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posted by chromas on Wednesday January 16 2019, @04:20AM   Printer-friendly
from the rings-without-tokens dept.

Next-generation LHC: CERN lays out plans for €21-billion super-collider

CERN has unveiled its bold dream to build a new accelerator nearly four times as long as its 27-kilometer Large Hadron Collider—currently the world's largest—and up to six times more powerful.

The European particle physics laboratory, outside Geneva, Switzerland, outlined the plan in a technical report on 15 January.

The document offers several preliminary designs for a Future Circular Collider (FCC)—which would be the most powerful particle-smasher ever built—with different types of colliders ranging in cost from around €9 billion (US$10.2 billion) to €21 billion. It is the lab's opening bid in a priority-setting process over the next two years, called the European Strategy Update for Particle Physics, and it will affect the field's future well into the second half of the century.

[...] Not everyone is convinced the super collider is a good investment. "There is no reason to think that there should be new physics in the energy regime that such a collider would reach," says Sabine Hossenfelder, a theoretical physics at Frankfurt Institute for Advanced Studies in Germany. "That's the nightmare that everyone has on their mind but doesn't want to speak about."

Hossenfelder says that the large sums involved might be better spent on other types of huge facilities. For example, she says that placing a major radio telescope on the far side of the Moon, or a gravitational-wave detector in orbit, would be safer bets in terms of their return on science.

CERN press release and poster.

Also at The Verge.


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  • (Score: 3, Funny) by aristarchus on Wednesday January 16 2019, @06:07AM (16 children)

    by aristarchus (2645) on Wednesday January 16 2019, @06:07AM (#787258) Journal

    OK, you are probably going to think I am going nuts, and you are probably right, but what you are saying makes too much sense to me.

    You know, that sounds exactly like what I was thinking when I came up with the Heliocentric model of the solar system. Only, it turns out, I was right. I wish you equal success with your theorizing. Of course, you could just be crazy.

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  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 16 2019, @06:12AM (15 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 16 2019, @06:12AM (#787259)

    Science doesnt care if you are crazy? However you do need to get a testable prediction out of the theory... Preferably something quantitative and precise.

    P.S. the geocentric and heliocentric models of the solar system are equivalent. They are both correct, just using different reference frames. Humans generally prefer the aesthetics of the heliocentric model though and find it easier to work with.

    • (Score: 2) by aristarchus on Wednesday January 16 2019, @06:38AM (14 children)

      by aristarchus (2645) on Wednesday January 16 2019, @06:38AM (#787263) Journal

      Using different reference frames, one of which is just wrong, unless for religious reasons. And you have the hubris to question aristarchus? I gave the quantitative predictions, and given what I was working with, they were pretty spot on. So what perverse aesthetics do you prefer to work with, oh dark and non-enlightened AC? Please, go on.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 16 2019, @06:46AM (13 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 16 2019, @06:46AM (#787266)

        So you are are a relativity denier?

        • (Score: 2) by aristarchus on Wednesday January 16 2019, @07:45AM (12 children)

          by aristarchus (2645) on Wednesday January 16 2019, @07:45AM (#787279) Journal

          So you are are a relativity denier?

          You who are so wise in the ways of science should not pose such a stupid question. There are some who seek to maintain the geocentric model by citing Einstein, and claiming that the center of the universe is arbitrary, so we could justifiably just pick earth as the center. [discovermagazine.com] [Plus, this would verify scripture, which seems silly and stupid otherwise.] But, there are Einsteinian problems with this.

          For example, if the earth is the center of the universe, and discounting daily motion, which there really is no reason to do, we have to admit that galaxies, some which are at distances of 13 Billion light-years distant, orbit the earth once a year. I would leave the math to such a wise and opulent AC such as yourself, but what would you calculate the velocity of NGC 3034 [wikipedia.org]? And you are certainly aware that Einstein's constant, the C in the E=MC2, is the speed of light. So how is it that the Cigar Galaxy can cover. . . . Yes, Geo-centrism is absurd, silly. Quite close to the Electric Universe or Flat-earthers. So, no, I am not a relativity denier, and neither should you be.

          • (Score: 2) by melikamp on Wednesday January 16 2019, @07:56AM (3 children)

            by melikamp (1886) on Wednesday January 16 2019, @07:56AM (#787281) Journal

            Yes, Geo-centrism is absurd, silly. Quite close to the Electric Universe or Flat-earthers.

            Omg teh flat-earthers, with so many of them around, could it be that this theory is something more than stupidity? (I dare you, gentlereader, to find just one fucking piece of Earth that is actually geometrically flat, before you even begin to generalize.) It just seems like every developed country has a sizeable fraction of flat-earthers: USA, Australia, Japan... If a theory is espoused all around the globe, may be, just may be, it's worth some more investigation?

            • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Wednesday January 16 2019, @11:14AM (1 child)

              by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday January 16 2019, @11:14AM (#787330) Journal

              If a theory is espoused all around the globe, may be, just may be, it's worth some more investigation?

              Ok, let's look: "is... all around the globe". More investigation finished: the Earth is a globe and round.
              Next!

              --
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
              • (Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday January 17 2019, @02:58AM

                by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday January 17 2019, @02:58AM (#787735) Journal
                I knew the internet was good for something other than porn delivery.
            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 16 2019, @03:58PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 16 2019, @03:58PM (#787414)

              the (cut) plane thru the LHC ring is completely (geometrically) flat, or so said the laser obeying the "straight" definition of space-time with gravity, used to build that ring-tunnel thingy ...?

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 16 2019, @08:03AM (7 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 16 2019, @08:03AM (#787283)

            If two trains are traveling towards each other at near the speed of light isnt their relative velocity ~2c?

            The answer is no, and for the same reason your far away galaxies moving really fast relative to earth is not an issue.

            Also, the only one bringing up religion is you. You think Ptolemy cared about christianity? I can care less about it other than it seems to somewhat defend against a majority of people treating their political party or government like the ultimate authority on everything.

            • (Score: 2) by aristarchus on Wednesday January 16 2019, @08:40AM (6 children)

              by aristarchus (2645) on Wednesday January 16 2019, @08:40AM (#787294) Journal

              for the same reason your far away galaxies moving really fast relative to earth is not an issue.

              What is that reason? There is no 2x the speed of light? Therefore: . . . what?

              Also, the only one bringing up religion is you.

              Oh, come now! But not in my mouth. Religion is what all these wacko theories are about. Why, for instance, would it be important, or even relevant, to make an argument for the Earth being the center of the Universe, unless you perhaps believed that the purpose of the creation of the Universe was to create this one insignificant planet, and grow some sort of self-conscious slime [They're Made out of Meat" [youtube.com]] that could conceive of itself as the sole purpose of a vast and expanding universe.

              So again, it is the irrational forces that try to deny science, deny things like global warming and the insanity of Donald J. Trump. And history proves them wrong, as you will be proven wrong. Galaxies cannot exceed the speed of light, nor can the light from the galaxies exceed the speed of light. You need to reconsider your entire position, and perhaps update your life insurance. Or perhaps you are like the Orphelai? Or the Wedilai, only part meat? No brain, eh? Oh, there's a brain alright, but it's made of meat.

              "I advise that we erase the records"

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 16 2019, @08:54AM (5 children)

                by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 16 2019, @08:54AM (#787296)

                For some reason, I assumed you were familiar with the basic concepts behind modern physics: https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/if-two-trains-traveling-at-0-5c-collide-head-on.486045/ [physicsforums.com]

                • (Score: 2) by aristarchus on Wednesday January 16 2019, @09:11AM (4 children)

                  by aristarchus (2645) on Wednesday January 16 2019, @09:11AM (#787299) Journal

                  Not me, the geocentrists. And "two-trains" is more "trolley-car" science. Can you say something about dark matter, instead?

                  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 16 2019, @11:28AM (3 children)

                    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 16 2019, @11:28AM (#787337)

                    Can you say something about dark matter, instead?

                    He can't. His brain is all white matter.

                    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 16 2019, @03:42PM (2 children)

                      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 16 2019, @03:42PM (#787409)

                      Im not a "he".

                      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 16 2019, @04:16PM (1 child)

                        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 16 2019, @04:16PM (#787430)

                        OK.

                        "Their" brain is all white matter.

                        You make Jordan Peterson cry!

                        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 16 2019, @07:58PM

                          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 16 2019, @07:58PM (#787529)

                          I'm not a "their" either. Just stop.