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UK Cops Have Decided Impolite Online Speech Is Worth A Visit From An Officer
In this case, it was Irish comedy writer Graham Linehan being visited by the Norwich Police Department on a Sunday morning. He was apparently reported by outspoken trans rights activist Adrian Harrop. Linehan had posted tweets criticizing Harrop's televised debate with a woman who had paid for a billboard depicting the dictionary's definition of the word "woman," which bothered Harrop so much he complained and got that taken down as well.
Harrop was the reason Linehan was talking to police officers about tweets that didn't even violate the Twitter Rules. He had merely suggested Harrop's steamrolling of the billboard buyer during a televised debate might have been "male privilege." Another tweet alleged Harrop had threatened women and doxxed them for not being friendly enough to his cause. This is the tweet Harrop admits bothered him so much he needed to call the police. This is the disturbing, but ultimately useless, outcome of Harrop's decision.
[...] You can't recognize free speech while still insisting everyone has to be nice to everyone else while online. You can hope that's what will happen, but you can't demand this of the general population. Unless you're in the UK, in which case you can, because you don't really recognize free speech and should probably remove that phrase from the government's collective vocabulary.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by ledow on Friday December 28 2018, @07:19PM (16 children)
Stop spreading bullshit.
A police officer's job in the UK, more than anything else, involves calming non-criminal situations and keeping the peace.
A bobby who can't knock on your door and ask you to keep the noise down, be more civil to your neighbour, or consider the consequences of a tweet isn't capable of doing their job. It literally does not matter that they aren't crimes, because they aren't arresting, charging or imprisoning anyone.
No different to your complaint that the neighbours are having a loud party - the police can't arrest people for having a party. But they can knock on the door civilly, ask them to keep it down, and bite their tongue if they do get a load of abuse about doing so, even though they can't arrest anyone for a suspected crime.
And quotes like:
"The UK government might think complaints like these will be handled civilly by public servants with the power to deploy deadly force, but that's a big assumption when the underlying "crime" is incivility."
Are entirely misleading. Extremely few police officers have the power to deploy deadly force. And the reason they are few, and rarely utilitised, is that our police are CIVIL. Sure, jump on with your story about a policeman pulling you over and arresting you after you gave him a mouthful of abuse and hassle for him telling you that your back light is out (I've been stopped by police loads - they are ALWAYS civil, and very forgiving and could have easily nicked me for things that they just gave me a little "get it fixed when it's convenient" hints for).
The UK police received a complaint of hate speech. They knocked on the guy's door, knowing they couldn't do anything "legal" about it. They just wanted to assess and moderate the situation before it grew out of proportion. They had a word. The guy didn't want to listen, they walked away, AND LITERALLY NOTHING HAPPENED. That's what police do in situations that don't involve actual crimes. That's what you WANT them to do. Because 9 times out of 10 they don't get a dickhead, they get a normal person who then goes "Oh, right, sorry, no, I didn't intend to cause offence, thanks officer" and the situation dies - the "victim" thinks that their concerns are acted on, the "perpetrator" moderates their behaviour, and nobody is arrested or causes paperwork.
Anti-police sentiment may be rife in the US and with some people in the UK. Now consider what you WANT the police's response to be? Because if they'd just ignored it and then the guy had committed actual hate speech, they'd be in the press. If the "victim" had been attacked, they'd be in the press. If they'd done NOTHING about the concerns, they'd be in the press. If they'd stormed in and arrested him or investigated him (not even charged him!), they'd be in the press. So instead, the local bobby (not even some long investigation CID shit, but the guy who sighed and happened to be nearest) knocked on the door to ask what's happened, got an earful and STILL they got into the press.
Stop that shit.
(Score: -1, Redundant) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 28 2018, @08:15PM
What? Get your shit together, you wanker. The police have better things to do than deal with the likes of you. They've got drone terrorists to track down and Brexit riots to plan for.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 28 2018, @08:25PM (4 children)
This is simple intimidation via police.
Lets see... for a noise complaint you can go to your neighbor just like the cops. "please keep it down". Then its either fuck off or sure n/p.
When you call the police they show up and see if there is any noise, or just assume the person turned it down when they saw them.
It's no longer "please keep it down", its complaints have come about the noise you're making TURN IT DOWN.
And sure you can tell them to fuck off but they can give you a ticket. And then "hey, is that weed I smell".
So now in your scenario, someone makes a joke that offends their enemy. Instead of coming back with something witty, they called the cops.
And they come to your door while your showering, eating dinner, in your underwear, etc. "What did you say online, you're offending people, you may have committed a "hate speech"
"You know what the penalties for that are? Better not make us come back here again, watch what you say lad because we're listening"
Maybe the police won't shoot or beat or fine you for either of these things, it would be ridiculous but that threat is behind EVERY interaction you have with them. When you don't comply the so called civility gets less and less.
You've got a light out its pretty clear cut, jokes online are not. One you fix and move on, the other is subject to everyone's whims.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 28 2018, @11:24PM (2 children)
They're not dense, you are.
You were created by a screwed up society, and think that everyone should be as screwed up as you are.
Better societies keep an eye on troubled people, and help those in need.
(Score: 3, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 29 2018, @12:19AM
Bootlicker.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Monday December 31 2018, @07:35AM
If there are all these normal people who aren't screwed up, then how did society end up that way? Mental failwaves from a few throwbacks? What's going on here is that some screw ups get to use the power of the state to harass some other screw ups. It's not going to make screwed up societies any better.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 29 2018, @02:08AM
Or it's the neighbor deciding you'd be better off with a few broken bones for daring to interrupt their concert. Maybe a bullet to the head.
I'll call the cops, thanks all the same, because the cops can legally do things to people that I can't.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by fustakrakich on Friday December 28 2018, @08:49PM
I had no idea that a text forum can achieve such high decibel levels... Sorry, you're wagging the dog. The negative consequences come from the failure to control one's reaction to a damn tweet. Offense is taken, not given.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 5, Insightful) by shortscreen on Friday December 28 2018, @09:38PM
Your version of police as reasonable, dependable folks, who calm a situation instead of escalating it, sound much nicer than what many people have come to expect in the US.
On the other hand, the idea that you would have them turn up at your front door to confront you about a tweet (with or without an allegation of "hate speech" whatever that is) pretty well sours the whole story.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by edIII on Friday December 28 2018, @10:58PM (1 child)
I have to laugh at you hysterically for your blindness to police intimidation, and yet at the same time, I'm envious if that's your real relationship with the cops. Here in the USA, it's quite a bit different of a relationship. The police regularly abuse us, unconstitutionally confiscate our property, moonlight for the rich as anti-union enforcers, kill anyone one of us that they perceive as a threat to their lives (usually black people), torture people before death (Kelly Thomas), and have become increasingly militant with a strong reliance on military hardware. On top of that, they abuse the purpose of unions to create their Blue Shield to remove all accountability and effective civil oversight.
You've described Mayberry, a fictional US town in the 50s where everybody knew everybody and it wasn't a cop knocking on your door, or pulling you over. It was Frank, Steve, Bill, etc. and you didn't need to fear them at all. Like you alluded to, they would show up anyways if they knew of a dispute between two people, to help bring peace and civility back. Imagine Don Knotts in his kindly way moderating a dispute, and that's the picture you've painted for me.
I'm not sure the police actually exist as you say they do, but I would like to think we could live in a world where the police and your relationship to them, are as you said. I do see your point though, and if the officer just came and talked because it was reported, that might not be so bad. Except our valid cynicism of the cops makes us see that as intimidation and an attempt to stifle free speech. Although, I've not heard anything about the conduct of either party during the visit, just the fact it happened, and we are all to extrapolate from that with our own biases.
Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
(Score: 2) by fritsd on Saturday December 29 2018, @01:41PM
Ed III, I once bought the DVD of the film "Borat". It greatly enhanced my knowledge of "Cultural Learnings of America", a country I've never visited (and am not planning to).
There was a little menu on the DVD with "cut out" film scenes. One of them left me sitting with my mouth open in surprise (no, not the beach sex scene).
It was when Borat and his producer Azamat are stopped by the police.
I thought: "in that scene, Sacha Baron Cohen shows the difference between police under civil control, and police that is just the biggest meanest best armed gang of them all".
Civilization!
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 29 2018, @12:13AM
Oh sure, nothing happened this visit...a formal police visit, made after a drama queen makes a formal complaint, he received an official Police Warning...which will now appear on his police record, and once back at base the visiting officers will then fill in the requisite paperwork c/w transcripts of whatever Mr Linehan might have said to them as further evidence and pass it up the chain, as this happened in England, this chain will eventually end at some wonk at the CPS who then looks at it and decides if they then think they can proceed with a prosecution under one of the multifarious 'catch-all' laws they've passed to hammer people with.
In this case, if they go for it, I'd bet our old friend 'The Malicious Communications Act 1988' could be called into play...that vague '..cause distress or anxiety to the recipient or to any other person to whom he intends that it or its contents or nature should be communicated.', the vagueness being how legally quantifiable the perceived distress or anxiety actually caused..or they could opt for using 1.4A.(1) of 'The Public Order Act 1986'...same sort of vague BS that requires legal testing of the material and it's allegedly offending properties.
If the man from CPS, he say yes! then one fine day Mr Linehan will either be visited again by a couple of not-so-nice plods and taken for a wee ride in one of their cars...or will be requested to attend his nearest nick with his solicitor in tow where he'll be formally charged..
Even if the man from CPS he say no!, this is another mark on Mr Linehan's card...and will be used against him when they need it.
So, Nothing happened eh? and you've the audacity to accuse others of spreading bullshit..
(Score: 2) by hemocyanin on Saturday December 29 2018, @02:37AM
Wait -- what? You support this? Sending the police out to talk with impolite twitter users? I didn't read your entire post so correct me if I'm wrong and you think it is flat out ridiculous to send out the cops over a twitter post -- don't they have some acid attacks or drunken brawls to deal with? Is it really worth the chilling effect on the free discourse of ideas to have the cops come by and say "hey, we see you are a little bit impolite on twitter." Holy fucking cow. The UK should just slip under the waves.
(Score: 0, Insightful) by fakefuck39 on Saturday December 29 2018, @04:36AM (1 child)
the police are paid by the public to enforce the law. no law was broken. what is it you're not getting here sherlock? you can write pages and pages of nonsense to muddy the water, but the facts are very clear:
a guy wrote shit online that someone didn't like. that someone called the cops. instead of the cops telling this shithead no law was broken, they showed up at a guy's house to "investigate." there's nothing to investigate, as no law was broken. this is literally the police not doing their job, and annoying the shit out of the population paying them to do their job. what is it that you do not understand?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 29 2018, @05:19PM
I think the main problem is that in the UK, there apparently is a criminal law against offending people online and apparently, even innocuous tweets can get you in real trouble. Stalin is winning.
(Score: 2) by Pax on Saturday December 29 2018, @10:24AM
"the police can't arrest people for having a party."
oh really? so tell me of this Criminal Justice act which was for the stopping of the very parties you mention????
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_Justice_and_Public_Order_Act_1994 [wikipedia.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 29 2018, @06:22PM
there's no such thing as hate speech you stupid fucking slave. and no i don't want goddamn pigs knocking on MY goddamn door because some delusional freak got offended. don't come fucking with me unless you have a complaint of an actual crime. fuck your police state.