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posted by takyon on Monday December 17 2018, @03:08PM   Printer-friendly
from the don't-panic dept.

ArsTechnica:

London's Metropolitan Police Service will be testing facial recognition technology in a handful of locations across the central core of the British capital on both Monday and Tuesday for eight hours each day.

This trial marks the seventh such trial in London since 2016. In addition to the December 17-18 tests, authorities have said there will be three more tests that have yet to be scheduled.

Time to break out the Guy Fawkes masks, Londoners.


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  • (Score: 3, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 17 2018, @03:20PM (13 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 17 2018, @03:20PM (#775410)

    They built rockets in order to perfect the intercontinental delivery of nuclear warheads.

    That is, the public reasoning is always a disguise for the ulterior motive.

    Similarly, this has nothing to do with recognition. Rather, the purpose of these systems is to gather faces in a way that allows for determining exactly where everyone is at any time; the recognition part is simply the ability to cross-references the faces that appear at 2 separate events.

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  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 17 2018, @03:23PM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 17 2018, @03:23PM (#775412)

    Science for the purpose of war is still science.

    Facial recognition for the purpose of tracking everyone is facial recognition.

    • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 17 2018, @03:30PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 17 2018, @03:30PM (#775417)

      The OP never said otherwise.

      If you told people that the government was going to spend their money building systems for world-wide destruction, there might be a more robust discussion about that.

      If you told them their money was being used to spy on them, and to gather their faces for such analysis, then you might also get more of a robust discussion on the role/power of government.

      That's the point.

  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by SomeGuy on Monday December 17 2018, @03:47PM (7 children)

    by SomeGuy (5632) on Monday December 17 2018, @03:47PM (#775423)

    Even cross referencing against two data points is rather small thinking.

    Every time I try to explain any kind of electronic tracking to people, regardless it is Facebook, facial recognition, store "loyalty/discount" tracking cards, or whatever they can only see the immediate information in front of then. (Hence the thinking they have nothing to hide, so it is all OK.)

    The real, long term, goal of all data tracking involves aggregating data over billions, trillions or hojillions of data points over long periods of time.

    The question might not be "where was this person on this night?", but "on average, where were people in this group on every Thursday since this system went in to place many years ago?", or taking it even further, "based on statistical modeling and historical data, where will each one of the people in this group likely be at a given time or set of times?". Or yet even further "based on the current modeling plus new parameters, identify possible new groups of similar people". Really, it goes on and on, deeper and deeper.

    I mean why wouldn't someone want a system that could identify groups of potential terroristic, anti-patriotic, or just "undesirable" groups before they cause problems and nip it in the bud, so to speak. Why, the use does not even have to be that cut-and-dry, it could be used for highly targeted, highly optimized propaganda distribution, subtly changing political opinions, or much, much more.

    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Monday December 17 2018, @07:39PM (6 children)

      by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Monday December 17 2018, @07:39PM (#775511) Journal

      Agreed. You're right on track. But, fall back just a little bit, and ask another question, which will lead off onto a new tangent.

      Why is the government busily importing immigrants with totally different religion, values, and expectations from government? Why is the government apparently trying to displace the Anglo, Celts, Welsh, Normans, etc who make up the United Kingdom population? Just who is the "undesirable" here?

      Consider that, as you step back forward in your thinking. You might conclude that, A. government KNOWS that they are allowing extremely undesirable immigrants into the country, and that's why they need surveillance or B. government doesn't trust it's own native citizens, so they have to watch those citizens until they are replaced. I leave it to you to come up with C. D. and E. or some combination thereof.

      That tangent I mentioned will bring you right back to where you already were, but it may fill in a lot of missing details.

      • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 17 2018, @08:16PM (5 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 17 2018, @08:16PM (#775533)

        *Crazy person warning*

        Your anti-immigrant conspiracy theories are nothing new, for thousands of years the more cowardly humans have long feared anyone and anything different from their daily experience.

        • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Monday December 17 2018, @08:47PM

          by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Monday December 17 2018, @08:47PM (#775549) Journal

          I take it then, that you approved of the Nazis. And, Imperial Japan. And, you are accepting of Sharia law, and chop-chop square.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 17 2018, @09:45PM (3 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 17 2018, @09:45PM (#775575)

          These aren't just people immigrating through voluntary interaction.

          Rather, the native population is funding the re-location and welfare of these people who otherwise wouldn't be able to integrate on their own, and these people are also extremely fertile relative to the native population.

          There was a referendum to leave the EU, but there was no referendum on whether so many immigrants should be brought into the country. Explain these things.

          • (Score: 2) by deimtee on Monday December 17 2018, @11:25PM (1 child)

            by deimtee (3272) on Monday December 17 2018, @11:25PM (#775618) Journal

            The EU exit is a necessary precursor. While still in the EU it would be pointless to talk about limiting immigration as the EU rules didn't allow the UK to do so. The EU has free movement across its member states. Being able to control their borders again was a massive part of why Brexit passed.

            --
            If you cough while drinking cheap red wine it really cleans out your sinuses.
            • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday December 18 2018, @08:53AM

              by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday December 18 2018, @08:53AM (#775762) Journal

              Being necessary, it doesn't mean it will be sufficient. I.e. the brexit may still happen without the immigration going down.

              --
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 18 2018, @07:49PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 18 2018, @07:49PM (#776006)

            "and these people are also extremely fertile relative to the native population"

            Their so FERTILE Steve! You don't even know. I once looked at one of those dark hairy men and became impregnated on the spot!! I'm still not sure why they think my name is Sharia.

  • (Score: 3, Funny) by DannyB on Monday December 17 2018, @08:00PM (2 children)

    by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Monday December 17 2018, @08:00PM (#775524) Journal

    Similarly, this has nothing to do with recognition. Rather, the purpose of these systems is [. . .] determining exactly where everyone is at any time;

    That sounds like a wonderful, useful and completely harmless reason.

    Computer: Where is Capt'n Picard?

    It's difficult to imagine a way this could be misused.

    --
    People today are educated enough to repeat what they are taught but not to question what they are taught.
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 17 2018, @10:06PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 17 2018, @10:06PM (#775589)

      Computer, Where is
      Computer: At [his mistresses].
      ...
      Really? Hard to imagine?

      Access will be biased - whoever is in power has access, and those without don't. Now, if it was all perfectly open and acessible, and everyone had equal access to the data, and computing power to process it, then it might be less of an issue. But still a big step from where we are.

      • (Score: 3, Funny) by DannyB on Tuesday December 18 2018, @02:40PM

        by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday December 18 2018, @02:40PM (#775833) Journal

        Your sarcasm detector needs servicing.

        --
        People today are educated enough to repeat what they are taught but not to question what they are taught.