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The Department of Homeland Security announced a rule change Wednesday that will transform the lottery that decides who gets the 85,000 H-1B visas granted to for-profit companies every year.
Previously, an initial lottery granted 20,000 visas only to those holding advanced degrees granted by U.S. institutions — master’s degrees or doctorates — and then a general lottery granted 65,000 visas to all qualified applicants.
The Department of Homeland Security switched the order of these lotteries, it said in a notice of the final rule change, which will bolster the odds for highly educated foreign nationals. The change reduces the likelihood that people with just a bachelor’s degree will win in the general lottery, said Lisa Spiegel, an attorney at Duane Morris in San Francisco and head of the firm’s immigration group.
The program shift could hurt technology staffing companies, also known as outsourcers, who have a reputation for flooding the lottery with applications. Three Indian firms — Tata Consultancy Services, Infosys and Wipro — often account for a majority of the H-1B applications, an analysis of government data shows.
(Score: 5, Informative) by idiot_king on Friday February 01 2019, @02:27AM (28 children)
Why? Americans, that is to say people born here, are falling behind in just about every metric you can think of, from math to science to reading and so on. We need outside help as much as possible to make up for the complete failure of the education system stateside which has been completely steamrolled by neocons since the 1980s. We need immigrants, period. The reason Trump supporters can't admit it simply boils down to racism. By the way, if Americans are worth hiring at all, why aren't foreign countries screaming out for American workers like America is screaming out for non-American workers? Is it perhaps because Americans are stupid and lazy, and everybody knows it (and only Americans are afraid to admit it)? Hint: Yes.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 01 2019, @02:52AM (11 children)
Still living up to your name I see.
1/ Neocons didn't fuck up education, that was the leftist 'everyone must be equal' program that screwed up all the smart kids.*
2/ US companies aren't screaming out for foreign workers, they are screaming out for lower wages and as any capitalist knows, the most reliable way to lower prices is to flood the market.
3/ Racism has fuck all to do with it. Patriotism and nationalism maybe. Concern for your's and your neighbors' standard of living definitely.
4/ Foreign companies aren't screaming out for US workers because of one of:
(a) US workers are paid much more than locals (developing countries),
(b) the locals have a similar skill set (first world countries), or
(c) they do actually hire americans, but they hire specific ones with specific skill sets that they need.
*it's a separate rant, but that's also why everyone has to go to college to get a high school level education nowadays. Maybe 10% to 20% of kids would benefit from a degree under a sane system. 20% to 40% should be learning a trade. The rest would be doing 'unskilled' labor or homemaker.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 01 2019, @08:01AM
So, you're saying, it's racism? Check.
(Stupid uneducated Americans! Cannot distinguish patriotism and racism! Ha! The world laughs at you silly Americans, and your silly, knees-bent, running about behavior!)
(Score: 2) by Gaaark on Friday February 01 2019, @01:19PM (9 children)
"1/ Neocons didn't fuck up education, that was the leftist 'everyone must be equal' program that screwed up all the smart kids.*"
AND the conservatives squeezing all the money OUT of the schools.
--Who needs class sizes under 40 students per teacher. That's just idiotic!
What they should do is force private schools to only spend per student as much as the public system is allowed (or force rich kids to attend only the public system): you would see more spending in the school system.
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 01 2019, @02:32PM (3 children)
The U.S. is #2 in the world [oecd.org] in spending on education and has been in the top 3 for as long as I can remember. Why should we give the schools a thin dime more when they completely waste what we give them?!
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Gaaark on Friday February 01 2019, @03:01PM (2 children)
https://data.oecd.org/eduresource/spending-on-tertiary-education.htm#indicator-chart [oecd.org]
You spend 35.2% of education money on public schools.
You spend 64.8% of education money on private schools.
Hmmm... why are the poor less educated than the rich? And why do the rich stay rich and the poor stay poor, EXACTLY as the rich want it?
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 01 2019, @03:46PM (1 child)
If the Indian education system churns out Doctorates and Masters in a manner similar to this https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-31998343/ [bbc.com] style of learning, accrediation, and validation of skills, then I fear that Americans have been doing it wrong all these years!
I mean... my parents grounded me when I received poor grades--something about learning from the experience and negative outcomes lead to bad results, etc. Maybe it didn't inspire me to study as much as they hoped, but it kept me in line at least.
The parents in the article seem to have taken a different (and very direct) approach to the educational system! Who needs to study when you can do that??
Anyway, I am incredibly curious how validation and attestation of the actual degrees involved will be verified on authenticated. We have all met people with degrees or certifications next to their names that might otherwise have left one wondering how someone so dumb could achieve that stuff (on paper, at least).
I hope we don't end up becoming jaded as a society that education isn't worth it, due to working with an influx of the best-of-the-best that really just meant as far as skills and education is concerned, they had rich parents with good connections, and everything else was learned on the job (or not even that, and instead outsourced to "lessers").
Heaven forbid they feel entitled; that arrogant expectation happens outside of the USA, too! https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-29950843/ [bbc.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 01 2019, @03:57PM
Argh it didn't log me in. Well. let it be known I thought that picture in the first link is classic; it's an old article but I still am amazed by it! My high chool wouldn't let us even listen to a transistor radio, let alone cds or tapes or anything pre-recorded, nor books or anything at all, and anyone humming or bouncing their knees or something to some internal beat would be visited and told to stop.
We got to sit and stare when we completed our tests ahead of anyone else, and had to do it quietly (groans of anguish were OK on occasion).
It seems like some other educational systems are more festive in nature compared to what I experienced with public schooling!
(Score: 1, Flamebait) by The Mighty Buzzard on Friday February 01 2019, @04:27PM (4 children)
Meh, I'm personally in favor of demanding performance if you want state money (which I'm not in favor of to begin with). If your local school is doing a shitty job compared to similar districts, damned right they shouldn't get more money. They should either be closed down or everyone employed by the district should be fired and the whole shebang should be restaffed. Subsidizing something gets you more of it every single time. Subsidize failure and you get more failure, be it in life or education.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by Gaaark on Friday February 01 2019, @04:53PM (1 child)
But if you knock something to the bottom and then start judging it from there, you will get bottom results.
If the school system got funding like the private system, they would be able to vet and hire better teachers, have smaller class sizes, get the 'slower' or 'problem' kids a '''separate but equal''' (however you want to define that) education...
Equal funding might see equal results: but that is not what the rich want. They want to pay for THEIR kids PRIVATE, well funded education; they do NOT want to pay for other kids PUBLIC education, which just helps the rich stay rich and the poor stay poor and uneducated.
Funding for smaller class sizes would allow a teacher to help more and maintain control better. Disallowing 'helicopter' parents would also be a help, probably: kids should be allowed to play outside AND if they get hurt by falling off the monkey bars, there are no lawsuits (except for reasonable negligence), just good life lessons (as well as lessons in physics, muscle control, logical thinking, etc).
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Friday February 01 2019, @05:42PM
Thus judging them vs their peers.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Gaaark on Friday February 01 2019, @05:25PM (1 child)
AND, we need more of this:
http://www.swanson.school.nz/Site/Free_Play.ashx [school.nz]
https://youtu.be/uADHiCuq1SI [youtu.be]
Kids actually playing in the school yard, NOT standing around bored and filled with frantic energy when they go back into the classroom.
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Friday February 01 2019, @05:42PM
That ain't no shit.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Friday February 01 2019, @02:54AM (4 children)
Anecdote: I have some American- and Canadian-born work mates. Above average, certainly better than most of the Indian ones, especially in terms of initiative and problem solving.
So... maybe there's a case to be made that good American professionals are starting to consider migrating away from US, so the ones that choose to stay are "stupid"** and "lazy"++?
It's not like it's impossible.
** for not seeing other solutions
++ for not even bothering to learn their other options
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by krishnoid on Friday February 01 2019, @03:30AM (1 child)
In fairness, some of the Indian ones are probably better than [wikipedia.org] most of the Indian ones, too.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Friday February 01 2019, @04:57AM
There's no denying.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Hartree on Friday February 01 2019, @09:26PM (1 child)
It's usually the case that immigrants are above average for the population they come from. You've immediately eliminated those too sick, unmotivated, low intelligence, etc, etc to make the trip. There are of course exceptions.
(Changed the title because Nagas are pretty cool and letting them immigrate would be seriously rad. This announcement brought to you by the National Surrealist Party)
(Score: 2) by krishnoid on Saturday February 02 2019, @05:17AM
Plus -- those people too change-averse/comfortable/familiar with their current situation, whatever and wherever [youtube.com] it is -- to seek out new life and new civilizations. There's a kernel of that in all of us.
(Score: 1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 01 2019, @03:33AM (2 children)
Immigrants are willing to come into America because they will make more money here than they will in most of their home countries. There is also the huge potential of eventually gaining American citizenship. Americans going elsewhere will not commonly make more money elsewhere, nor is citizenship in another country as big a gain.
Also, not many other countries are stupid enough to let in mass waves of Americans. They like their countries to be for them and their kin, not a rootless cosmopolitan way-station.
You are correct that many Americans are lazy. This is because they've learned that their hard work will not be rewarded, the jobs will go to immigrants, the promotions will go to those immigrants who accept less pay (because that sweet US residence and/or citizenship is worth so much to them), and those immigrants will in turn heavily hire and promote other immigrants. Reading report after report of American IT workers, for example, being fired and told to train their immigrant/H1B replacements or they won't get any severance... why would any hard working or smart American go into the IT field? When hard work is punished, you get less of it!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 01 2019, @04:59AM
That looks more like a bug than a feature.
(Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Friday February 01 2019, @07:56PM
You sound like a Trump supporter.
How do you feel about the fact that this change is INCREASING the amount of H1-B visa holders by 16 percent?
(Score: 5, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Friday February 01 2019, @11:41AM (7 children)
No, we don't. The H1-B program is nothing but an attempt by corporations to pay workers whose skills are in high demand as if they were common skills rather than rare ones by using the global supply pool rather than the national one. It doesn't just hurt Americans, it hurts everyone with the skill in question across the globe.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by idiot_king on Friday February 01 2019, @03:59PM (4 children)
Immigration hurts NO ONE. Anyone who says different is a bona fide xenophobe. And: "From each according to her/his ability, to each according to her/his need." Funny thing is that corporations, which are SUPPOSEDLY based on competence hierarchies, should adhere to this to drive profits. But they don't because of embedded societal racism/sexism/bigotry, and so on. Importing labor is NECESSARY for the capitalist machine to even work, oddly enough. But capitalism allows as many contradictions as possible to maintain its facade of "stability." And if these skills were really in high demand, why aren't they giving them to inner city minorities who don't have jobs, especially if these immigrants, also anecdotally, don't have the same skillset as people "educated" here? It's because those people don't have the appropriate skills because of a damaged education system which has crippled the ability of minorities and low income folks to climb the societal ladder -- one of the core tenets of American Capitalism.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Friday February 01 2019, @04:28PM (2 children)
Apt nick.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 01 2019, @07:50PM (1 child)
Backatcha bird brain =P
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Friday February 01 2019, @11:13PM
More of a reply wasn't warranted given the extreme absurdity of the content of his post.
Have to take issue with your assessment though. Actual buzzards are also fond of fermented things but they don't fish.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by toddestan on Saturday February 02 2019, @12:30AM
The thing you're missing is that H1b isn't about immigration. H1b is a work visa. The people who are brought over through H1b don't get to stay, at some point the visa runs out and they have to go home. Sure, some do decide they want to stay and get off the H1b bus and successfully immigrate to America, but that's a minority.
Now, I'm not completely opposed to the idea that if a company needs a certain skillset, and they really and truly can't find an American to fill the job, then they can bring someone in. But that's not what the H1b visa is about - there's actually other visas that can be used in those kind of situations like the O1 visa. Most H1b visa holders are hired for junior entry level jobs, and that actually hurts the people you mention. If they work hard and make it through college, they suddenly find that they are competing with a bunch of cheap imported labor for all those entry level positions.
Ultimately, while the companies benefit from the cheap imported labor, in the end it hurts them and it hurts America too. Because when those people with their work visas eventually go home, they take their knowledge and experience with them. Already we have companies complaining they can't fill senior level positions. Well, all those senior level people were once junior level people, and if no one hires local junior level people, soon there won't be any local senior level people either.
I'm not at all opposed to immigration, but programs like H1b either need to be seriously curtailed or ended entirely.
(Score: 2) by Freeman on Friday February 01 2019, @04:49PM (1 child)
I would argue, that it may not hurt those in developing countries. Sure, it may eventually turn into a negative, but I'm thinking right now it's not. In fact, all this outsourcing to India could be extremely helpful to the local population. It sure isn't helpful for the American populace, though. It also seems to be hitting Australia as another recent article pointed to.
Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
(Score: 3, Informative) by The Mighty Buzzard on Friday February 01 2019, @05:48PM
Outsourcing is the opposite of what's being done with H1-B. You're harming India by taking their best and brightest and harming America by depressing wages. Putting data centers or what not in India is actually a good idea for both nations. It provides cheaper services for the US population and/or frees up profits to be spent expanding your business and thus creating jobs. What jobs you have available in a nation isn't nearly as important as how much they pay and that they exist in the first place.
Not call centers, mind you. If you work in a communication job being able to communicate effectively is pretty fucking important.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.