Submitted via IRC for Bytram
Apple announces plan to build $1 billion campus in Texas
Apple will build a $1 billion campus in Austin, Texas, and establish smaller new locations in Seattle, San Diego and Culver City, California, the company said Thursday. The tech giant based in Cupertino, California, says the new campus in Austin will start with 5,000 employees working in engineering, research and development, operations, finance, sales and customer support. It will be less than a mile from existing Apple facilities.
The other new locations will have more than 1,000 employees each.
Austin already is home to more than 6,000 Apple employees, representing the largest population of the company's workers outside of Apple's Cupertino headquarters, where most of its roughly 37,000 California employees work.
[...] The company also said it plans to expand in Pittsburgh, New York and Colorado over the next three years.
Apple press release. Also at CNET.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Thursday December 13 2018, @02:29PM (24 children)
I man can't walk down the street in Cupertino anymore with tripping over a White Badge with an expensive haircut and thrift-store clothes.
I quite confidently wager that for every billion Tim spends in Austin, he'll get two from each of the city, Travis County and the State Of Texas.
I don't really list Apple at Soggy Jobs yet as I got hung up some manner of problem with their internal job board, but then from time to time I get hung up by the Common Cold. In both cases I get better then carry on.
Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 13 2018, @03:08PM (22 children)
If anything, the global phenomenon of such tax "concessions" is an admission that taxation is a terrible system by which to organize society's resources.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Thexalon on Thursday December 13 2018, @03:15PM (12 children)
No, it's an admission that corporations have so much power that governments have to grovel before their feet in the hopes of creating some number of jobs for their constituents. You can see no better demonstration of this grovelling then the efforts hundreds of municipalities in the US made trying to woo Jeff Bezos.
Or depending on the details of the deal, it's an admission that politicians are corrupt enough that they're happy to trade money from the public treasury for some sort of kickback from said corporations.
I should also point out that those with the viewpoint you just describe seem to really think that society's resources ought not to be organized.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 13 2018, @03:51PM (7 children)
That is the fundamental point that you are missing.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Thexalon on Thursday December 13 2018, @04:20PM (6 children)
If you really believe taxation is stealing, you're welcome to move to a location where there is no government, and thus won't be subject to taxation. Some places where this is an option:
- A boat in the Pacific Ocean.
- A war zone of your choice.
- Antarctica.
If instead you're living in a place with roads and mail delivery and a fire department, somebody has to pay for those things, and that means either you're paying taxes to a government to do them, or you're paying some kind of private entity to do them. And I know you're about to comment that you have to pay the government while you choose to pay the private entity, but that isn't really true: For the simple example of roads, what are you going to do, pay the private company that controls the road to your house what they want you to pay, or never drive to your house?
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 13 2018, @05:45PM (2 children)
"For the simple example of roads, what are you going to do, pay the private company that controls the road to your house what they want you to pay, or never drive to your house?"
So many logical fallacies in one sentence, I can't name them all... Good Show!
1) Assumes that all private ownership of roads must be by an unrelated "private company" (perhaps I own my house and my road, like so many examples today)
2) Assumes that all private companies are for-profit entities. Ignores possibility of not-for-profit, co-ops, etc. (perhaps the neighborhood association owns all the roads in the neighborhood, like gated communities do today)
3) Assumes that you need to drive to your house. (perhaps not a necessity for a walkable/bikeable urban/sub-urban environment. isn't this what all the government-first/statist-types want anyway?)
4) Assumes that a private road company can't be regulated like any other utility monopoly
5) Assumes that we will always need roads (flying cars are right around the corner :) )
I could see all sorts of unique financial models pop up to allocate the true cost of a road (again don't the statist-types complain that we are unfairly subsidizing cars via road building and maintenance):
All you can eat model:
1) homeowner/business pays connection fee to neighborhood/business park association
2) neighborhood/business park association pays connection fees to feeder road owners
3) feeder road owners pays connection fees to regional highway or national highway owners, etc.
-yearly connection cost determined by how much average load you put into the network
-once your endpoint is connected, your vehicles are free to transit the entire network
...just like the internet
Pay per use:
1) get a toll transponder and get tracked and billed for how much you use each private road
2) toll rates set by vehicle type and popularity of road
3) all sorts of discounting and incentives could happen (ex. take "my" road before 7AM and get a 10p discount per mi)
(statist-types would love this)
Some combination of both?
(Score: 3, Informative) by bob_super on Thursday December 13 2018, @06:52PM
That level of stupid hurts.
(Score: 2) by Thexalon on Thursday December 13 2018, @11:27PM
And who gets to control the neighborhood/business park association?
There are 2 possibilities:
1. They're chosen by some body of people, say everybody who lives in the neighborhood.
2. They're self-appointed and have somehow and mysteriously acquired the power to levy a connection fee on the roads.
If you have a neighborhood/business park association with the power to set up and manage roads and force people to pay for said roads under control (via their votes) of the people who live in the neighborhood, how is that different from a municipal or township government with the power to set up and manage roads and force people to pay for said roads under the control (via their votes) of the people who live in the neighborhood? And don't give me "The government can use force, the neighborhood association can't." What do you think will ultimately happen if you don't pay your fees but keep on driving on the roads?
One final point: Real-life neighborhood associations (usually called "homeowners associations" or HOAs) are often far more draconian than anything the government comes up with. For example, there have been cases where HOA rule violations have led to people going to jail for a bad front lawn [slate.com]. And of course you'll argue that there wouldn't be jail time for that if the government wasn't involved, but (a) the government wouldn't have acted at all had the HOA not insisted, and (B) the government didn't come up with those rules nor were they primarily responsible for enforcing them, the HOA did. Your local zoning board almost definitely doesn't care if you choose to paint your garage neon green, but you can bet that your HOA does.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 13 2018, @05:57PM (1 child)
places with taxation and government have been successful despite the parasites, not because of them. try to pry the brain slug from your head before posting.
(Score: 2) by Thexalon on Thursday December 13 2018, @11:29PM
If you think taxation and government simply holds a society back, then I have a simple challenge for you: Name a place with no taxation or government that has become successful and remained so for an extended period, say at least a decade.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Thursday December 13 2018, @10:08PM
- A war zone of your choice.
Hell, even some war zones still collect taxes.
I read an interesting article a while back about some of the ISIS controlled territories and how they were actually running a government including garbage collection, wastewater treatment, etc., and collecting taxes.
I don't think this is the same article but it seems to cover the same ground: The ISIS Files: When Terrorists Run City Hall [nytimes.com]
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 13 2018, @03:58PM (1 child)
You write:
In 1850, Bastiat rebutted this point directly [bastiat.org]:
Glorious!
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Thexalon on Thursday December 13 2018, @04:24PM
Alrighty. So let's say that government isn't organizing society's resources. You've gotten what you want. Congratulations.
But you also are clear that you want society's resources to be organized in some way.
So who or what is organizing society's resources? Who or what is preventing people from ignoring that organization of society's resources for their own personal gain? Because as far as I can tell, it seems like the only answer anarchists of various kinds can offer is pixie dust and magic.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 13 2018, @05:44PM (1 child)
If you could bring a magic rock into your city that would bring jobs to the people, what would you pay for it?
(Score: 2) by Thexalon on Thursday December 13 2018, @11:36PM
Nothing, on the grounds that whoever is trying to sell me a magic job-creating rock is almost definitely lying about the merchandise.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Azuma Hazuki on Thursday December 13 2018, @05:15PM (4 children)
Do you have a job? Because for someone who's so gung-ho about labor and capital and free trade, you don't seem to be producing anything of value :)
Daily reminder that until you can point us to a foolproof contract-enforcing system, we're always going to need government. I'm never going to let you forget this. So bring on the infinite stack of contract-enforcing angels, or STFU and GTFO.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 13 2018, @06:07PM (2 children)
it's called smart contract. it enforces itself.
(Score: 4, Funny) by DeathMonkey on Thursday December 13 2018, @06:20PM
it enforces itself.
It gave the guy tearing it up a nasty papercut?
(Score: 3, Funny) by Azuma Hazuki on Thursday December 13 2018, @06:42PM
Oh, DO explain how this works :) Is the paper sentient? Does it call down holy wrath upon those who violate it? This should be hilarious...
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 13 2018, @08:43PM
Politically I agree with your position that government is needed to prevent market abuses, including breaking contracts. However, to answer your question...
It doesn't need to be foolproof, just "good enough." To that end, one "good enough" system is a reputation system.
For example, consider how tour groups operate in Egypt.
A tour company calls up tour guides and tells them that they'll pay if they do a daily tour. The tour guide does the tour, and gets paid. However, by nature of the business, they never have a formal contract. As such, if the the tour company doesn't pay, there is literally nothing the tour guide can do to collect money.
However, that tour guide will never do business with the tour company again. Moreover, all the guides know each other, and the jilted guide will spread the bad word. A couple of these and the company will never be able to find a tour guide in the future, and will go out of business.
So there, the question of contract enforcement without government is solved. (It's the same mechanism which causes bad restaurants to go out of business. People just don't like them and stop going there.)
What I can't answer, though, is "how will you prevent factories from dumping toxic sludge into the river," or "how will you prevent a person with a gun from stealing all of your food?"
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 13 2018, @05:19PM (2 children)
I thought taxes were a way to raise money to pay for things that people wanted from the government. If there's another way to get those things, what's the problem?
(Score: 2) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Thursday December 13 2018, @06:16PM
... as is evidenced by the multiply nested replies to one simple comment subject.
Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
(Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Thursday December 13 2018, @06:23PM
If there's another way to get those things, what's the problem?
Is there another way to get me to NOT dump a bunch of hazardous waste in your backyard, for example?
(Score: 2) by crafoo on Friday December 14 2018, @01:51AM
But it's not a terrible system. Taxation is a fair and reasonable system in a cohesive society that values truth, honesty, progress, and celebrates people who take on responsibility willingly. Once such a society fractures and "progresses" away from these value systems things get evil pretty quickly. Humans are communal. We have the most success when we operate together, collectively, towards common goals. Taxation in this environment is sensible and good.
(Score: 2) by driverless on Friday December 14 2018, @01:30AM
That was my immediate reaction as well, that the title should really read "Texas agrees to subsidise/rebate/write-down/slushfund Apple $5 billion to build $1 billion campus in Texas".