Score: 5, Informative) by takyon on Wednesday December 05 2018, @10:58PM (21 children)

    by takyon (881) <reversethis-{gro ... s} {ta} {noykat}> on Wednesday December 05 2018, @10:58PM (#770319) Journal

    If anybody sees any follow-up stories about companies pulling out of Australia because of this, please submit them. I'd like to see a backlash much fiercer than when North Carolina did the bathroom bill [wikipedia.org]. Maybe there aren't enough major tech companies in Australia to make a difference?

    --
    [SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
    Starting Score:    1  point
    Moderation   +3  
       Insightful=1, Informative=2, Total=3
    Extra 'Informative' Modifier   0  
    Karma-Bonus Modifier   +1  

    Total Score:   5  
  • (Score: 3, Interesting) by edIII on Wednesday December 05 2018, @11:13PM (19 children)

    by edIII (791) on Wednesday December 05 2018, @11:13PM (#770324)

    I would say foreign companies are not going to cooperate or stay, but Google is building China's censorship and surveillance systems. Who knows how Twitter and Facebook will react, and other "companies" will be wholly incapable of cooperation like those behind Signal, Telegram, Whisper. None of them are going to just roll over and start baking in backdoor keys into those protocols. Not going to happen. Any zero knowledge platforms and systems just got kicked out of Australia. Is Carbonite going to pony up money to put backdoors into its backup software? Extremely doubtful, and end users won't use that product anymore.

    So realistically, Australia is going to be without Facebook, Twitter, and many others. China may be worth it as a demographic, but Australia is not China.

    --
    Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
    • (Score: 2) by MostCynical on Thursday December 06 2018, @12:18AM (13 children)

      by MostCynical (2589) on Thursday December 06 2018, @12:18AM (#770355) Journal

      Coming soon: special geo-blocked app stores (hold on, we already have that)

      So, will fdroid have to be blocked, as it allows loading of apps that (gasp!) have encryption?

      --
      "I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
      • (Score: 4, Interesting) by edIII on Thursday December 06 2018, @12:27AM (9 children)

        by edIII (791) on Thursday December 06 2018, @12:27AM (#770362)

        Oh, yes. That's the other part of this incredible stupidity. Apple may be locked out of Australia permanently. I don't see them giving enough of a shit, and it would give them fantastic PR elsewhere to fight against this as if Apple had principles at work. Same with Google and Twitter, and the other corporations. Are they going to go after Redhat? Ubuntu? FDroid? Australia won't be able to badger a foreign organization that effectively that doesn't give two shits in the first place. Like Telegram's response to Russia; Suck It!

        Australia will need one hell of a firewall, and a content manager forced on every device, if they think that they can stop people from rolling their own. Point in fact, I don't think they are trying that at all, but instead going with 50k fines when you don't pony up the key. If that's impossible, fine.

        That's what happens when you try outlawing algorithms and math.

        --
        Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
        • (Score: 4, Informative) by Mykl on Thursday December 06 2018, @02:34AM (2 children)

          by Mykl (1112) on Thursday December 06 2018, @02:34AM (#770436)

          The wording is a bit more subtle (which you allude to at the bottom). If you have built something that can't be backdoored reasonably, then the government will leave you alone. This is their get-out-of-jail-free card for Apple to stay in the country. Every politician who voted for this knows they would be consigned to oblivion at the next election if the majority of the public lost their toys.

          • (Score: 2) by edIII on Thursday December 06 2018, @06:20AM (1 child)

            by edIII (791) on Thursday December 06 2018, @06:20AM (#770513)

            So it's all for show? Or to help Apple and the larger companies not have any competition from smaller vendors that have to cave?

            --
            Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
            • (Score: 2) by Mykl on Friday December 07 2018, @01:59AM

              by Mykl (1112) on Friday December 07 2018, @01:59AM (#770990)

              I think it's closer to the government demanding access as long as they think they can get away with it.

        • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Runaway1956 on Thursday December 06 2018, @03:13AM (5 children)

          by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Thursday December 06 2018, @03:13AM (#770456) Journal

          as if Apple had principles at work.

          The funny thing is, I think that Apple does have some underlying principles. They are kind of screwy, and confusing, but yes, they do have principles. Despite the whole cathedral vs the bazaar thing, Apple seems to believe that your data is your data. Few other companies share that principle, although many companies share the cathedral outlook on business.

          It should be evident that I'm no Apple Phanboi, but, yes, some of their policies and actions are pro-consumer / pro-customer.

          • (Score: 2) by takyon on Thursday December 06 2018, @04:19AM (4 children)

            by takyon (881) <reversethis-{gro ... s} {ta} {noykat}> on Thursday December 06 2018, @04:19AM (#770479) Journal
            --
            [SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
            • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Runaway1956 on Thursday December 06 2018, @03:19PM (3 children)

              by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Thursday December 06 2018, @03:19PM (#770672) Journal

              Humorous. Good article, I like it.

              Now, let's contrast Cookie to Gatesie. Did Billy Boy, or any of his subordinates, ever speak out against any evils, other than "pirating" Windows? I know the Gatekeeper moaned and groaned about people not understanding that they needed to PAY FOR MSDOS - ohhhh - I guess I first heard that about MSDOS 3 or so. Now, today, he's a mysogenist, or anthropologist, or philanthropist, or something like that. But, when he was running things, he wanted to hang all of us from the mizzenmast, or the middenmast, or something like that, if we didn't give him heaps of money. And, I'm pretty sure I've never heard Bill make any mention of any of humanity's other vices, or virtues.

              However good or bad Apple might be, they seem to recognize vices and virtues.

              I gotta quit this though. I don't want to be mistaken for an Apple Phanboi, or a Job's Phan. Go ahead, post more Evil Apple stuff. I'll shut up now.

              • (Score: 3, Insightful) by takyon on Thursday December 06 2018, @03:27PM (2 children)

                by takyon (881) <reversethis-{gro ... s} {ta} {noykat}> on Thursday December 06 2018, @03:27PM (#770680) Journal

                Corporations speaking out about social issues is a relatively new trend.

                Apple speaking out about how much they care about your privacy is a marketing move. It may be true, may not always remain true, and might not stop your data from leaking. Their fight with the FBI was the best press they could have had on this issue. But will they always remain "good"?

                --
                [SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
                • (Score: 1) by DECbot on Thursday December 06 2018, @09:49PM (1 child)

                  by DECbot (832) on Thursday December 06 2018, @09:49PM (#770877) Journal

                  Apple wants to protect your data because that means they then retain a monopoly over your data. Thus, if advertiser B wants to know the likelihood you, an iThing user, likes to shop for underwear C, advertiser B knows that they can only go to Apple to buy the data.

                  --
                  cats~$ sudo chown -R us /home/base
                  • (Score: 2) by Mykl on Friday December 07 2018, @02:20AM

                    by Mykl (1112) on Friday December 07 2018, @02:20AM (#770997)

                    Actually, even Apple doesn't know that you like to shop for underwear C.

                    Apple can afford to be privacy focused, because they are in the business of selling hardware, not user data. You're right, their position helps sell more hardware than if they sold data to the highest bidder, so there's no reason for them to change their privacy position any time soon. That's what separates them from Google, Facebook etc, who rely on being data-pimps to survive.

      • (Score: 2) by Hyper on Thursday December 06 2018, @02:00AM (2 children)

        by Hyper (1525) on Thursday December 06 2018, @02:00AM (#770416) Journal

        Didn't the US already try that years ago

        • (Score: 5, Interesting) by edIII on Thursday December 06 2018, @06:36AM (1 child)

          by edIII (791) on Thursday December 06 2018, @06:36AM (#770518)

          What specifically? The US has been at it for some time now, going back to at least the 80s.

          First it was fighting the largest telecom because due process was rigidly enforced and law enforcement felt they couldn't act fast enough and should be on the honor principle instead. This is the true reason why they broke up Ma Bell in the first place, not anti-monopoly laws specifically. Had Ma Bell played ball, I wouldn't be surprised if their monopoly was allowed to continue somehow.

          Then you had shit like CALEA which mandated that all telecoms provide intercept capabilities. There was resistance, till the FBI paid the half billion for the mediation equipment. This is why the entire PSTN network is bugged at the L1 level. That whole AT&T and the room with the fiber going to the NSA.

          When modems were the rage the FBI wanted chips on every modem that allowed them intercept capabilities. Behind the tech curve a little since the Internet was only a few years ahead.

          Once people started using email and Internet aggressively, the FBI called for the Raptor program to have their own servers in every datacenter, every telecom, performing mass collection of all emails, messages, or anything determined to be a communication. They would fucking log Everquest chat at your ISP level.

          More recently you had the FBI arguing that Internet communications fell under Telecom laws, and therefore they didn't have to perform foreplay goddammit and could get straight to the rapin'. FCC still hasn't reclassified it, which is why you have continual attacks on encryption using whatever hyperbole they need to. "Responsible" encryption just means, "stop being private you fuckers! Were the FBI!"

          That's just one of the Three Stooges. There is still the CIA and the NSA. We know now the CIA was Curly, because those idiots couldn't roll a covert comm channel if an agent's life depended on it. That leaves the NSA. All the eggheads that could be like the Justice League with *pow* to that zero-day, *whammo* to another, but fuck that.... let's collect them instead! Give them cool names! Use it on non-foreign targets. Yay! These are the people who weakened a well used CSPRNG so that they had an edge on cryptanalysis that was enough to crack some encryption that people didn't think you could. Not saving American corporations from the zero-day, but looking the other way.

          So, yeah, which attempt and by whom?

          --
          Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
          • (Score: 2) by Hyper on Thursday December 06 2018, @07:40AM

            by Hyper (1525) on Thursday December 06 2018, @07:40AM (#770542) Journal

            The parent was referring to geoblocking stores.
            I was thinking about DVD region blocking. Which has been ruled illegal in some places.
            Further to that, the US placed an embargo on encryption. What will happen this time? You can't export or import encryption based apps? Can't import a phone or computer that doesn't report back home?
            Will AU follow in the steps of USA?

            Those who do not learn from the past..

    • (Score: 4, Funny) by Gaaark on Thursday December 06 2018, @12:31AM (3 children)

      by Gaaark (41) on Thursday December 06 2018, @12:31AM (#770367) Journal

      "So realistically, Australia is going to be without Facebook, Twitter, and many others."

      Go Aussies! :)

      --
      --- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 06 2018, @07:42AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 06 2018, @07:42AM (#770543)

        Suddenly overnight the average iq down under jumps by .5 %

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 06 2018, @02:08PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 06 2018, @02:08PM (#770635)

        No Facebook or Twitter. Possibly no Apple. Throw Microsoft into that last list and Australia may start to be like a piece of heaven.

        • (Score: 2) by Gaaark on Thursday December 06 2018, @05:17PM

          by Gaaark (41) on Thursday December 06 2018, @05:17PM (#770731) Journal

          Amen!

          --
          --- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
    • (Score: 4, Funny) by fido_dogstoyevsky on Thursday December 06 2018, @02:00AM

      by fido_dogstoyevsky (131) <axehandleNO@SPAMgmail.com> on Thursday December 06 2018, @02:00AM (#770417)

      ...Australia is going to be without Facebook, Twitter, and many others...

      So even in the worst of situations there's still SOME good news.

      --
      It's NOT a conspiracy... it's a plot.
  • (Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 05 2018, @11:57PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 05 2018, @11:57PM (#770341)

    And if you don't see those stories, and don't hear about major efforts to bring offerings into compliance with the law ... Is that evidence enough that those major players already have everything back-doored and Australia is only bringing it to light?