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posted by martyb on Tuesday February 05 2019, @04:31AM   Printer-friendly
from the hello-ruble dept.

https://www.truthdig.com/articles/goodbye-to-the-dollar/

The inept and corrupt presidency of Donald Trump has unwittingly triggered the fatal blow to the American empire—the abandonment of the dollar as the world’s principal reserve currency. Nations around the globe, especially in Europe, have lost confidence in the United States to act rationally, much less lead, in issues of international finance, trade, diplomacy and war. These nations are quietly dismantling the seven-decade-old alliance with the United States and building alternative systems of bilateral trade. This reconfiguring of the world’s financial system will be fatal to the American empire, as the historian Alfred McCoy and the economist Michael Hudson have long pointed out. It will trigger an economic death spiral, including high inflation, which will necessitate a massive military contraction overseas and plunge the United States into a prolonged depression. Trump, rather than make America great again, has turned out, unwittingly, to be the empire’s most aggressive gravedigger.


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  • (Score: 5, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 05 2019, @04:36AM (50 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 05 2019, @04:36AM (#796488)

    You have to be really ignorant to blame Trump for something that has been overdue for over 40 years. It is a nazi g this Ponzi scheme has lasted as long as it did.

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  • (Score: 4, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 05 2019, @04:38AM (6 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 05 2019, @04:38AM (#796491)

    "A nazi g" was autocorrect for some typoed version of "amazing"...

    • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 05 2019, @10:58AM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 05 2019, @10:58AM (#796595)

      wow, that's a nazi g.

      • (Score: 3, Touché) by Gaaark on Tuesday February 05 2019, @10:18PM

        by Gaaark (41) on Tuesday February 05 2019, @10:18PM (#796938) Journal

        Fascist nating, Captain.

        --
        --- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
    • (Score: 5, Funny) by FatPhil on Tuesday February 05 2019, @11:10AM (3 children)

      by FatPhil (863) <pc-soylentNO@SPAMasdf.fi> on Tuesday February 05 2019, @11:10AM (#796599) Homepage
      You're saying what you typed came out all goebelled?
      --
      Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
      • (Score: 4, Funny) by Rivenaleem on Tuesday February 05 2019, @01:54PM

        by Rivenaleem (3400) on Tuesday February 05 2019, @01:54PM (#796656)

        I did amazing that coming!

      • (Score: 4, Funny) by Thexalon on Tuesday February 05 2019, @02:58PM (1 child)

        by Thexalon (636) on Tuesday February 05 2019, @02:58PM (#796679)

        Boo! Hess!

        --
        The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
        • (Score: 2) by Gaaark on Tuesday February 05 2019, @10:59PM

          by Gaaark (41) on Tuesday February 05 2019, @10:59PM (#796957) Journal

          Traitor! I vill Hit ler you!

          --
          --- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
  • (Score: 4, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 05 2019, @04:45AM (31 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 05 2019, @04:45AM (#796492)

    Blaming Trump for stuff that happened in 2014:

    And, as ominously, foreign governments since 2014 are no longer storing their gold reserves in the United States or, as with Germany, removing them from the Federal Reserve.

    Unbelievable.

    • (Score: 3, Funny) by driverless on Tuesday February 05 2019, @05:48AM (19 children)

      by driverless (4770) on Tuesday February 05 2019, @05:48AM (#796503)

      Blaming Trump for stuff that happened in 2014:

      And, as ominously, foreign governments since 2014 are no longer storing their gold reserves in the United States or, as with Germany, removing them from the Federal Reserve.

      Unbelievable.

      Trump blames everything on his predecessors, principally Obama, so we may as well play the same game and blame this one on Trump.

      And I have my suspicions about the Wall Street Crash as well...

      • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Tuesday February 05 2019, @06:29AM (18 children)

        by fustakrakich (6150) on Tuesday February 05 2019, @06:29AM (#796525) Journal

        And I have my suspicions about the Wall Street Crash as well...

        You can blame that on Hoover

        --
        La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
        • (Score: 2) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Tuesday February 05 2019, @06:33AM

          by MichaelDavidCrawford (2339) Subscriber Badge <mdcrawford@gmail.com> on Tuesday February 05 2019, @06:33AM (#796529) Homepage Journal

          The Great Depression was far worse than it otherwise would have been due to the Federal Reserve's efforts to support the price of gold. That led it to _not_ stimulate the economy at a time when such a stimulus was desperately needed.

          --
          Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
        • (Score: 5, Insightful) by FatPhil on Tuesday February 05 2019, @11:27AM (14 children)

          by FatPhil (863) <pc-soylentNO@SPAMasdf.fi> on Tuesday February 05 2019, @11:27AM (#796607) Homepage
          Putting 1913 aside as the distal cause, and not Hoover, I think it's far more useful to find a proximal cause. And that's the QEs, and the artificially-low interest rate. The govt "experts", "economists" I think they call themselves, for some unknown reason, don't seem to realise that keeping lending interest rates unnaturally low is not the way of staving off inflation - they've not put enough different things in the basket.

          Some breadcrumbs: Money appears (QE). Loans easy (rates low). Banks flush with virtual money. "Invest" it in stocks. S&P Boom! Defaults. VIX up. Ouroborus of stop losses and margin calls. Crash.

          Same procedure as last time, Miss Sophie? The same procedure as every time, James.
          --
          Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
          • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Tuesday February 05 2019, @07:04PM (13 children)

            by fustakrakich (6150) on Tuesday February 05 2019, @07:04PM (#796844) Journal

            It's to watch them try to expand the economy without growing the population by balancing it on the point of a needle [ssrn.com]. Scarcity now has to be manufactured.

            --
            La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
            • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Tuesday February 05 2019, @07:31PM

              by fustakrakich (6150) on Tuesday February 05 2019, @07:31PM (#796860) Journal

              Let me come in again...

              It's [fun] to watch them...

              --
              La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
            • (Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday February 06 2019, @04:40AM (11 children)

              by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday February 06 2019, @04:40AM (#797060) Journal
              There are other ways to grow economies than to make more people. For example, give then a developed world life style, have them live a lot longer, or have people live off of Earth.

              Scarcity now has to be manufactured.

              Making the food we eat now requires about a third of the land surface area of Earth (1/9 agriculture, 2/9 pastureland). Land is not so abundant that we can just ignore that as too cheap to meter.

              by balancing it on the point of a needle

              Such as not doing 5% changes in GDP per year? That's a pretty fat needle.

              • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Wednesday February 06 2019, @06:29AM (6 children)

                by fustakrakich (6150) on Wednesday February 06 2019, @06:29AM (#797082) Journal

                Over half of produced foods are thrown away. Waste and corruption (primitive tribal politics) are what cause distribution difficulties. Capitalism doesn't work without scarcity and conflict. Without stratification, money doesn't flow.

                Such as not doing 5% changes in GDP per year?

                Voodoo economics are for entertainment use only...

                --
                La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
                • (Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday February 06 2019, @04:53PM (5 children)

                  by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday February 06 2019, @04:53PM (#797227) Journal

                  Over half of produced foods are thrown away.

                  Waste would happen anyway.

                  Waste and corruption (primitive tribal politics) are what cause distribution difficulties.

                  Obsession over such things is an indication of lack of abundance.

                  • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Wednesday February 06 2019, @06:22PM (4 children)

                    by fustakrakich (6150) on Wednesday February 06 2019, @06:22PM (#797285) Journal

                    "Obsession"? Over a primary cause of our problems? Are you trying to appeal to authority again?

                    --
                    La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
                    • (Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday February 07 2019, @01:35AM (3 children)

                      by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday February 07 2019, @01:35AM (#797548) Journal

                      "Obsession"? Over a primary cause of our problems? Are you trying to appeal to authority again?

                      A lazy backhoe operator who takes two hour smoke breaks still digs faster than a guy with a shovel. Waste and corruption aren't primary with technological advancement.

                      • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Thursday February 07 2019, @03:19AM (2 children)

                        by fustakrakich (6150) on Thursday February 07 2019, @03:19AM (#797585) Journal

                        Waste and corruption aren't primary with technological advancement.

                        They are the primary impediment to efficient and equitable usage and access. You are quite the apologist...

                        --
                        La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
                        • (Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday February 07 2019, @04:09AM (1 child)

                          by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday February 07 2019, @04:09AM (#797599) Journal

                          to efficient and equitable usage and access.

                          Which is just not that important. You started by emphasizing 50% food wastage. That's not very much.

                          You are quite the apologist...

                          What is this conversation supposed to be about? I'm hearing a lot of wooshing above my head right now.

                          • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Thursday February 07 2019, @05:06AM

                            by fustakrakich (6150) on Thursday February 07 2019, @05:06AM (#797622) Journal

                            I'm hearing a lot of wooshing above my head right now.

                            Apparently so. You are simply hand waving away the entire truth. You are defending corrupt and wasteful authority. Cui bono

                            --
                            La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
              • (Score: 2) by qzm on Wednesday February 06 2019, @08:43AM (3 children)

                by qzm (3260) on Wednesday February 06 2019, @08:43AM (#797097)

                > Making the food we eat now requires about a third of the land surface area of Earth (1/9 agriculture, 2/9 pastureland)

                Complete and utter bullshit. from someone who has obviously not traveled much.
                Huge swarths of what get counted as 'pastureland' are not in any way actual pasture, because they count ALL grasslands as pasture.
                Including a whole great load of africa, for example.

                If you look at the percentage of the planet used at a reasonable level of intensity for such purposes, it is much MUCH smaller..

                • (Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday February 06 2019, @04:52PM

                  by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday February 06 2019, @04:52PM (#797223) Journal

                  Huge swarths of what get counted as 'pastureland' are not in any way actual pasture, because they count ALL grasslands as pasture.

                  If the grasslands has farm animals grazing it, it's pastureland.

                  Including a whole great load of africa, for example.

                  Not seeing the problem.

                  If you look at the percentage of the planet used at a reasonable level of intensity for such purposes, it is much MUCH smaller..

                  I think we are doing so. I'll check my sources later when I get the time to see if there's a problem with them.

                • (Score: 2, Informative) by khallow on Thursday February 07 2019, @02:13AM (1 child)

                  by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday February 07 2019, @02:13AM (#797566) Journal
                  From the Wikipedia article on agriculture:

                  Under the FAO's definitions above, agricultural land covers 38.4% of the world's land area as of 2011. Permanent pastures are 68.4% of all agricultural land (26.3% of global land area), arable land (row crops) is 28.4% of all agricultural land (10.9% of global land area), and permanent crops (e.g. vineyards and orchards) are 3.1% (1.2% of global land area).

                  Not all the land was in present use, but it doesn't include land that was fallow for more than five years.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 05 2019, @03:37PM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 05 2019, @03:37PM (#796698)

          I blame Columbus. Had he never discovered America, Wall Street wouldn't even have existed!

          • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Tuesday February 05 2019, @07:36PM

            by fustakrakich (6150) on Tuesday February 05 2019, @07:36PM (#796863) Journal

            Yeah, we'd all be like, "Occupy Frankfurt" 'n stuff...

            --
            La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
    • (Score: 1) by shrewdsheep on Tuesday February 05 2019, @08:55AM (5 children)

      by shrewdsheep (5215) on Tuesday February 05 2019, @08:55AM (#796558)

      And, as ominously, foreign governments since 2014 are no longer storing their gold reserves in the United States or, as with Germany, removing them from the Federal Reserve.

      And, this is pretty much ignorant babble. Gold reserves have never been stored in the US. The US has trade deficits left and right. Countries do exchange their surplus dollars into gold (money being in the US implies gold is there). From time to time the surplus gold is transferred back. Still countries hold gold in the US in order to maintain high dollar liquidity. What is true though is that Bush and Trump did a wanton attack on the dollar by reckless debt accumulation. Obama did too, but arguably less unprovoked. That can work as long as the dollar is the world's currency. Dollars are used by other countries to do their trading and they need the dollars first. However, the US will soon pass the debt of Greece GDP-wise. The writings are on the wall.

      • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 05 2019, @09:33AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 05 2019, @09:33AM (#796566)

        2008-2016 were years of unprecedented devaluation of the dollar in order to pump the stock market.

        https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/fedfunds [stlouisfed.org]
        https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/WALCL [stlouisfed.org]

      • (Score: 3, Touché) by Thexalon on Tuesday February 05 2019, @03:01PM (3 children)

        by Thexalon (636) on Tuesday February 05 2019, @03:01PM (#796682)

        Gold reserves have never been stored in the US.

        So you're saying the US Bullion Depository [wikipedia.org] at Fort Knox doesn't exist? I mean, anyone who's seen Goldfinger knows about that!

        --
        The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
        • (Score: 3, Informative) by ElizabethGreene on Tuesday February 05 2019, @08:46PM (2 children)

          by ElizabethGreene (6748) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday February 05 2019, @08:46PM (#796897) Journal

          So you're saying the US Bullion Depository [wikipedia.org] at Fort Knox doesn't exist?

          No, he's saying the Gold Vault in the New York Federal reserve bank https://www.newyorkfed.org/aboutthefed/goldvault.html [newyorkfed.org] doesn't exist. It's the one where foreign countries deposit bullion as foreign reserves. It is, as the great grandparent mentioned, the facility that our German friends decided to repatriate their gold from in 2017. https://www.kitco.com/news/2017-08-24/Germany-Gets-Its-Gold-Back-From-The-Fed-And-It-s-A-Big-Deal.html [kitco.com]

          • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday February 05 2019, @11:32PM (1 child)

            by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday February 05 2019, @11:32PM (#796973) Journal

            It is, as the great grandparent mentioned, the facility that our German friends decided to repatriate their gold from in 2017

            So, you say where Simon Gruber failed, others succeeded?
            Well, bound to happen, I guess. Bruce Willis is no longer what he used to be.

            --
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
            • (Score: 3, Informative) by ElizabethGreene on Wednesday February 06 2019, @09:29PM

              by ElizabethGreene (6748) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday February 06 2019, @09:29PM (#797416) Journal

              >So, you say where Simon Gruber failed, others succeeded?

              Herr Gruber didn't want to take it back to Germany, they were going to buy a country.

              There were some lively conspiracy theories that the German gold might already be gone in 2012-2013. The backstory is that Bundesbank asked the aforementioned reserve bank to help them repatriate the gold and the timeline estimate for repatriation was many years. It turned out that estimate was overly generous, and they finished in 2017 instead of 2020.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 05 2019, @09:50AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 05 2019, @09:50AM (#796572)

      Wasn't there an issue with Germany actually getting their gold back?

      ISTR some fun story about them having even been denied access to check that the stuff was actually still in the Federal Reserve's vaults...

    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by FatPhil on Tuesday February 05 2019, @11:12AM (3 children)

      by FatPhil (863) <pc-soylentNO@SPAMasdf.fi> on Tuesday February 05 2019, @11:12AM (#796601) Homepage
      -1 Can't Fucking Read

      If you cannot distinguish between "Donald Trump has unwittingly triggered the fatal blow" and "Donald Trump is responsible for this and everything before this", then you are too ill-equipt to offer anything useful to the conversation.
      --
      Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 05 2019, @11:27AM (2 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 05 2019, @11:27AM (#796606)

        He hasn't triggered anything and has no responsibility for this scam at all. Also, if he did unwind it that would be a good thing in the end.

        • (Score: 2) by bob_super on Tuesday February 05 2019, @06:01PM (1 child)

          by bob_super (1357) on Tuesday February 05 2019, @06:01PM (#796795)

          Can't even give him the benefit of owning that.

          Bush Junior was the one who did it. Clinton left a superpowerful US with budget surpluses that were shrinking the debt (voted by R congress).
          W squandered all of it, the goodwill, the shrinking debt, the smack-you-and-we're-out foreign interventions, just as China was rising. Cherry on the cake, his government spent 6 years not preventing the Great Recession.

          Yes the US has bounced back, created lots of riches, still has the best weapons, many of the most advanced companies... but it ain't the same great growing stable welcoming reassuring US that it used to be. People will keep using the place to grow their money, but they are a lot more careful about it. And trust matters.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 06 2019, @09:23AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 06 2019, @09:23AM (#797107)

            Clinton only had a surplus on paper, US Debt went up under Clinton

            (yes accounting technically if you take out a billion dollar loan this year with no income, then you are a billion dollars in the green this year, neet how that works isn't it)

  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by HiThere on Tuesday February 05 2019, @05:38AM (8 children)

    by HiThere (866) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday February 05 2019, @05:38AM (#796501) Journal

    If you want to say "you should have seen this coming", then yes. But blaming Trump isn't wrong, because his actions have been such that it was essentially forced to happen.

    OTOH, in the long term this may turn out to be for the best. I hope that long term isn't too long in getting here, though.

    --
    Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
    • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 05 2019, @05:57AM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 05 2019, @05:57AM (#796509)

      Trump has zero to do with this. They laugh at his power at the fed (at ~15:25): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okAIf5-BDAQ [youtube.com]

      Also, the death of the dollar has been in the works for a long time: https://bitcoin.com.au/1988-economist-magazine-prediction-come-true/ [bitcoin.com.au]

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 06 2019, @08:06PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 06 2019, @08:06PM (#797350)

        do all these people really not understand that this is all part of the larger plan for the new world odor? i mean wtf is wrong with these people?

    • (Score: 2) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Tuesday February 05 2019, @06:35AM

      by MichaelDavidCrawford (2339) Subscriber Badge <mdcrawford@gmail.com> on Tuesday February 05 2019, @06:35AM (#796530) Homepage Journal

      During economic downturns, there will be no way to infuse cash into the economy.

      During times of high interest rates, there will be no way to lower them, because there will be no central banks to sell off bonds at lower rates.

      Now, I _do_ strongly support crypto, and even own an ASIC rig, but mostly for privacy as it's clear that paper currency's days are numbered.

      --
      Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
    • (Score: 4, Insightful) by DeathMonkey on Tuesday February 05 2019, @05:04PM (3 children)

      by DeathMonkey (1380) on Tuesday February 05 2019, @05:04PM (#796747) Journal

      If you're hurtling towards a cliff and you refuse to hit the brakes then you no longer get to blame the fall on gravity.

      • (Score: 2, Insightful) by fustakrakich on Tuesday February 05 2019, @07:19PM (1 child)

        by fustakrakich (6150) on Tuesday February 05 2019, @07:19PM (#796853) Journal

        Yeah well, the driver has a parachute, what does he care about the passengers? He'll go back up and fill the bus with another bunch of suckers who will believe he "really did try to save them". There's a parable in there :-)

        --
        La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 06 2019, @05:38AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 06 2019, @05:38AM (#797072)

          The Lemmings and the Orange?

      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by dwilson on Tuesday February 05 2019, @09:08PM

        by dwilson (2599) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday February 05 2019, @09:08PM (#796911) Journal

        What if you loudly proclaim to your loyal voters that "Gravity is only a scientific Theory", mumble something about Alternative Facts, and then stomp on the accelerator?

        --
        - D
    • (Score: 2) by loonycyborg on Tuesday February 05 2019, @07:49PM

      by loonycyborg (6905) on Tuesday February 05 2019, @07:49PM (#796872)

      We can't really "see anything coming" as far as economics is concerned. The World's understanding of economics is currently on cargo cult level, everything tends to be seen in simplified way, purely in terms of money. But money are very subjective, same sum can buy totally different amount of wares depending on circumstances. Yet only flows of actual goods and services actually make economy work, and not enough effort is put into understanding them directly without money intermediary. This really can add some biases, both for scientists and actual participants of the economic relations.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 05 2019, @05:24PM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 05 2019, @05:24PM (#796767)

    Moreover, it's ignorant to blame Donald Trump for something that also happened under Hillary Clinton in my original timeline.

    As you noted, this has been a long time in coming. There are larger forces at work than which puppet of the MotU is in the oval office.

    We already have the concentration camps, even if they are being run by ICE instead of FEMA in this timeline. BRICS (and perhaps the EU) will soon move away from the US dollar. Once that is complete, there will be martial law, and it will be directed (and scapegoated upon) the Yellow Vests and similar working class protests. Stay away from major cities.

    Around that time, World War 3 will begin, and it will end with N-Day.

    The walk to the gas station will be for your own good. Keep a spare gas can for when the car runs out of fuel on the side of the road.

    unless

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 06 2019, @12:29AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 06 2019, @12:29AM (#796987)

      Moreover, it's ignorant to blame Donald Trump for something that also happened under Hillary Clinton in my original timeline.

      Wait, whaaat??? Hillary was President? When did that happen?!? Man, you conservative dittoheads sure have some interesting alternative facts!