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In 1987, a man, a woman, and their daughter attended a Tchaikovsky concert at the Hollywood Bowl. The most notable thing about their outing, all these years later, is something that actually wasn't the least bit unusual: The two women waited in an interminably long line for the bathroom, while the man did not.
What separates their uncomfortable experience from those of innumerable others is that the man in their party was a California state senator. After witnessing just how long his family members had to wait, he introduced legislation to guarantee the state's women more toilets.
In the three decades since, dozens of cities and states have joined the cause of "potty parity," the somewhat trivializing nickname for the goal of giving men and women equal access to public toilets. These legislative efforts, along with changes to plumbing codes that altered the ratio of men's to women's toilets, have certainly helped imbalances in wait times, but they haven't come close to resolving them.
"It still remains a huge problem today, overall," says Kathryn Anthony, an architecture professor at the University of Illinois who has studied the issue for more than a decade. The issue persists for many reasons: the exigencies of real estate, the building codes that govern construction, and, of course, sexism.
Source: https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2019/01/women-men-bathroom-lines-wait/580993/
(Score: 5, Informative) by Azuma Hazuki on Monday February 04 2019, @12:03AM (45 children)
1) We can't just unzip and have a whizz. If there is anything I envy men for it's the ability to take a piss standing up.
2) As an extension of 1), we have to clean more thoroughly. Men can just shake it a bit, or so I'm told. This is also why women use more TP on average, because we have to use it every time no matter what we did.
3) Sometimes we go in there just to take a few minutes to decompress.
4) If it's Shark Week, this is where you go to change a pad or a tampon, if you trust those.
5) Also, did you know Shark Week sometimes includes more water retention *and* more peeing? Or sometimes really bad gas?
Now you know, and knowing is half the battle!
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 0, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 04 2019, @12:15AM (1 child)
Sadly I'm not sure if the shit posters here are capable of the 2nd half.
"And once again, 'equality' is rejected when the outcome isn't what the perpetual victims desire."
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 04 2019, @11:03AM
Azuma Hazuki is a notorious feminazi shit poster here, Anon.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by ShadowSystems on Monday February 04 2019, @12:24AM (13 children)
Azuma Hazuki, thank you for posting.
I had come to post that "Men can spend half their bathroom needs standing up at a wall & then walk away. Women spend *all* their bathroom needs sitting down & can't just walk away."
Now that I am blind & must use a stall every time (don't dare stand at a urinal, I can't see to aim), I too spend more time using the bathroom.
I think the problem would be eased if we turned ALL bathrooms into unisex with just lots of stalls & no urinals.
Any guy that simply peed all over the seat could be screamed at by the next person in line & promptly beaten to death by the women waiting in line.
If you only have the space to install two bathrooms in your building, instead of dividing them into one for each gender, you could make them both unisex, cater to everyone, & shorten the length of time *anyone* had to wait in line to relieve themselves.
Make restroom attendants mandatory again & give them a shocky stick, that way if you don't wash your hands afterwards you'll get a not-so-gentle reminder about sanitation.
And I'm not just saying that because I think I'd like to be given a REASON to smack the non-hand-washing morons with an electric cattle prod.
*Cackle*
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 04 2019, @12:29AM (10 children)
Why are you obsessed with washing hands afterwards? If anything your hands are getting your genitalia dirty, so people should wash their hands beforehand.
(Score: 5, Touché) by crb3 on Monday February 04 2019, @01:40AM (2 children)
Unless you jet-spray your crotch every time after defecating, you have particles of shit spreading all through your underwear. Plus, if you piss at a standup urinal, you probably come away with a mist of splashback settled on your hands. That's what washing your hands gets rid of.
Don't believe me? Have a female friend sniff your hands for aromas after your bathroom break -- their noses work better than ours.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 04 2019, @05:21AM
the non-hand-washers make the office coffee and are big big hand shakers
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 04 2019, @03:33PM
Have you hard of Japan? They solved it by going "yep, auto-bidets for everybody."
(Score: 0, Troll) by realDonaldTrump on Monday February 04 2019, @01:49AM
There's the wash before. And there's the wash after. I do both. I wash my hands as often as possible because I feel cleansed. That makes me smart.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 04 2019, @01:54AM (5 children)
How did you get this far through life still believing this misconception? Didn't anyone ever tell you that fecal particles travel in your sweat onto your genitalia?
(Score: 0, Disagree) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 04 2019, @04:12AM (4 children)
No, because my sweat isn't filled with poo particles... If it was it would smell like poo.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 04 2019, @05:18AM (3 children)
It does. Trust me.
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 04 2019, @05:23AM (2 children)
You think everything smells like poo though.
(Score: 3, Touché) by arulatas on Monday February 04 2019, @03:45PM (1 child)
Well when they don't wash their hands and pick their nose... you can understand why.
----- 10 turns around
(Score: 2) by realDonaldTrump on Tuesday February 05 2019, @12:21AM
You lost track of who said what. Very easy when they're all Anonymous!!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 04 2019, @09:20AM
that would increase the wait time for everyone as men would now also take longer on average to take a piss
(Score: 2) by Arik on Monday February 04 2019, @11:11AM
There's no need to get rid of the urinals, leave them in and there are fewer people competing for the stalls.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 04 2019, @12:24AM (4 children)
Men who "just shake it a bit" have piss in their underwear. You can't clear the dregs with a shake, but a quick dab with a folded sheet of TP will.
But we already know that most men don't give a shit about not smelling like piss, because urinals are still a thing.
lol
"I KNOW there are 20 other women waiting in line to take a shit. I don't care. I'M DECOMPRESSING!"
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 04 2019, @01:00AM (3 children)
How your tighty whiteys must be soiled? Don't think I've owned light colored underware since I was a young child. There are different chemical compositions to male and female urine, male urine contains more calcium and black female pee contains less calcium than that of white females. Female animals scent to attract mates, males to repel reproductive competition. Whatever the chemical differences, male urine does not stain so indelibly as female urine. This isn't "sexism", it's biology. Shake that a bit!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 04 2019, @01:18AM
Concern about this keeps me awake at night. I asked online and someone finally came along and explained some things and I remember feeling at ease, but I apologize because I don’t remember the specifics. Hopefully someone comes along to explain it and do that same for you.
(Score: 5, Informative) by crb3 on Monday February 04 2019, @02:40AM (1 child)
>Men who "just shake it a bit" have piss in their underwear
As we get older, our plumbing loses its tautness and elasticity, and then, like a garden hose that dribbles a bit after the faucet's turned off, we've got a horizontal standpipe holding enough for a short racing-stripe down one pant-leg. The fix is to run a thumb or finger along underneath, inside or outside your pants, starting right from where the piping comes out of the prostate, to flatten the tubing and expel what's stored, before you put it away.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 04 2019, @08:33AM
No karma to give, but thanks for this. I’m reaching an age where the dribble-ness is getting annoying. Looking forward to trying this next time.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 04 2019, @12:26AM (3 children)
You could take a piss standing up. It was standard for women. This is why traditional women's clothing is open at the bottom.
Add underwear and pants though, and you've cast aside one of the advantages of being a woman.
BTW, aiming is possible. Practice in a tub. Put one finger to each side of the clitoris, then tug upward or to the side as required to aim.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 04 2019, @12:32AM (2 children)
Yep, my little sister taught herself to pee "like a boy" (aka while standing up) when we were young. They also have those little prosthetic dicks women can use to direct the stream and easily pee standing up with.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 04 2019, @01:14AM (1 child)
Yet men bitch about having to put the seat down. I presume there is a big overlap on that Venn diagram.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 04 2019, @06:03PM
I chose to overlook your Venn diagram. You're fired!
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 04 2019, @12:27AM
You need to watch the movie "The Full Monty". A woman uses the urinal on a chicks only night at the local pub.
(Score: 5, Funny) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday February 04 2019, @01:12AM
S'truth. You gals got the less efficient plumbing. On the other hand us guys die earlier so you'll be able to take forever to piss on our graves.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by Arik on Monday February 04 2019, @01:46AM (3 children)
I will take only a moment to remark on how odd it seems that it acknowledges biological differences can be determinative! There, done.
Now, having conceded there is some truth, I do think it's just a bit pat to write the whole thing off as biologically determined. I have particular difficulty believing this because I have lived in situations which proved to me that at least part of this is cultural.
"If there is anything I envy men for it's the ability to take a piss standing up."
Sure, our equipment is more designed for it, but if you spend much time in southern Europe (or other places, I am sure) you'll quickly find out that women do it all the time nonetheless. So it's not that you're not capable of it so much as you're not accustomed to it. This is cultural. Italian women squat over a hole in the floor, pull a napkin out of their pocket for a dab, and head back out on the dance floor without thinking about it.
"Sometimes we go in there just to take a few minutes to decompress."
And THIS is a big part of the reason for the problem right there. That's abuse of public accommodation really, but you're right, it's rampant. As a result of one selfish woman camping the john when she shouldn't be there, another woman is stuck waiting in line doing the peepee dance for ages. Second woman's husband/father is a state Senator, so soon you have more women's toilets. And more women taking even more time in them doing things other than what they're there for, so, wouldn't you know it? We need to spend even more money on more women's toilets.
And somewhere along the way we also lost the ability to call them 'toilets' - outside of the darkweb and soylent, of course. No, they're 'restrooms.' As if they were put there for us to rest in. Trust me, guys don't rest in toilets.
The Europeans, to their credit, faced this challenge quite practically. Instead of building more women-only facilities, they just made it all unisex. Works wonders. No one waits any longer than anyone else to get in - and no one really feels like it's an appropriate space to camp out and "decompress" while a line builds up outside the door either.
"Also, did you know Shark Week sometimes includes more water retention *and* more peeing? Or sometimes really bad gas?"
Sounds like a normal day to me.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday February 04 2019, @03:37AM
Only when women folk is around or you live somewhere the residents have delusions of grandeur, otherwise we call them the shitter.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by Azuma Hazuki on Monday February 04 2019, @04:11AM
> I will take only a moment to remark on how odd it seems that it acknowledges biological differences can be determinative! There, done.
For fuck's sake, I am not and never have been [what the loonie right refers to as] a postmodernist, or one of those "everything is a social construct!!!11one" types. Let go of that strawman or you'll go up in the blaze when I torch it.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Monday February 04 2019, @06:51PM
I will take only a moment to remark on how odd it seems that it acknowledges biological differences can be determinative!
And also how zero SJW's are freaking out about it. It's almost like those folks you're so terribly frightened of aren't real.
(Score: 2, Funny) by nitehawk214 on Monday February 04 2019, @05:20AM
The other half of the battle is red lasers and blue lasers.
"Don't you ever miss the days when you used to be nostalgic?" -Loiosh
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Monday February 04 2019, @05:29AM
Won't ever be able to understand this - I'll put it down into the "forever mysteries in the women mind" column.
In all occasions I'm there (except the one I need to get rid of what feels as a barrel of beer,) any moment I'm in a toilet increases my tension.
I also don't get why they are called "rest rooms" - no likely that I'd ever take a nap close to the pissoir or while sitting on the toilet above some smelly faecals I just disposed of. Would you?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 1, Troll) by darkfeline on Monday February 04 2019, @06:09AM (2 children)
I understand you're biased toward defending your own sex, but the real reason is just that women feel entitled.
I have read multiple accounts that women can pee standing up (example https://www.yourtango.com/2016290905/womans-guide-pee-standing-up-like-man) [yourtango.com] There are also many products assisting women in peeing while standing, and having done some basic research reading reviews as if I were to buy one, there are quite a few highly rated products.
And there are female urinals that provide the same convenience as male urinals. The reason they aren't adopted are social. Women don't use them even if installed. They would rather wait in long lines for stalls.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_urinal [wikipedia.org]
So this problem is entirely self inflicted. Not by any single woman, but socially women would rather wait in long lines for a stall than use a urinal. So the solution is clearly to reduce facilities for men to accommodate the special needs of women.
> Sometimes we go in there just to take a few minutes to decompress.
It is hilarious and sad you can say that with a straight face. Because women are disrespectful in their use of public facilities, we should build more toilets for them? If a child steals candy from other children, we reward them with more candy?
Join the SDF Public Access UNIX System today!
(Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Monday February 04 2019, @06:54PM (1 child)
Such entitlement! I also feel entitled to NOT insert some prosthetic device up my pee hole in order to relieve myself.
(Score: 2) by darkfeline on Tuesday February 05 2019, @06:28AM
It looks like you missed the half about female urinals. Sure, you may be entitled to "NOT insert some prosthetic device up my pee hole" (ignoring the fact that many FUDs (female urination devices) don't require pee hole insertion, just as you may be entitled to not use female urinals while complaining about long lines waiting for stalls. You sure as hell aren't entitled to not being judged for it though.
Join the SDF Public Access UNIX System today!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 04 2019, @06:20AM
Azuma, you rock...just have to tell you that.
(Score: 2) by choose another one on Monday February 04 2019, @10:24AM (1 child)
Can't or won't ? The physical plumbing doesn't seem to be the problem. I've seen people with vaginas pissing in "mens" urinals, I've seen them go and piss in the bushes just like people with dicks, and I've seen them squat and piss in the street. Writing your name in the snow would seems to be the only thing that's really a lot harder with a vagina.
The real issue is that _most_ people with vaginas, in the western world _don't_ do this _most_ of the time (the peeing in the street IME usually involves the person being very drunk), while _most_ people with dicks do. Some, a minority, can't - on either side there are medical conditions that may prevent - most _can_ but choose not to.
Oh and that "just shake it a bit" don't work so well as you get older and the prostate starts playing up, just so you know we ain't pissed down our leg or forgotten to shake it...
Since that seems to be the major part of the problem, maybe rather than more toilets we should be providing toilets + decompression room (chamber?) - be a f*** of a lot cheaper it fyou didn't have to equip them with all the plumbing.
Yup. Did you also know that once the "fun" of menopause kicks in it may not be only a week and may be every three weeks or less? Some things you don't need first hand experience but learn from those close to you (no not _that_ close get away I'm having a hot flush).
Did you know that drinking beer by the pint causes (a lot) more peeing? I can remember when it was scandalous for a girl to order a pint, and it's _still_ dangerous for a man to order a half (a significant fraction of the few times I've been physically threatened by strangers in my life, and I very rarely do it), so maybe that evens it up a bit...
(Score: 2) by acid andy on Monday February 04 2019, @11:32PM
Ask them to put it in a pint glass. Then no-one will know. Except the bartender of course, so if they're the ones threatening you, you're out of luck.
If a cat has kittens, does a rat have rittens, a bat bittens and a mat mittens?
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 04 2019, @12:39PM
How woman stand up pee [duckduckgo.com] and woman stand up pee [google.com] photos and videos.
But with a little bit of practice those are not even necessary.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 04 2019, @01:32PM (1 child)
Talking to the cleaners in my work building I discovered that the main problem in the women's toilets was that they squat on the seat.
Yes. On the seat. So their ass doesn't have to touch the seat.
This causes several problems the first of which is that the toilet seats break.
The second is that the body fluids spray wider than they would compared to if the person's ass was on the seat closer to the bowl.
It's disgusting to clean up.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 04 2019, @01:35PM
There are a couple of ways to tell that you have Chinese or Indian people at work.
Looking at the state of the stalls is a dead giveaway.
It is gross cleaning up after people who can't or won't use a modern loo properly.
Signs do not help so what are we supposed to do?
(Score: 2) by OrugTor on Monday February 04 2019, @04:30PM (1 child)
Re 3), assuming that 'decompress' means regain sanity or similar, does the decompressing woman use a stall? Asking that made me think about women going into the bathroom with no intention to use a stall. Might a better bathroom design have the basins in a section with their own entrance. It would connect with the stalls section so going from basins to stalls would be stigmatized, or an emergency, honor system.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Monday February 04 2019, @06:06PM
I'm a multitasker, so if I'm in a stall it's because there *is* a big download of one sort or another in the queue. It does help to take a few moments afterwards to just relax and let time and space catch up with you, though.
This leads into a off-topic tangent about womens' "invisible labor." A good deal of us--not all, especially not if the younger Snapchat generation is in question here--push ourselves hard, but don't complain about it. And because we don't speak up (and we don't speak up because women who speak up are bitchy or complainers, as opposed to men, who are just shooting the shit when they do it...) most people don't recognize what kind of strain we're under. My mother was like this too, which is likely where I inherited it from. So 2 or 3 minutes to just not do anything aside from evacuate waste has a surprisingly disproportionate effect.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Monday February 04 2019, @08:11PM
More like can, but won't. I've seen women pee in men's urinals successfully, but it appeared a delicate balancing act to adopt a functional stance while not touching the fixture. Ingrained squeamishness, it seems.
As for cleaning, again it's a change in approach. Men could, and probably should, use toilet paper after peeing, but they don't. Women could hold themselves in such a way and shake at the end the way men do, but they don't. Ingrained squeamishness.
Physically they could, but culturally they won't. In Vietnam everybody, men and women, does their business over holes in a platform standing on stilts off the river bank. In China women use roadside latrines that consist of squatting at the edge of a plank suspended across a cesspool; those lines move fast, faster even because of the stench.
Shark week is a different story.
Washington DC delenda est.