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posted by martyb on Monday December 31 2018, @05:27PM   Printer-friendly
from the what-a-wicked-web-we-weave dept.

"Defense Secretary Jim Mattis’ resignation, which shocked Washington’s national security establishment and rattled America’s allies, was sealed in a fateful 18-hour period that saw President Trump resolve to withdraw troops from Syria – alarming Pentagon officials who see America’s role in the region as crucial." foxnews.com/politics/behind-the-scenes-of-the-mattis-bombshell-more-resignations-expected-after-protest-exit


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  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by fyngyrz on Monday December 31 2018, @06:36PM (9 children)

    by fyngyrz (6567) on Monday December 31 2018, @06:36PM (#780340) Journal

    To me, this is one of those "a stopped clock is right twice a day" things.

    I'd like to see all US troops, ships, and aircraft along with all the gear it is even remotely practical to move brought back to the US. No jobs lost, just plop them down on US soil / borders / waters and let the money it takes to support them feed right back into the US economy instead of into foreign ones.

    You want to have a sovereign nation, that's great. Good luck. If you want us to be your military muscle, here's the bill, all payments due in advance, thanks. Because, you know, there tends to be not a lot left standing after we... "help."

    I still think Trump is 100% idiot, through and through; but here, for whatever reason has managed to make itself felt in his broken and confused mind, he's gone and done a small part of the very best thing he could ever do with our military.

    --
    All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.

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  • (Score: 5, Informative) by Thexalon on Monday December 31 2018, @06:52PM (8 children)

    by Thexalon (636) on Monday December 31 2018, @06:52PM (#780351)

    You want to have a sovereign nation, that's great. Good luck. If you want us to be your military muscle, here's the bill, all payments due in advance, thanks. Because, you know, there tends to be not a lot left standing after we... "help."

    I agree with a lot of that sentiment, but I definitely question the idea that our allies would not be standing without our "help". For instance, the EU has the hardware and personnel to protect themselves from just about anyone trying to go after them, especially if the UK is helping them out, and they built most of that hardware themselves. The most powerful military in the Middle East, by a wide margin, is the Israeli Defense Force. Japan and South Korea aren't slouches when it comes to military preparedness. Neither is India. This idea that the US is the "protector of the free world" has been complete BS for a very long time.

    --
    The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
    • (Score: 2) by fyngyrz on Monday December 31 2018, @08:08PM (1 child)

      by fyngyrz (6567) on Monday December 31 2018, @08:08PM (#780373) Journal

      I definitely question the idea that our allies would not be standing without our "help".

      Glad I didn't make any such claim, then. 😊

      --
      Knock softly, but firmly. I like soft, firm knockers.

      • (Score: 2) by Gaaark on Monday December 31 2018, @11:24PM

        by Gaaark (41) on Monday December 31 2018, @11:24PM (#780431) Journal

        "Knock softly, but firmly. I like soft, firm knockers."

        I like my knockers Al denté too!
        :)

        --
        --- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 31 2018, @10:04PM (2 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 31 2018, @10:04PM (#780398)

      I definitely question the idea that our allies would not be standing without our "help". For instance, the EU has the hardware and personnel to protect themselves from just about anyone trying to go after them

      You're nuts! They would be going after each other the moment the US steps out. It would be good old time feudal battles all over again with those people. Look at the crazy kooks they elect now. Europe is more tribal than Africa. Their 'civility' is a very thin veneer, painted on by an irresistible force.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 31 2018, @10:20PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 31 2018, @10:20PM (#780405)

        > They [EU] would be going after each other the moment the US steps out.
        Yep, the tribes of Europe live on, and on, and on...

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 01 2019, @03:33AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 01 2019, @03:33AM (#780519)

          Not anymore. They have been invaded. Slowly they will be bred out.

    • (Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Tuesday January 01 2019, @01:22AM (1 child)

      by Phoenix666 (552) on Tuesday January 01 2019, @01:22AM (#780470) Journal

      That's theoretically true, but in practice it's not that simple. The EU has a lot of people, and all the economic and technical power needed to build a peerless military. But the nation most likely to lead them is Germany, and nobody likes the Germans. Also, the Europeans have never projected military might as a continent, by consensus. It's not in their experience. They can't even, as the EU, agree how to handle a handful of refugees from Syria (really, the EU could absorb every Syrian in the world and not even notice, so it's not a question of culture, numbers, or cost).

      Japan spends a lot on its military, but its national will to project its military might has not returned since the humiliation of the Second World War. South Korea doesn't know where it's going at the moment, except that China's looking big and scary and that they still really hate the Japanese; oh well, let's listen to some more K-Pop.

      India is a large country and has nuclear weapons, but it feels itself hemmed in by Pakistan and its new buddy China. That's its geopolitical preoccupation. They are not interested in protecting the free world at all. They couldn't even be bothered to take out the hapless Somali pirates by projecting its naval power over the Indian Ocean, which would have been a natural entree if they had any interest in hegemony.

      In short, it's anyone's game. The US is tired of footing the bill for all its "allies." China is puffing itself up to be big and scary when the reality is they have feet of clay. Putin's playing a weak, weak hand. Everyone else is looking around, worried about their own restive populations, and wondering what's gonna happen next.

      These are the times that historic locations are made of.

      --
      Washington DC delenda est.
      • (Score: 0, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 01 2019, @03:03AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 01 2019, @03:03AM (#780505)

        Don't sell Putin so short. I don't think his hand is anywhere near as weak as he wants people to believe. He's probably quite happy that the eyes are on China rather than Russia - it gives him more maneuverability.

        As for China's feet of clay? That's irrelevant, when that mudslide reaches you you're gone baby.

    • (Score: 3, Informative) by deimtee on Tuesday January 01 2019, @01:41AM

      by deimtee (3272) on Tuesday January 01 2019, @01:41AM (#780481) Journal

      The most powerful military in the Middle East, by a wide margin, is the Israeli Defense Force.

      Do you have any idea how much of that is due to USA money and arms?
      Even just read the first sentence: https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-looks-at-massive-military-aircraft-purchase-from-us-firm-boeing/ [timesofisrael.com]
      Israel wanting more just because USA aids SA: https://www.timesofisrael.com/pm-says-us-agreed-to-boost-israel-military-aid-amid-concern-over-saudi-deal/ [timesofisrael.com]
      Deal didn't go ahead at the time but, 20 free F35's was realistic?: https://www.timesofisrael.com/barak-claims-tense-netanyahu-obama-relations-scuttled-gift-of-free-f-35s/ [timesofisrael.com]

      And from a non-israeli source, some sobering reading while contemplating your national debt: https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/interactive/2018/03/understanding-military-aid-israel-180305092533077.html [aljazeera.com]

      --
      If you cough while drinking cheap red wine it really cleans out your sinuses.