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posted by Fnord666 on Saturday December 08 2018, @11:49PM   Printer-friendly
from the surprise dept.

Huawei Arrest Tests China's Leaders as Fear and Anger Grip Elite

The arrest of one of China's leading tech executives by the Canadian police for extradition to the United States has unleashed a combustible torrent of outrage and alarm among affluent and influential Chinese, posing a delicate political test for President Xi Jinping and his grip on the loyalty of the nation's elite.

The outpouring of conflicting sentiments — some Chinese have demanded a boycott of American products while others have expressed anxiety about their investments in the United States — underscores the unusual, politically charged nature of the Trump administration's latest move to counter China's drive for technological superiority.

In a hearing on Friday in Vancouver, Canadian prosecutors said the executive, Meng Wanzhou of the Chinese telecom giant Huawei, faced accusations of participating in a scheme to trick financial institutions into making transactions that violated United States sanctions against Iran.

Unlike a new round of tariffs or more tough rhetoric from American officials, the detention of Ms. Meng, the company's chief financial officer, appears to have driven home the intensifying rivalry between the United States and China in a visceral way for the Chinese establishment — and may force Mr. Xi to adopt a tougher stance against Washington, analysts said. In part, that is because Ms. Meng, 46, is so embedded in that establishment herself.

Previously: Canada Arrests Huawei's Global Chief Financial Officer in Vancouver

Related: New Law Bans U.S. Government from Buying Equipment from Chinese Telecom Giants ZTE and Huawei
Australia Bans China's Huawei (and maybe ZTE) from 5G Mobile Network Project
Washington Asks Allies to Drop Huawei


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  • (Score: 2) by legont on Sunday December 09 2018, @04:31PM (10 children)

    by legont (4179) on Sunday December 09 2018, @04:31PM (#771976)

    The real question is how far Canada is about to go to protect their legal privilege. Note that China, being historically Confucian country, treats the laws differently. Specifically, in Confucian religion a judge decides what the law is and executes it personally. That's because they recognize the limitations of the institution and that understanding allowed them to survive for a way longer as a developed country than any western one. Perhaps it is time for the West to change their ways or at least to get a lesson in diversity.

    In practice, would Canada go all the way protecting her laws, including accepting nuclear strike? I doubt it. Canada will likely to fold.

    --
    "Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
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  • (Score: 2) by Blymie on Sunday December 09 2018, @06:21PM (9 children)

    by Blymie (4020) on Sunday December 09 2018, @06:21PM (#772028)

    You're not even making any sense. A nuclear strike, over a corporate executive?

    If you think China would do that, the what do you think they'll do over sanctions that destroy their economy? Or tariffs?

    And why do you think China wouldn't fear retaliation? You do realise that while Canada isn't a nuclear power, it's the only country in the world that *was* and *gave up* nuclear weapons? You also realise that we literally keep all components on hand, and can build working nuclear weapons in 24 hours, yes?

    Regardless, this is all silly. And frankly, if you think Canada folds on things, you know so little about history... of course, I will say this...

    Few know precisely what a politician might do... in any country.

    Sadly, one thing that might happen, depending upon the economic / other responses from China? Well, Canada has spent decades trying to increase ties with the rest of the world, including increasing trade with China. We don't hate the US, but having all your trade in one basket is just silly.

    Yet if China starts to act improperly over this, if it threatens too much, does the wrong things? It could completely and totally backfire, causing the West to grow closer together, and alienate China.

    • (Score: 2) by legont on Sunday December 09 2018, @07:19PM (5 children)

      by legont (4179) on Sunday December 09 2018, @07:19PM (#772057)

      You're not even making any sense. A nuclear strike, over a corporate executive?

      She is a daughter of a former high level military and security executive. He can not allow anybody to threaten his family. This "can not" is way stronger than Canadian "can not". If he folds, his whole family will be in danger possibly for 7 generations.

      Besides, what would you think happen if say Russia is to arrest Chelsea Clinton?

      --
      "Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
      • (Score: 2) by Blymie on Sunday December 09 2018, @10:31PM (4 children)

        by Blymie (4020) on Sunday December 09 2018, @10:31PM (#772113)

        You're just completely out of your mind. I mean, really.

        You honestly think someone will throw a nuke over that? Even the most simplistic of brains, would realise that would lead to more nukes, not a resolution.

        If China threw a nuke, it'd be nuked with 10x the response. And sanctions. And driven back into the stone age. It would not obtain its goals, and it would lose far more than it would gain.

        I'm trying to figure out if you're a troll, or really believe this.

        • (Score: 2) by legont on Sunday December 09 2018, @10:48PM (3 children)

          by legont (4179) on Sunday December 09 2018, @10:48PM (#772118)

          No, I don't think nukes will fly over this. What I do see though is total ignorance Canada's government as well as Canada's citizens demonstrate. They have no clue whatsoever about the consequences because they do not know the culture they are dealing with.

          Canada will pay for this dearly. I don't know how it will happen, but it will sooner or later. Canada had a choice to avoid this and it passed.

          --
          "Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
          • (Score: 2) by Blymie on Monday December 10 2018, @07:04AM (2 children)

            by Blymie (4020) on Monday December 10 2018, @07:04AM (#772258)

            You assume ignorance, merely because Canada doesn't act the way you wish. Yet it is not ignorance, but purposeful intent.

            You do not keep your democracy, by allowing it to be undermined when you feel stress. In fact, it is *easy* to do the right, the correct, the proper thing when you are not pressured, not stressed, not bothered by external forces.

            The true display of 'grit', if you will, is how one stands when pushed.

            Amusingly however, you think this is a 'big deal'. It isn't. This is a tiny, little, minuscule incident. China can turn this into a larger incident, but if they do?

            I assure you... it will turn out poorly for them, if so.

            Lastly? You seem to be deluded as much as some in China are. I suspect you are either Chinese, or come from a country/culture/upbringing where you just can't understand.

            Politicians in Canada? Have *no* sway here. None. Zero. Nada. No politician can demand her release. Nothing a politician can do, will cause her to be released.

            Judges will not be swayed by political requests, domestic or foreign. They operate 100% independently from the executive branch. The Prime Minister, MPs, can do *nothing*, zero, nada to have her released.

            There are many countries in the world that have a hire rate of corruption, and bribery as a cultural norm.

            We don't. This is the way we *want* it. It is entrenched in how our democracy works.

            • (Score: 2) by legont on Monday December 10 2018, @11:16PM (1 child)

              by legont (4179) on Monday December 10 2018, @11:16PM (#772630)

              Man, you gonna have a few psyche shocks within the next decade.

              China is already bigger than the US in ppp terms. While this measurement might be controversial, it definitely the best one to assess military strenth.

              But fear not, there are less controversial options available. China, for example, could drown Canada in fetanyl so your government would have to build the police state itself to stop it. Opium wars in reverse. Do you think they forgot what your ancestors done to them?

              How could a sane, supposedly peaceful, government get itself in the middle of an ugly fight between superpowers? Of a country that depends on both so much...

              --
              "Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
              • (Score: 2) by Blymie on Tuesday December 11 2018, @12:01AM

                by Blymie (4020) on Tuesday December 11 2018, @12:01AM (#772652)

                You just don't get it, democracy isn't worth a damn, if you don't follow the rule of law.

                The arrest is doing just that.

                All this hand waving, "fear of the future", doesn't matter. It's meaningless. You don't save a democracy, by giving up what makes it such.

                You've blathered on with inane statements in that other thread too.

                You know we've lived beside the US forever, and we certainly don't hesitate to arrest their citizens either. What the hell is wrong with you?

                It's like you think China is special.

    • (Score: 2) by dry on Monday December 10 2018, @02:56AM (2 children)

      by dry (223) on Monday December 10 2018, @02:56AM (#772217) Journal

      You do realise that while Canada isn't a nuclear power, it's the only country in the world that *was* and *gave up* nuclear weapons? You also realise that we literally keep all components on hand, and can build working nuclear weapons in 24 hours, yes?

      Well there's S. Africa, who actually may have tested their nukes and threw them away. And then there are Belarus, Kazakhstan, and Ukraine who inherited nukes when the USSR fell apart and gave them up. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_states_with_nuclear_weapons#States_formerly_possessing_nuclear_weapons [wikipedia.org]

      Besides, Harper gave the Americans most of our plutonium, the bastard.

      • (Score: 2) by Blymie on Monday December 10 2018, @07:10AM (1 child)

        by Blymie (4020) on Monday December 10 2018, @07:10AM (#772260)

        Well, the breakup of the Soviet Union did change things a bit, true. My statement was true at one time, and might be considered true with alterations.

        But the point is -- we didn't truly give them up. We have the parts in storage, they are maintained, we have all of the resources to reassemble them, the knowledge and technical/scientific skill is abundant here.

        They were dismantled to 'make a point' and to appease certain segments of our society. But that doesn't mean the capability is lost -- and it's even placed on hold to make it quick to recover. Very quick.

        • (Score: 2) by dry on Monday December 10 2018, @07:21AM

          by dry (223) on Monday December 10 2018, @07:21AM (#772262) Journal

          While I won't argue that we have the knowledge and skill to build them, I've never heard that we actually built any or have the parts in storage. After WWII, the Americans screwed all their partners, including Canada and it probably took a while before we had the materials and as I said, about 10 years back, forget exactly, we shipped most all our weapons grade plutonium south, or at least that was the news at the time. Personally, it pissed me off as it can be a handy capability which some nations respect.