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posted by martyb on Tuesday December 11 2018, @05:46PM   Printer-friendly
from the water+solar+electrolysis=rocket-fuel-and-oxidizer dept.

The OSIRIS-REx spacecraft, which "arrived" at the asteroid Bennu on December 3 but has been slowly approaching it for weeks, has found evidence of Bennu's interaction with liquid water in the past:

In a conference today, scientists announced that OSIRIS-REx has found evidence of hydrated minerals on the surface of Bennu using its on-board spectrometers - tools used to determine the exact chemical composition of a specific spot.

That means "evidence of liquid water" in Bennu's past, according to Amy Simon, the scientist overseeing OSIRIS-REx's spectral analysis.

"To get hydrated minerals in the first place, to get clays, you have to have water interacting with regular minerals," says Simon. "This is a great surprise."

And they're abundant, too. There's "strong convincing, evidence that the surface is dominated by these hydrated minerals," according to Dante Lauretta, leader of OSIRIS-REx's sample return mission, leading the team to believe Bennu is "water rich".


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  • (Score: 3, Interesting) by DeathMonkey on Tuesday December 11 2018, @06:31PM (16 children)

    by DeathMonkey (1380) on Tuesday December 11 2018, @06:31PM (#772981) Journal

    Nothing says "science illiterate" like claiming that scientists speak in absolutes.

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  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 11 2018, @06:42PM (15 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 11 2018, @06:42PM (#772989)

    At what point do you admit that you've given up empirical evidence in favor of theory?

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 11 2018, @06:43PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 11 2018, @06:43PM (#772991)

      So, you're in favor of empire?

    • (Score: 2) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Tuesday December 11 2018, @06:53PM (6 children)

      by MichaelDavidCrawford (2339) Subscriber Badge <mdcrawford@gmail.com> on Tuesday December 11 2018, @06:53PM (#773000) Homepage Journal

      Theory is _never_ accepted until it's survived falsification _repeatedly_.

      That's why theoreticians don't get Nobel prizes until their predictions are confirmed

      --
      Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 11 2018, @07:19PM (3 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 11 2018, @07:19PM (#773016)

        The Epicycles of Mars an a powerfully predictive tool; they work. Yet, they're wrong.

        • (Score: 2) by HiThere on Tuesday December 11 2018, @11:52PM (2 children)

          by HiThere (866) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday December 11 2018, @11:52PM (#773190) Journal

          Why do you say "They are wrong."? They are correct. They're just quite difficult to compute with, so nobody uses them anymore. But Newtonian physics, which is wrong in exactly the same way (to a smaller degree), is used all the time.

          Most people don't bother to remember that the heliocentric model is wrong. Even the galaxy center isn't fixed in position. But for most calculations, most of the time, it's "good enough". Expecting "absolute truth" is expecting something that the universe is very chintzy about providing.

          --
          Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 12 2018, @04:48AM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 12 2018, @04:48AM (#773301)

            Newtonian physics is used because it is simple to compute. Epicycles are not used because they are annoying to compute. They are used/unused for exactly opposite reasons. Just like people use MOND which is simple algebra instead of lambda-CDM whenever it matters.

            • (Score: 2) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Wednesday December 12 2018, @11:55AM

              by MichaelDavidCrawford (2339) Subscriber Badge <mdcrawford@gmail.com> on Wednesday December 12 2018, @11:55AM (#773407) Homepage Journal

              For centuries, the epicycles were just as accurate as any other functional decomposition to within the errors of naked-eye measurement with the clocks of the day - often the observer's own pulse - and a hand-made transit.

              While Copernicus proposed that the orbits were all circular around the sun, he wasn't actually correct and he had little or no observational evidence.

              Copernicus hired Kepler because he had uncommon sharp eyesight as well as the patience to measure transits for decades. It was only Kepler that was able to determine the orbits were actually elliptical.

              And while I haven't actually tried it, Kepler's measurements could likely have been predicted by an extensive enough epicyclic functional decomposition.

              --
              Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 12 2018, @01:35AM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 12 2018, @01:35AM (#773228)

        Looks like the opposite of a Nobel Peace Prizes:

        Politician: I'm going to pull out of Iraq!
        Nobel: Awesome stuff man! Here's a Peace prize! With a capital 'P'!
        Politician: Thank you. I'm so glad this went to someone so deserving as myself.
        Nobel: You're welcome!
        Politician: Changed my mind, Iraq is a cash cow for the military industrial complex, and they recommend we stay in.
        Nobel: Maybe you should consider giving back the prize?
        Politician: No.
        Nobel: Ok, as you were. Sorry to bother you.

        Nobel Prize for Physics:

        Physicist:
        Nobel: Interesting...
        Other physicists: We've confirmed the results of the physics theory with numerous experiments and studies.
        Nobel: Hmmm...
        More physicists: Really, this shit is earth shatteringly awesome, it's changed the way we approach physical modelling.
        Nobel: Hmmm...
        More physicists: Physicist is old and will probably die soon.
        Nobel: Oh shit... Let's get on this.
        Physicist: Really, my discovery is nothing much, just something I thought up standing on the shoulder of giants far greater than I.
        Nobel: That put's a tear in our eyes. Have this Nobel Prize for Physics! With a capital 'P'!
        Physicist: I'm humbled really, but so many others deserve this prize.
        Nobel:

    • (Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Tuesday December 11 2018, @06:53PM (3 children)

      by DeathMonkey (1380) on Tuesday December 11 2018, @06:53PM (#773001) Journal

      How about you provide some empirical evidence of a scientist ever saying an asteroid could never have any water on it.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 11 2018, @07:21PM (2 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 11 2018, @07:21PM (#773017)

        Anyway, read about the "standard" theory of star-system formation, particular the theory of the solar system's formation.

        The evidence keeps proving it wrong.

        • (Score: 2) by HiThere on Wednesday December 12 2018, @12:00AM (1 child)

          by HiThere (866) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday December 12 2018, @12:00AM (#773193) Journal

          The last I heard there were three or four major theories in contention for how solar systems came into being. There wasn't one "standard model". Even if there had been, the replacement of one model with another isn't anything to be upset about. The verifiable predictions of the old model keep working under the new one. And as for the ones that weren't verifiable, that's why you shouldn't trust unverifiable predictions.

          FWIW, one of the big problems with humanity is the demand for belief in things that there isn't sufficient evidence for. It's one thing to use theories as useful tools. That's reasonable, necessary, etc. Belief is something else, that should usually be avoided. Estimates of probability, that's valuable, even if often wrong, but don't go around believing in things even after you test them repeatedly. The sun will probably rise tomorrow sometime within the next 24 hours, but I don't need to believe it. I get just as much, or more, utility out of considering it a useful prediction about the future.

          --
          Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 12 2018, @04:31PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 12 2018, @04:31PM (#773504)

            The government forces people to fund scientists with competing ideas.

            After 100s of billions of dollars, it would be unconscionable to have to admit that the universe is not, in fact, filled with dark matter liquid.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 11 2018, @07:09PM (2 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 11 2018, @07:09PM (#773009)

      You present it as some kind of dichotomy. How can you have science without both?

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 11 2018, @07:24PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 11 2018, @07:24PM (#773018)

        There's no way to interpret the AC's remarks as presenting a dichotomy.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 12 2018, @04:05AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 12 2018, @04:05AM (#773286)

          Wow, dude. Loosen up. You live in a world of total absolutes.

          You should try some of that legal weed if it's available where you're at. You could benefit.

          I also recommend a spirit journey. I didn't really understand who or what I was, other than book knowledge, until I went on one.