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posted by takyon on Wednesday January 09 2019, @06:44PM   Printer-friendly
from the if-you-don't-like-it-you-can-keep-it dept.

Samsung is facing a battle with end users concerning its agreements with software companies to set some preinstalled software on Samsung mobile phones to be undeletable. Users have found that applications like Facebook can't be uninstalled, which has caused some distress given the recent data breaches and lack of respect Facebook has shown towards its users in the past decade. Some users have sworn off getting another Samsung phone if apps can't be uninstalled. The argument that users can just hack the phone to get root access, and then force remove the apps does not hold with non-technical users and anyone who can't risk bricking their device. Samsung has refused to comment on this, and specifically will not provide details about agreements it has with software vendors to force their applications to always be installed on Samsung phones. By comparison, the iPhone does not ever come with pre-installed third party applications.


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  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 09 2019, @06:48PM (25 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 09 2019, @06:48PM (#784216)

    I’m surprised this is just now getting attention. I know it irritated me so much I switched from Samsung to Apple, years ago, and never looked back. I would only ever go back to Android if I was guaranteed an unlocked boot loader so I could remove all the bloat ware/spyware.

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  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 09 2019, @07:37PM (5 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 09 2019, @07:37PM (#784248)

    Your iPhone has even worse software that can't be uninstalled. It's called iOS.

    • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 09 2019, @08:06PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 09 2019, @08:06PM (#784257)

      But it's not 3rd-party software.

      • (Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 09 2019, @08:14PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 09 2019, @08:14PM (#784263)

        And it has ‘courage’ 😂

    • (Score: 4, Insightful) by ilsa on Wednesday January 09 2019, @10:26PM (2 children)

      by ilsa (6082) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday January 09 2019, @10:26PM (#784303)

      How this god modded insightful, I have no idea. Just cause you don't like something, doesn't make it inferior. It just doesn't do the job that YOU want it to do.

      I'm not even going to go into the reasons because this has been argued to death an almost infinite number of times already. I guess I should be thankful that you didn't use the word "sheeple".

      It would just be nice to just ONCE have an OS discussion with it immediate devolving into petty knee-jerk reactions that are treated as valuable contributions to the discussion.

      • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 10 2019, @12:50AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 10 2019, @12:50AM (#784372)

        Part of the problem with having a discussion of Operating Systems is that Apple ties their system to their hardware, so you cannot have a discussion purely about the OS. Apple has such specific hardware choices, many of which cause a plethora of metoo copycatism that ruin other systems in some people's eyes, that kneejerk reactions are almost guaranteed. People blame Apple and their marketing for the loss of mobile keyboards, removable batteries, headphone jacks, almost all ports, optical media drives, the rise of chiclet keyboards and glossy screens, and so on. They also remember how god-awful the first iPhone was, having no external programs ("web apps" only), no copy-paste, etc. So when someone suggest the fix to a stupid and somewhat minor problem on their system is to throw out everything that they prefer in the first place, they don't take kindly to it. A similar thing happens when GNU/Linux users (as apposed to Android) suggest Windows users switch to fix their problems with Windows.

        Personally, I am considering going back to a BlackBerry 10 system, or picking up a Nokia E7 now that I am aware of continued custom firmware development: http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/news/item/23324_Released_Delight_17_Symbian_OS.php [allaboutsymbian.com]

      • (Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 10 2019, @02:24AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 10 2019, @02:24AM (#784416)

        How this god modded insightful, I have no idea. Just cause you don't like something, doesn't make it inferior. It just doesn't do the job that YOU want it to do.

        "Inferior" is a value judgement in a context. If it doesn't to the job I want it to, it is by definition inferior in that context. Anyone arguing about this is an idiot who treats their value judgements as objective facts.

  • (Score: 5, Interesting) by DannyB on Wednesday January 09 2019, @07:59PM (11 children)

    by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday January 09 2019, @07:59PM (#784252) Journal

    After my Samsung Galaxy S5, which was a great phone, I decided to try something different because of the pre-installed bloatware.

    Over the life of my S5, Samsung had decided to add even more non-removable crapware to the phone . . . after the purchase. Eventually I could not even do OS updates and have the things I wanted to have. And when I bought the phone, having 32 GB of storage was considered fairly generous.

    After the S5 I bought a Google Nexus 6P. It came with very little pre-installed software. I just replaced that Nexus 6P with a Pixel 3 XL. Once you've had an unlocked phone with just the basic apps you'll never go back. I can always go to the play store and add apps that I want.

    I was also so pleased with how nice Google made the experience of moving from the old phone to the new phone that I mention it here.

    --
    People today are educated enough to repeat what they are taught but not to question what they are taught.
    • (Score: 2) by mobydisk on Wednesday January 09 2019, @09:47PM (4 children)

      by mobydisk (5472) on Wednesday January 09 2019, @09:47PM (#784292)

      I currently have the same problem with the S5. Even if I remove all the apps I have put on, I barely have enough space for OS updates. Every now and then I look at the pre-installed apps and go "I don't remember that being there!" But I always figured it was me. I didn't realize they were actually adding them on. If they think doing this will make me buy a new Samsung phone, they are mistaken.

      • (Score: 3, Interesting) by DannyB on Wednesday January 09 2019, @10:59PM

        by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday January 09 2019, @10:59PM (#784322) Journal

        You are not mis-rembering.

        They were mistaken in my case. On my 2nd Google phone now, not likely to ever go back.

        --
        People today are educated enough to repeat what they are taught but not to question what they are taught.
      • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Wednesday January 09 2019, @11:00PM (2 children)

        by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday January 09 2019, @11:00PM (#784323) Journal

        One more thing . . .

        On a Google phone, you are first in line for updates. And security updates are monthly, sometimes more. OS updates are prompt.

        That was something else I didn't get from Samsung.

        --
        People today are educated enough to repeat what they are taught but not to question what they are taught.
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 09 2019, @11:46PM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 09 2019, @11:46PM (#784344)

          Wow, more random updates that turn on random menu items I had disabled and move them around. Just what I always wanted.

          • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Thursday January 10 2019, @02:22PM

            by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Thursday January 10 2019, @02:22PM (#784494) Journal

            The monthly updates don't seem to be disruptive. The major OS updates always have some changes, but are infrequent.

            --
            People today are educated enough to repeat what they are taught but not to question what they are taught.
    • (Score: 3, Interesting) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday January 10 2019, @03:51AM (5 children)

      by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Thursday January 10 2019, @03:51AM (#784451) Homepage Journal

      I still have a Samsung Galaxy S4 running rooted LineageOS with nothing but what I want on it. Not even any Google crap. When the wheels fall off or 4G networks get taken offline I'll start looking for another. Until then, I haven't seen a single compelling reason to buy a new phone.

      --
      My rights don't end where your fear begins.
      • (Score: 3, Interesting) by lars on Friday January 11 2019, @12:51AM

        by lars (4376) on Friday January 11 2019, @12:51AM (#784758)

        Same here, works just fine, has nice, new android, removable battery, microsd. I just bought a spare one for $50 CAD ($30 USD). Only wish would be waterproof, better camera.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 11 2019, @12:58AM (3 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 11 2019, @12:58AM (#784765)

        We have Samsungs and the bloatware IS out of control. Should we consider Huawei? :)
        I have to investigate how hard it might be to root a Samsung and install LineageOS. Would it work with my provider though?

        • (Score: 3, Interesting) by The Mighty Buzzard on Friday January 11 2019, @03:15AM

          by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Friday January 11 2019, @03:15AM (#784852) Homepage Journal

          It's not hard at all if you're methodical. Measure twice, cut once and you are highly unlikely to render it unbootable. Even if you do, it's generally not terribly difficult to fix without even cracking the case open or special tools.

          --
          My rights don't end where your fear begins.
        • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Friday January 11 2019, @03:16AM

          by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Friday January 11 2019, @03:16AM (#784853) Homepage Journal

          Sorry, missed the provider bit. It should. I haven't heard of providers giving a damn what phone you use as long as you pay the bill on time. I don't read every forum post on the Internet though, so best to check into it yourself as well.

          --
          My rights don't end where your fear begins.
        • (Score: 2) by lars on Friday January 18 2019, @10:55PM

          by lars (4376) on Friday January 18 2019, @10:55PM (#788460)

          Here are the instructions I wrote out for myself:

          Instructions for koodoo s4 i337 white:

          TWRP first:
          You can install a new one over the old one, no problem, probably best to
          samsung usb drivers
          reboot computer
          d/l odin just get latest
          d/l twrp for jfltexx even though phone is a jfltecan google "jfltexx twrp" and get latest .tar (.img is for adb, not odin)
          boot phone with volume down and power to get into a built in recovery that all phones have
          connect usb, press volume up, odin will connect in odin click "AP" button and load the .tar
          clock options tab in odin, make sure only "auto reboot" and "F. reset time" are checked, click start to flash, should take ~10 seconds and show "success"
          TWRP installed, to check, power on with volume up, keep it held down after the phone vibrates, might need a second try

          Download a rom, gapps,Magisk v16, Magisk v16.3 (not sure here, guess get whatever is latest magisk, do some reading)
          Google jfltexx and the rom name to find a nice rom and matching gapps, goomanager seems to be a rom downloader/finder, might work
          add the zips to sd card

          Backup with twrp:
          Backup "system" and "data" under "backup" or "advanced backup" depending on twrp version.
          https://highonandroid.com/android-howtos/how-to-backuprestore-rom-using-twrp-recovery/ [highonandroid.com]

          Wipe:
          Select Wipe and then Advanced Wipe.
          Select Cache, System and Data partitions to be wiped and then Swipe to Wipe.

          Install:
          in this order, using built in "add zip": rom, gapps,Magisk v16, Magisk v16.3
          reboot, this took a long while, at least 15 min, maybe 30

          if it fucks up, install the backup, but that will take a long while too because it has to rebuild the cache

          You gotta install the samsung usb drivers and reboot first. Probably get the latest magisk too. Just get a spare phone to play with first. there are lots of dire warnings, but it's really just like reformatting a or doing a bios flash on a PC.

  • (Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 09 2019, @09:14PM (3 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 09 2019, @09:14PM (#784274)

    I'm thinking of switching to Android, because Apple no longer offers a phone with a headphone jack, and apparently will soon enough no longer offer one with a fingerprint reader either. No, I don't want my phone knowing my face, thank you. But at least Apple doesn't spy on me (as far as has been proven, at least).

    With Android, I will be tracked and spied on. But at least I'll be able to put a SD card in so I won't have to worry if my music will fit, I can get one with a headphone jack and fingerprint reader.

    I don't really want either alternative. I just have to decide which bucket of suck I'll jump into next.

    • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Apparition on Wednesday January 09 2019, @10:09PM (2 children)

      by Apparition (6835) on Wednesday January 09 2019, @10:09PM (#784300) Journal

      High-end Android phones have removed the headphone jack as well, and mid-range Android phones have started to remove the headphone jack as well. I don't expect headphone jacks to be on Android phones at all in a couple of years.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 10 2019, @01:37AM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 10 2019, @01:37AM (#784400)

        I know that Android phones will probably lack headphones jacks in the future. At that point I will get a standalone mp3 player (yeah, they still make them) and a feature phone, and the apps can go to hell.

        At least feature phones in some form will probably still be around, since plenty of people need a "burner" phone.

        • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 10 2019, @02:22PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 10 2019, @02:22PM (#784493)

          Don’t wait, start now. Check out the stuff from FiiO. Not a shill, just a satisfied customer of several years.

  • (Score: 3, Interesting) by ilsa on Wednesday January 09 2019, @10:28PM

    by ilsa (6082) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday January 09 2019, @10:28PM (#784305)

    I did the same thing with my S3. It got to the point where I felt I had no choice but to root the phone and install cyanogenmod because the default setup Samsung provided was THAT bad. That one change increased by battery life by almost a full day. I was shocked.

    It was then I decided this would be my last Android device until everybody involved with the android ecosystem decided to pull their heads out of their asses.

  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by RandomFactor on Wednesday January 09 2019, @10:50PM

    by RandomFactor (3682) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday January 09 2019, @10:50PM (#784317) Journal

    I would only ever go back to Android if I was guaranteed an unlocked boot loader so I could remove all the bloat ware/spyware.

    As royally pissed as I am at Google for other reasons, I still have my Nexus 6p as my daily driver, fully unlockable, flashable, rootable... My Moto X Dev edition before that was also the same.

    Getting an unlockable phone has long been an option (yes, there are less choices, and it typically will cost you a bit more - notice both the phones i mention were 'flagships' in their day). If more people simply said 'can't unlock, don't want, trying the next brand' loud enough this whole BS approach to screwing customers would rightly die out.

    --
    В «Правде» нет известий, в «Известиях» нет правды
  • (Score: 4, Interesting) by Spamalope on Thursday January 10 2019, @01:16AM

    by Spamalope (5233) on Thursday January 10 2019, @01:16AM (#784383) Homepage

    I had an iPhone. App updates and installation were tied to constant forced IOS updates and new more restrictive legal agreements. Each update required wiping the data from the phone, but iTunes includes backup software that verifies the backup.
    When I tried to restore the phone, iTunes reported a problem with the backup and refused to allow me access to my files.
    Then I found out the error was fake, and this was done intentionally to anyone who has music or video not purchased through Apple's store. They'd destroyed my notes and photos intentionally to coerce purchases with them. They're a hard no after that!