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from the Fee-Fie-Fou-Fhum-Fideism-Falafel dept.
Commentary at Salon!
Should you believe in a God? Not according to most academic philosophers. A comprehensive survey revealed that only about 14 percent of English speaking professional philosophers are theists. As for what little religious belief remains among their colleagues, most professional philosophers regard it as a strange aberration among otherwise intelligent people. Among scientists the situation is much the same. Surveys of the members of the National Academy of Sciences, composed of the most prestigious scientists in the world, show that religious belief among them is practically nonexistent, about 7 percent.
[...] Now nothing definitely follows about the truth of a belief from what the majority of philosophers or scientists think. But such facts might cause believers discomfort. There has been a dramatic change in the last few centuries in the proportion of believers among the highly educated in the Western world. In the European Middle Ages belief in a God was ubiquitous, while today it is rare among the intelligentsia. This change occurred primarily because of the rise of modern science and a consensus among philosophers that arguments for the existence of gods, souls, afterlife and the like were unconvincing. Still, despite the view of professional philosophers and world-class scientists, religious beliefs have a universal appeal. What explains this?
[...] First, if you defend such beliefs by claiming that you have a right to your opinion, however unsupported by evidence it might be, you are referring to a political or legal right, not an epistemic one. You may have a legal right to say whatever you want, but you have epistemic justification only if there are good reasons and evidence to support your claim. If someone makes a claim without concern for reasons and evidence, we should conclude that they simply don't care about what's true. We shouldn't conclude that their beliefs are true because they are fervently held.
Another problem is that fideism—basing one's beliefs exclusively on faith—makes belief arbitrary, leaving no way to distinguish one religious belief from another. Fideism allows no reason to favor your preferred beliefs or superstitions over others. If I must accept your beliefs without evidence, then you must accept mine, no matter what absurdity I believe in. But is belief without reason and evidence worthy of rational beings? Doesn't it perpetuate the cycle of superstition and ignorance that has historically enslaved us? I agree with W.K. Clifford. "It is wrong always, everywhere and for everyone to believe anything upon insufficient evidence." Why? Because your beliefs affect other people, and your false beliefs may harm them.
I am checking to see what the Church of the Flying Spagetti Monster has to say about all this.
(Score: 0, Disagree) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 21 2019, @12:17AM (18 children)
Somewhere around the years 500 to 1700, give or take a few centuries, Christianity dominated Europe. People were serious about it, with the inquisition and all.
Imagine if that hadn't happened. Europe would be under sharia. You could marry a 7-year-old, stone a slut, or chuck an LGBT from a rooftop.
Christianity held back far worse. Without religion, it is hard to stand up to an incoming religion. Atheists don't pick up swords or strap on bomb vests. Atheists fail to protect themselves, and thus are doomed in the long run.
Take the cowpox. You really don't want smallpox.
(Score: 3, Informative) by aristarchus on Monday January 21 2019, @12:34AM (15 children)
We seriously need a "-1 Incoherent" mod. Christianity did not hold back the far worse, Christianity was the far worse. Religions die on their own, when not enough people clap their hands to keep Tinkerbelle alive, or keep the local priest provided with victims.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday January 21 2019, @01:27AM (6 children)
Name the religions you believe were better than Christianity, if you would then. I'll be particularly noting the ones you're forced to leave out.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by aristarchus on Monday January 21 2019, @01:41AM
Just think if the Mongols had managed to take all of Europe, except for Ireland, of course, to avoid the nasty "Irish Revenge" during the Mongexist. Lamaism, or northern Buddhism. Not quite your orthodox Buddhism, but still far superior to any monotheistic faith. For one thing, there is no god in Buddhism that is an object of worship! On the downside, the Lamaists tend to have an awful lot of sorcery. But that is exactly the thing that science and education eliminate.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Monday January 21 2019, @01:43AM (4 children)
Most forms of Buddhism. The more peaceful parts of Shinto, i.e., the ones not equating their Emperor with the Sun God and kamikaze'ing planes into the sea. The Egyptian pantheon. The Greek pantheon. Deism. Pastafarianism, insofar as that can be considered a religion. 19th century Spiritism. Some branches of Jainism and Hinduism. Whatever the hell the word for my religious belief is (Deism implies an active agent, which I don't subscribe to). Nearly any of the old animist religions without a tradition of human sacrifice.
Pretty much anything but Islam and the horrifying Mesoamerican cults, basically.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday January 21 2019, @02:11PM (3 children)
It's a close call on Buddhism, being as it's so fundamentally similar.
Those you felt the need to qualify with a determiner obviously do not pass muster on their own. If you're going to subdivide them you have to be willing to subdivide Christianity as well.
Pastafarianism and the like, if taken seriously, are mostly harmless but offer no benefit over disbelief and can be discounted.
The rest, you really, really need to read your history.
It's pretty obvious that you have an irrational stick up your ass about Christianity. Likely from either being forced into it at a young age coupled with ordinary teenage rebellion or from indoctrination in a higher education institution. You really should read the source materials before claiming to know anything about it. And before you even start with any old testament related arguments, that is not Christianity; Christianity is the teachings of Jesus with the old testament bits tacked on as history and context rather than as law.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Azuma Hazuki on Monday January 21 2019, @10:20PM (2 children)
There is so much wrong with this I don't even know where to start. Which of us, Uzzard, can read bits of the NT in Koine Greek? Not you. Which of us spent 13+ years studying church history, logic, apologetics and counter-apologetics in her free time? Not you. Which of us is so much of an idiot as to compare Christianity to Buddhism as if they are ANYTHING alike? Not me.
Good. Gravy. You are a walking Stage 4 Dunning-Krugeroma.
If you really want to talk subdividing Christianity, yes, there are some strains that are much less virulent than others. Episcopalians, the UCC, believe it or not the JWs and the Mormons (debatable as to whether these guys are Christians but yeah...), and the Quakers are mostly harmless. Catholics are the smallpox to Calvinists' ebola, and as I was raised Catholic I can say that.
You can take your "teenage rebellion" bullshit and shove it up your ass with that crooked foot-long beak of yours, buzzard breath.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 1, Troll) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday January 22 2019, @06:07PM (1 child)
You have a problem there. Two actually.
First, you were studying with a preconceived bias and saw only what you wanted to see.
Second, you're blaming Python for people who write remote exploits in it.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Tuesday January 22 2019, @06:55PM
God damn, are you stupid. No, it's more like blaming INTERCAL and the makers of INTERCAL for being, respectively, a shitty language and a bunch of trolls, and incidentally pointing out that programs written in shit languages are going to be shit themselves.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Monday January 21 2019, @10:55AM (7 children)
With that, I guess the Old Ari is gone, and the Senile Ari is back. Yes, whichever Ari you are, Christianity held off Islam. The turning point seems to have been the Battle of Tours. Had the Christians lost that battle, it is most likely that every Euro would have praised Allah under threat of death. There would have been no exploration of the New World. Science would have stagnated, and the Dark Ages would have gone on, and on, and on.
There is room enough, and tolerance enough, within Christianity to allow the Calvinists to go their own way, among other things.
More people are executed in Chop-Chop square each decade, than all of the inquisitors killed throughout the inquisition.
But, I think you knew all of that already.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 21 2019, @01:13PM (6 children)
Ah, so nothing would have changed. Gotcha
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Monday January 21 2019, @02:57PM (5 children)
Tally up all of those Euros who were put to death for having failed to praise Jehovah, please. As I stated elsewhere, more people die in Chop Chop Square each decade than died in all of the inquisitions. And, that is a somewhat modest estimate. Each and every weekend, today, Chop Chop is awash in blood - that is where it got it's name. Need a nice graphic video to convince you? You may not want to click if you have a weak stomach . . .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Vm2vtpHxYc [youtube.com]
There are more, some of them even more graphic - that is, more in focus, and zoomed in better.
(Score: 2) by aristarchus on Monday January 21 2019, @07:05PM (4 children)
Giordano Bruno? Jean D'Arc? Pope Formosus? All the victims of the Albegesian Crusade. All the Victims of le Massacre de la Saint-Barthélemy. There is even Wikipedia page! [wikipedia.org] I could go on.
Once again, same old coward Runaway, you are displaying your profound ignorance of history and religion, and of politics. You have one or two things fed to you by islamophobes, and you keep repeating them, as you were meant to do. But it just makes you look stupid and afraid. Stultus et Timere" Is not this the State Motto of Arkansas?
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Monday January 21 2019, @07:53PM (3 children)
That's an awfully short list, isn't it? Oh, I see - "list of people burned after being deemed heretics". The total that I asked for would be somewhat larger. All of the people put to death by inquisitors is at about ten times that long. However - every single year, a list that long is put to death on Chop Chop Square - and I mean today, in modern times. I don't mean a thousand years ago, I mean today.
Can you point to any people who are being put to death for heresy by Christian churches today? No? I didn't think so.
(Score: 3, Touché) by aristarchus on Monday January 21 2019, @10:37PM (2 children)
1600 is only about 400 years ago, Runaway. Again, some education might do you good. But perhaps it is too late.
Today? Heather Danielle Heyer. Worshippers at at Tree of Life – Or L'Simcha, People at a prayer service at Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church, Dr. David Gunn, Dr. John Britton and James Barrett, Shannon Lowney and Lee Ann Nichols, Robert Sanderson, Dr. George Tiller, victims at a Planned Parenthood clinic in Colorado Springs, Colorado, just a few within the past few decades. There are many, many more.
(Score: 0, Flamebait) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday January 22 2019, @04:56PM (1 child)
What does the year 1600 have to do with anything? Both Christianity and Islam are much older than that.
Heather? A commie, who died at the hands of a Nazi. You're going to blame that on Christianity? Get a grip, dude, that was POLITICAL. Religion may or may not have played some part in either of those peopel's life decisions, but they weren't at church rallies, now were they?
Emanuel African - another Nazi or neo-Nazi perp. Nazism and Christianity don't have some kind of intimate relationship with each other. Have you noticed that the Catholic Church embraces people of all races, ethnicities, and cultures, pretty much equally? Nazism is just the opposite.
Planned Parenthood? A genocidal organization, started out by a racist bitch who wanted to see the "weeds of humanity" pulled up, and thrown from her lily white garden? Phhht. But, of course, you're going to blame that on - Christianity? Got it.
Right minded people will stand against genocide, while left minded people will try to justify that genocide.
Oh yeah, see my new sig.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by aristarchus on Tuesday January 22 2019, @06:43PM
Shut up, Runaway, before you embarrass yourself further, and the nice priests of the Church of Reason come to prepare you for your auto da fé!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 21 2019, @12:43AM (1 child)
Marry a 7 year old, stone a slut, or chuck an LGBT from a rooftop... And what is the downside of sharia again?
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday January 21 2019, @01:29AM
She was a widow in her 20s. A muckety muck came along long after he was dead and decided they'd rather have a pedophile prophet than one who took sloppy seconds and retcon'd her as a child.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.