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posted by martyb on Wednesday December 12 2018, @03:04AM   Printer-friendly
from the communications-issues dept.

Michael Kovrig, former Canadian diplomat, reportedly arrested in China

A former Canadian diplomat has reportedly been arrested in China. The International Crisis Group said Tuesday it's aware of reports that its North East Asia senior adviser Michael Kovrig has been detained.

The Brussels-based non-governmental organization said in a statement it's doing everything possible to obtain additional information about Kovrig's whereabouts and that it will work to ensure his prompt release.

The Globe and Mail in Toronto and the Canadian Broadcasting Corp. reported the arrest, citing unnamed sources.

Reports of Kovrig's detention come after China warned Canada of consequences for its recent arrest of Huawei executive Meng Wanzhou at Vancouver's airport. It's unclear if there's any link between the cases.

Some Chinese companies ban iPhones, require Huawei after CFO's arrest: report

Some Chinese companies are banning iPhones and requiring that their employees use Huawei products following the arrest of Huawei's chief financial officer, according to a new Yahoo News report. Meng Wanzhou, the CFO of Chinese telecom giant Huawei, was arrested by Canadian authorities last Saturday at the request of the U.S. after allegedly violating trade sanctions against Iran. Chinese officials have strongly protested Meng's detention.

Now, Chinese companies are promoting Huawei and barring Apple, an American company. Menpad, an LCD display maker and Huawei supplier, on Monday said it will punish employees who buy iPhones with a fine equivalent to the American smartphone's market price, the South China Morning Post reported. It also vowed that the company will no longer buy American products, including office supplies and computers, and will offer a 15 percent subsidy for employees who are buying Huawei phones, according to the Post.

Japan's top three telcos to exclude Huawei, ZTE network equipment: Kyodo

Japan's big three telecom operators plan not to use current equipment and upcoming fifth-generation (5G) gear from China's Huawei Technologies Co Ltd and ZTE Corp, Kyodo News reported on Monday.

The news, for which Kyodo did not cite sources, comes at a time of heightened scrutiny of Chinese tech firms by Washington and some prominent allies over ties to the Chinese government, driven by concerns they could be used by Beijing for spying. Last week sources told Reuters that Japan planned to ban government purchases of equipment from Huawei and ZTE to ensure strength in its defences against intelligence leaks and cyber attacks.

See also: How Meng Wanzhou's Arrest Might Backfire

Previously: Canada Arrests Huawei's Global Chief Financial Officer in Vancouver
Arrest of Huawei Executive Causing Discontent Among Chinese Elites

Related: New Law Bans U.S. Government from Buying Equipment from Chinese Telecom Giants ZTE and Huawei
Australia Bans China's Huawei (and maybe ZTE) from 5G Mobile Network Project
Washington Asks Allies to Drop Huawei


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  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 12 2018, @03:07AM (27 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 12 2018, @03:07AM (#773266)

    The Chinese do take this kind of stuff personally, and if the US doesn't resolve this real quick, US businesspeople, students and tourists are going to be Red Cornered all over the People's Republic.
    ...
    What goes for the US goes for their running dogs, the Canadians, too.

    Told you so.

  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by khallow on Wednesday December 12 2018, @04:08AM (24 children)

    by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday December 12 2018, @04:08AM (#773289) Journal
    If China really retaliated for Meng Wanzhou, then they just escalated a conflict with the US to Canada. I don't see your reason for tough talk here. If there really is evidence of fraud, it's a losing battle to defend her, particularly with the capricious arrests of foreign nationals from countries other than the US.
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 12 2018, @04:45AM (4 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 12 2018, @04:45AM (#773300)
      It's all politics. When a politician says "fraud" it means whatever he wants it to mean. The Ecuadorian Hermit got indicted by Sweden for unprotected sex, but we know better.
      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by khallow on Wednesday December 12 2018, @05:17AM (3 children)

        by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday December 12 2018, @05:17AM (#773312) Journal

        When a politician says "fraud"

        We'll see who else ends saying "fraud" as well. A jury saying that is a very different matter.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 12 2018, @05:29AM (2 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 12 2018, @05:29AM (#773321)
          If the US jury says "fraud", then a Chinese people's court will sentence a US citizen for the same charge. They cannot care less what twelve US citizens believed to.
          • (Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday December 12 2018, @05:58AM (1 child)

            by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday December 12 2018, @05:58AM (#773325) Journal

            They cannot care less what twelve US citizens believed to.

            They can't care less than to make a public demonstration, no doubt with weeks of media coverage, that they care enough to stage a fake court trial, that is. That is a great deal of care.

            If they truly couldn't care any less, then there would be no response at all.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 12 2018, @09:23PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 12 2018, @09:23PM (#773690)

              As fake as the "trials" are in the US. We seem to be staging a lot of them. They all appear to have a certain "give me six lines" theme to them.

    • (Score: 2) by richtopia on Wednesday December 12 2018, @07:34AM (18 children)

      by richtopia (3160) on Wednesday December 12 2018, @07:34AM (#773352) Homepage Journal

      Meng was arrested in Canada. I suspect this is more of a tit-for-tat, and a message to Canada to stay out of the trade dispute politics.

      • (Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday December 12 2018, @02:58PM (17 children)

        by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday December 12 2018, @02:58PM (#773456) Journal
        Of course, it is. But the US has a lot of treaties with a lot of countries. Is China going to absurdly tit-for-tat every time, potentially pulling in many other countries into the trade dispute while simultaneously futilely sending out that "message"?
        • (Score: 3, Interesting) by bob_super on Wednesday December 12 2018, @05:59PM (16 children)

          by bob_super (1357) on Wednesday December 12 2018, @05:59PM (#773564)

          Other countries will just happen to have to verify whether that US warrant is printed in the right font and on A4 paper while ... oops ... the Chinese citizen already departed. What a stroke of bad luck !

          When the US president is busy insulting or picking fights with most of the World, the Chinese are busy leveraging their soft power and their money. When you need allies to make decisions that could piss off one of the two sides, details matter.

          • (Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday December 12 2018, @09:56PM (15 children)

            by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday December 12 2018, @09:56PM (#773710) Journal

            Other countries will just happen to have to verify whether that US warrant is printed in the right font and on A4 paper while ... oops ... the Chinese citizen already departed. What a stroke of bad luck !

            Because they didn't really need an international treaty system anyway, amirite? The point here is that the US made a legitimate request. They're merely following the law. Then we repeatedly have this insistence that because China is a bad actor, we should not follow the law. It doesn't make sense.

            • (Score: 2) by bob_super on Wednesday December 12 2018, @10:24PM (14 children)

              by bob_super (1357) on Wednesday December 12 2018, @10:24PM (#773731)

              The subtle and complex art of diplomacy includes knowing when to make exceptions, look away, or make mistakes to get to a result that satisfies some without angering others.
              And then keep a list, for when it's your turn to need a mistake.

              • (Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday December 12 2018, @10:46PM (13 children)

                by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday December 12 2018, @10:46PM (#773745) Journal

                The subtle and complex art of diplomacy includes knowing when to make exceptions, look away, or make mistakes to get to a result that satisfies some without angering others. And then keep a list, for when it's your turn to need a mistake.

                Like the "subtle diplomacy" that led to the Second World War? Throwing away basic principles of your society in order to appease the powerful just might have a few unintended consequences.

                • (Score: 2) by bob_super on Wednesday December 12 2018, @10:51PM (12 children)

                  by bob_super (1357) on Wednesday December 12 2018, @10:51PM (#773748)

                  "knowing when to"

                  • (Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday December 12 2018, @10:56PM (11 children)

                    by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday December 12 2018, @10:56PM (#773750) Journal

                    "knowing when to"

                    That you're still posting indicates to me that you don't know when to.

                    • (Score: 2) by bob_super on Wednesday December 12 2018, @11:10PM (10 children)

                      by bob_super (1357) on Wednesday December 12 2018, @11:10PM (#773758)

                      And there I thought we were just having a civil disagreement...

                      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 12 2018, @11:23PM (2 children)

                        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 12 2018, @11:23PM (#773767)

                        You are talking to khallow. He/she/it pretends to be civil as a strategy for "winning", but there is very little critical thinking going on there. The goal is to keep poking away at your statements till you get upset, then they can claim the moral and logical high ground.

                        As you can see here they make zero attempt to understand nuances in the debate and simply hold to their agenda.

                        • (Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday December 13 2018, @02:57PM (1 child)

                          by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday December 13 2018, @02:57PM (#773960) Journal

                          The goal is to keep poking away at your statements till you get upset, then they can claim the moral and logical high ground.

                          Even if that were true, it's a game you can't play. Once again, we have the posts by an AC about mean-ole khallow and how he's keeping us from having fun or something.

                          The problem here is that this is a matter of law not a matter of diplomacy. And bob_super is proposing to corrupt this whole system of law merely to let a powerful, rich person free. Not only that, it works against his very principles. For example, he had this to say about the state of the world:

                          For the last 229 years, most of the powerful have learnt to let enough crumbs fall off the table to help keep their privileges and necks intact. We are reaching another high point of discontent, and the move to misdirect the anger is still working (spearheaded by one of the privileged, can't blame him for thinking it's a genius move). A bit more wage growth is required to buy the peace, since gas is going up and we haven't launched the next war yet.

                          What happens the next hundred times this occurs? How much "discontent" is that going to build up?

                      • (Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday December 12 2018, @11:35PM (6 children)

                        by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday December 12 2018, @11:35PM (#773777) Journal

                        And there I thought we were just having a civil disagreement...

                        We are. But the key problem here is that your "diplomacy" would compromise a key part of Canada and the US's society, its rule of law, merely to placate temporarily some rich person who happens to have some pull with the Chinese government. You can talk about how "subtle and complex" it is, but the bottom line is that you're throwing all that away for nothing.

                        • (Score: 2) by bob_super on Wednesday December 12 2018, @11:45PM (5 children)

                          by bob_super (1357) on Wednesday December 12 2018, @11:45PM (#773783)

                          You must be new at world affairs.

                          • (Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday December 13 2018, @02:20PM (4 children)

                            by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday December 13 2018, @02:20PM (#773954) Journal
                            And you just don't seem to get what happens when you create a permanent, corrupt precedent for the sake of an imaginary one-time benefit.
                            • (Score: 2) by bob_super on Thursday December 13 2018, @05:39PM (3 children)

                              by bob_super (1357) on Thursday December 13 2018, @05:39PM (#774041)

                              As I said: You must be new.
                              That precedent was set a long long time ago. Before US presidents set up coups in other countries. Before Truman dropped two A-bombs. Before W ordered people tortured.

                              • (Score: 1) by khallow on Friday December 14 2018, @04:50AM (2 children)

                                by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Friday December 14 2018, @04:50AM (#774274) Journal

                                That precedent was set a long long time ago. Before US presidents set up coups in other countries. Before Truman dropped two A-bombs. Before W ordered people tortured.

                                And yet, you still don't seem to get it. You're backtracking on your own beliefs [soylentnews.org], not merely beliefs you don't really care about.

                                • (Score: 2) by bob_super on Friday December 14 2018, @05:41PM (1 child)

                                  by bob_super (1357) on Friday December 14 2018, @05:41PM (#774478)

                                  Oh, I see. You're confused.
                                  This thread is an acknowledgment of realpolitik.
                                  That doesn't mean I'm happy with it.
                                  Don't mistake pointing out that the powerful will play their games, for not wanting to see many of them have a Battle Royale in retribution for doing so.

                                  • (Score: 1) by khallow on Friday December 14 2018, @11:48PM

                                    by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Friday December 14 2018, @11:48PM (#774609) Journal

                                    This thread is an acknowledgment of realpolitik. That doesn't mean I'm happy with it.

                                    Cognitive dissonance does that.

                                    Don't mistake pointing out that the powerful will play their games, for not wanting to see many of them have a Battle Royale in retribution for doing so.

                                    Sometimes we have to do things that we don't want to do. I think this is one of those cases.

  • (Score: 0, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 12 2018, @05:14AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 12 2018, @05:14AM (#773309)

    Movies turned to shit when the (((executives))) started pursuing the Chinese market.

    Hopefully they'll be forced to satisfy Western audiences again.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 12 2018, @08:10PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 12 2018, @08:10PM (#773642)

    The Chinese do take this kind of stuff personally, and if the US doesn't resolve this real quick, US businesspeople, students and tourists are going to be Red Cornered all over the People's Republic.
    ...
    What goes for the US goes for their running dogs, the Canadians, too.

    Told you so.

    No kidding. Is there anyone who did not see this coming? Anyone?