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posted by
martyb
on Wednesday December 19 2018, @04:34AM
from the now-they're-buying...trucks? dept.
from the now-they're-buying...trucks? dept.
General Motors has announced it's shuttering five production facilities and killing six vehicle platforms by the end of 2019 as it reallocates resources towards self-driving technologies and electric vehicles.
[...] North American car production hit 17.5 million vehicles in 2016, and dropped marginally to 17.2 million in 2017. Interesting, but perhaps not significant.
More telling are changes in driver behaviour. In North America, for example, fewer teens are getting driver's licences. In 1983, 92 per cent of teens were licensed, while by 2014, that number had dropped to 77 per cent. In Germany, the number of new licences issued to drivers aged 17 to 25 has dropped by 300,000 over the last 10 years.
Are we over our love affair with cars?
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Hey, wait a minute!! I want a divorce!! ... you're not Clint Eastwood!!
(Score: 3, Insightful) by istartedi on Wednesday December 19 2018, @08:12PM (5 children)
If you're *routinely* transporting plywood and 16 ft. siding then of course you need a truck. OTOH, I'm not a contractor and rarely need to do such things. When I do, I'll rent a truck and rental is dirt cheap vs. having to fill up a truck all the time. Not to mention, I enjoy being able to park and negotiate curves without flipping. My hatchback can even handle light DIY hauls. I recently put a few 12 ft. deck boards in there. I only had about 3 feet hanging out the back because I was able to get the boards past the fold-down seats. I wouldn't want to do it with a new car, but mine is 11 years old now and has been doing all kinds of light hauls. A 1/8 cord of wood fits in there, no problem. I could always have a full cord delivered if I really need it, by a guy with a truck who really needs it because... he makes money delivering wood.
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(Score: 1) by Sulla on Wednesday December 19 2018, @09:19PM (4 children)
What kind of hatchback do you have? First one that came to mind was outback because I read outback instead of hatchback my first read through, its gas mileage averages 24. My v8 F150 gets an average of 20. My v8 has abnormally high mpg, but the ecoboosts are getting that in a full size pickup. If we assume 12k miles a year, my pickup costs me an extra 100 gallons of gas a year over the outback. 300-400 bucks in gas is greatly worth the added convenience for getting tasks done without needing to worry about renting a truck, trailer, or paying for delivery. If we are talking a vehicle that can average 30mpg, then you are saving 200 gallons a year over a truck. The differences become more sizable at this point but if you have ATVs, a boat, or are going through a home renovation I would still rather pay an extra 600 bucks that year than deal with the hassle of renting or delivery.
My family size is currently at 5+dog. We could all get into a hatchback but really what you need at that point is a van. Pretty much all the minivans out there at this point (odyssey gets 23mpg @ 30k starting, sienna gets 22mpg @ 34k starting) get the same gas mileage as pickups and are the same starting price. The F150 is 8 inches wider than the outback, so an extra ~2.5 inches per kid to fight over. Fitting and getting around three car seats is significantly easier in my extended cab longbed pickup than it is in my wife's minivan or mom's elantra.
Followup- i got the number for the outbacks gas mileage from one of those report-your-mileage sites. Their official literature says 25-32. Some additional information on the outback, as I have always understood them to be good vehicles.
I recently did some work in my yard and added two large square garden layouts. In total I went through three pallets of cinder blocks. Each pallet weighs ~2600lb. My F150 is rated to 3300 in the bed and my trailer is rated to trailer weight + 8k. I didn't bother hooking up the trailer, I wasn't in a hurry, and was able to do it in three trips. Even with a trailer the outback would be unable to move a pallet of cinder blocks, it would take the outback 6+ trips to move the same amount with a trailer. The outback is rated at 1245 total capacity. This is 1245-gas-driver-helper=amount of cinder blocks. In a similar way I help my mom and a family friend get hay for the horses a couple of times a year. Yeah its possible with my moms minivan, and they have done it that way, but its much nicer to spend the fuel making two trips every six months than two+ trips every month.
My personal ideal vehicle situation would be a household with an F150 and a Camry or Outback. I have the truck for getting hard work done and I have the other for when I don't want to expend extra gas. But for me the truck is not replaceable. Turn radius has never effected me in a way that was a problem and neither has parking. I have always parked in the back of parking lots and u-turns are illegal in my state. As long as you aren't using non-stock sided tires and driving within the speed limit roll-overs aren't a real thing, they were only a real thing with the ford exploder because the tires deployed with it in the 90s were bad. I can see why these reasons would make people not prefer trucks though, and thats fine with me.
I won't defend crossovers or SUVs because they have the same gas mileage as trucks and the same ability as the outlook but lack the crash safety ratings of either.
Ceterum censeo Sinae esse delendam
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 19 2018, @10:20PM (2 children)
Is there a significant difference in insurance cost between trucks and hatchbacks?
(Score: 1) by Sulla on Thursday December 20 2018, @12:46AM (1 child)
Maybe someone else can chime in on their costs for a smaller vehicle. But for comprehensive insurance with a zero deductible I am paying 45/mo on a 2016 truck. Our '12 caravan is 50/mo for a 500 deductible. I presume this is because my truck has five stars and my wife's caravan is a deathtrap.
Ceterum censeo Sinae esse delendam
(Score: 2) by istartedi on Friday December 21 2018, @12:42AM
Some variables are missing: Your state, your age, miles/year (in California and maybe other states they ask you this and presumably it could be fraud if you're caught lying), your driving record, and coverage other than deductible such as CSL (Combined Single Limit) and other aspects of the quality of the insurance. I might still be forgetting some things, but the bottom line is that you have to hold all those other variables constant before you can compare vehicles.
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(Score: 1) by istartedi on Wednesday December 19 2018, @11:35PM
OK, it's a Civic and technically not a hatchback but with the fold-down seats it's able to handle long stuff, just not wide stuff. I tend to think of it as a hatchback. It's a coupe. Real highway mileage 34 mpg. My old car was an '85 Mustang which was a true hatchback and I could put a twin mattress and box spring in there and only have a little bit hanging out. That car only got 20 mpg though.
My need to move anything heavy or tow is "blue moon", so I think the economics still favor the car... that and "it's paid for". If I thought I could maintain a truck for just a few $100/yr. more I might consider it as my only vehicle also. My car's not set up to be particularly sporty, although I do currently have somewhat "performance" struts and tires. I always feel like I'm working when I drive a truck. I enjoy being at parity in the ongoing height war, but I hate the road feel.
My ideal setup would be to have a truck as a 2nd vehicle that sat in the driveway most of the time, but was ready to startup and go when I needed it... but I can't justify the purchase, and probably can't even justify the maintenance costs for what I do.
I have a hard time defending crossover and SUV too. I rented a cross-over one time and hated it so much--it handled like a truck, but I wasn't winning the height war at all. So glad to ditch that rental after a week. I know somebody who uses one to move clean boxes though, so it's good for that; but I'd rather have a truck that I can throw a bag of dirt into.
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