SoylentNews is people
SoylentNews
The old gray lady reports that the people of Tempe AZ, a popular testing location for self driving cars, are fighting back. Here are a couple of snippets from the longer article:
The [tire] slashing was one of nearly two dozen attacks on driverless vehicles over the past two years in Chandler, a city near Phoenix where Waymo started testing its vans in 2017. In ways large and small, the city has had an early look at public misgivings over the rise of artificial intelligence, with city officials hearing complaints about everything from safety to possible job losses.
Some people have pelted Waymo vans with rocks, according to police reports. Others have repeatedly tried to run the vehicles off the road. One woman screamed at one of the vans, telling it to get out of her suburban neighborhood. A man pulled up alongside a Waymo vehicle and threatened the employee riding inside with a piece of PVC pipe.
[...] "There are other places they can test," said Erik O'Polka, 37, who was issued a warning by the police in November after multiple reports that his Jeep Wrangler had tried to run Waymo vans off the road — in one case, driving head-on toward one of the self-driving vehicles until it was forced to come to an abrupt stop.
His wife, Elizabeth, 35, admitted in an interview that her husband "finds it entertaining to brake hard" in front of the self-driving vans, and that she herself "may have forced them to pull over" so she could yell at them to get out of their neighborhood. The trouble started, the couple said, when their 10-year-old son was nearly hit by one of the vehicles while he was playing in a nearby cul-de-sac.
"They said they need real-world examples, but I don't want to be their real-world mistake," said Mr. O'Polka, who runs his own company providing information technology to small businesses. "They didn't ask us if we wanted to be part of their beta test," added his wife, who helps run the business.
It looks like The New York Times used this article from December 11 as part of their story:
A slashed tire, a pointed gun, bullies on the road: Why do Waymo self-driving vans get so much hate?
This seems to be happening everywhere Waymo is testing, not just Tempe.
Lots of comments about this article on other sites, SoylentNews should get in on the fun too! A quote from a "media analyst" suggests that driverless cars are like scabs, hired to break a union strike.
Also at The Hill.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday January 01 2019, @11:15PM (19 children)
Safety is irrelevant unless they can guarantee perfect safety. Accountability when it falls short of perfection like we have with human drivers is my primary concern.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Wednesday January 02 2019, @02:02AM (14 children)
Accountability when it falls short of perfection like we have with human drivers is my primary concern.
*cough* What? Are we talking about accountability or falling short of perfection?
Accountability should be simple, first is the owner (for maintenance issues), then the manufacturer. When we get to version 1.0, the operator should as liable as a passenger in an elevator.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday January 02 2019, @12:30PM (13 children)
You reckon then that devs will be lining up to code software whose bugs could get them charged with vehicular manslaughter? Unless that's a possibility you have removed human accountability entirely andthat is what people will not stand for.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Wednesday January 02 2019, @08:38PM (12 children)
It's up to the managers to make sure it's safe. Let's make 'em justify their salaries and bonuses. If a grunt fucks up, he gets the boot and a mark on his *Permanent Record* (watch out for that), unless you can prove malicious intent of course. How does it work in the military?
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday January 03 2019, @01:01AM (11 children)
Exactly, and that is utterly insufficient to anyone who's lost a loved one.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Thursday January 03 2019, @04:15AM (10 children)
So, arrest the entire team? How many degrees of separation are needed to ensure innocence? Are we going to let emotion drive the whole issue?
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday January 03 2019, @02:47PM (9 children)
When the emotion is overwhelming grief coupled with rage that you will receive nothing anywhere near justice? You bet your ass we are.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Thursday January 03 2019, @05:00PM (8 children)
There's a point when it's no longer justice, it becomes politics, and we have to push back. There comes a time when we have tell people to fuck off when they become a mob. Shit happens, sometimes even by accident. You have to prove negligence and maliciousness or get the hell out.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday January 03 2019, @09:04PM (7 children)
Luck with that. This country exists because of that attitude from government.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Thursday January 03 2019, @09:14PM (6 children)
Oh stop! We ARE the damn government!
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday January 03 2019, @10:50PM (5 children)
You think? That kind of makes me despair for your intelligence.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Thursday January 03 2019, @10:53PM (4 children)
You think?
I know! 95% of voters voted for exactly what he have. Can it be any more obvious?
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday January 03 2019, @11:13PM (3 children)
You're assuming the dog is wagging the tail. That's a foolish assumption in politics.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Thursday January 03 2019, @11:39PM (2 children)
Passivity is no excuse.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Friday January 04 2019, @01:12AM (1 child)
Who said anything about passivity? I think you misunderstood the reference.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Friday January 04 2019, @01:23AM
My point is, we run the show, no matter how it looks.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 02 2019, @06:57AM (3 children)
Most likely the car company will pay out settlements if it can be proven the AI was negligent.
If you're looking for someone to send to jail, there probably won't be one. But that's already true [theguardian.com], and it's also not necessary if you're out for someone to take irrational vengeance on. Those who have killed other people with their cars already take irrational vengeance on themselves.
Everyone reading this think about how you would feel if you killed another human being with your car. Even if you don't get sent to jail for it. Even if it wasn't legally your fault but, maybe, with a little extra vigilance, you could have prevented the death. I've read other articles about this topic. Suicidal depression and lifelong guilt are the automatic, inescapable punishments for accidentally killing someone with your car.
I looked into this topic when I hit a deer and it shook me up. I drive a lot more safely now; I make very few mistakes, and I usually notice my mistakes right after I make them. I don't make many mistakes: I'm a good driver. But I do make mistakes. It could happen. It probably won't, but if a pedestrian crosses against the light, or a cyclist hits a rock, and I'm not at the top of my game ... well probably I'd rather just end it in that case than live the rest of my life reliving that moment, trying to forgive myself for something I know I won't be able to.
Self-driving cars can't come soon enough.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 02 2019, @11:29AM
> Self-driving cars can't come soon enough.
Per your description, your driving is well above average in terms of attention (or lack of distraction). Assuming that you also avoid other common hazards like driving drunk/impaired, road rage, and driving when sleepy, you are perhaps an order of magnitude "safer" than an average driver.
I claim that you shouldn't use self driving cars until their fleet average is as good as your demographic. That criteria is going to take massive amounts of testing time to establish, much more than Waymo (who I believe is the industry leader) has done to date. Think about it, Waymo has hundreds or perhaps a few thousand cars, the USA has ~250 million cars.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday January 02 2019, @12:33PM
Money ain't a fair exchange for a life. That you're willing to allow it to shed your own accountability is fairly well sickening.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by bzipitidoo on Thursday January 03 2019, @03:17AM
I've had a near miss that way, so I know what you mean. Kid ran a red light as I was approaching the intersection. It was green my way, had been green long enough for half a dozen cars in front of me to go through. And there was another car waiting at the red, his way, and this inexperienced kid saw none of that. I could not see him until he was at the intersection, thanks to it being an underpass and his direction hidden from my view by an embankment. Nevertheless, I saw him as soon as he appeared, and I didn't like how fast he was approaching the intersection. Didn't look like he could stop in time. So I shifted one lane away, in case he came to a stop with his nose in the intersection. I never dreamed that he would instead punch it and leap out in front of me. Had I considered that possibility, maybe I could have swerved and avoided him. Maybe. Instead, I t-boned him. You know how time seems to slow down when you're in great danger? That's what it was like for me. I saw what to do, saw I might miss him if I swerved hard enough, saw that standing on the brake was not going to be enough, but I just couldn't seem to move fast enough. My arms and feet were in super slow motion. I didn't make it to the brake, and had only just started the swerve when we hit. Was still green my way when we came to a halt.
Very lucky for him that I was driving a small, light vehicle, or someone could have been maimed or killed. Also, very lucky I had slowed a little upon seeing him approach too fast. I was going 10 under the speed limit of 55 mph. He and his two passengers were only cut up a little. The unoccupied seat in their car was where my car hit. As for me and my passengers, one had a broken ankle, one was only bruised and cut, and I was bruised, the deep kind that take months to heal up. Though the accident was totally his fault, I still would have felt terrible if anyone had been permanently maimed or worse.
Had another idiot run a light in front of me a few years later. That time I was the lead vehicle. We were already in motion because we'd been waiting at another red light 2 blocks further back. Had I not taken action, I would have t-boned that car too. Instead, I swerved into the left turn lane and braked hard, completely avoiding the other driver. Also helped that we were all doing about 30 mph. And I'd thought about the previous experience, which helped greatly in taking decisive action instantly. Already had a plan, you know.