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'It will take off like a wildfire': The unique dangers of the Washington state measles outbreak
[...] "You know what keeps me up at night?" said Clark County Public Health Director Alan Melnick. "Measles is exquisitely contagious. If you have an under-vaccinated population, and you introduce a measles case into that population, it will take off like a wildfire."
[...] Anti-vaccination activists, for their part, contend that state officials are twisting facts to stoke public fear.
"It shouldn't be called an outbreak," Seattle-area mother Bernadette Pajer, a co-founder of the state's main anti-vaccine group, Informed Choice Washington, said of the measles cases, arguing that the illness has spread only within a small, self-contained group. "I would refer to it as an in-break, within a community."
[...] Clements eventually changed her mind, deciding to give her kids the shots after a doctor at a vaccine workshop answered her questions for more than two hours, at one point drawing diagrams on a whiteboard to explain cell interaction. He was thoughtful, factual and also "still very warm," she said.
[...] In Washington, state lawmakers supporting tougher vaccine requirements are mounting their second effort in the past three years to make it harder for parents to opt out of vaccinations.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 08 2019, @06:24PM (17 children)
If you want to convince people:
1. Don't try to hide the risks. You'll be caught, and then you won't be trusted.
2. Don't push all vaccines equally. Polio is gone from all but 3 countries, and STDs are avoidable. Pushing all vaccines equally destroys your credibility.
3. Don't treat all environments the same. A kid in a huge urban preschool has a different risk profile than a rural stay-at-home kid. Again, trust matters.
4. Don't be stingy about injury payouts. This includes having an excessively narrow window of time in which harm is considered to be vaccine-caused. The narrow window looks suspicious. It looks like an attempt to deny that vaccine injuries are in fact vaccine injuries... because it is. Cut that shit out.
5. Don't lump multiple vaccines together. There are people who take a hard line on vaccines made via cell cultures that originate from aborted children. If you put 3 vaccines in one shot, and just one of them is made that way, then you just expanded a religious objection from 1 vaccine to 3 vaccines. Quit being stubborn on this. It looks really bad.
6. Speaking of that, find another damn cell culture. This is not hard.
7. Don't insist so hard on early vaccination. It's far easier to correctly diagnose problems in a kid who can describe symptoms. If you inject babies, you are just asking to be blamed for ANY problem that occurs.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 08 2019, @06:34PM
Brilliant. Thank you, Sir.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 08 2019, @07:23PM (6 children)
While your points are all good explanations of where the anti-vaxxers might be coming from you are asking medical professionals to change their advice to be more palatable to the ignorant. That is unethical for them to do, and wrong to ask of them.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 08 2019, @08:56PM (2 children)
If medical advice does harm for good reason, is that ethical?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 08 2019, @10:03PM
Citations please
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 09 2019, @04:23PM
It's not the advice that's the problem, it's the fact that there are willfully ignorant people engaged in paranoid rants about the alleged issues with vaccinations. Vaccines aren't perfect, but for most people the issues are minimal or non-existent.
Allowing the ignorant to make money spreading the lies isn't helping anybody and can hurt those who couldn't get the vaccinations.
This isn't like the flu vaccination that can lead to what looks identical to the flu. Lying about that is unethical, if you wind up sick with flu-like symptoms for a week, it's foolish to try and convince the sufferer that they didn't get the flu. I won't ever get another flu shot unless they come up with a permanent shot as it's not worth the reaction.
(Score: 2) by lentilla on Saturday February 09 2019, @03:38AM
It's no good being correct if people won't listen to you.
Unfortunate as it may be, oftentimes the "best" solution has to be negotiated downwards to second or third best to appease the fools, and from there it is merely a matter of sales and marketing. I don't believe the grandparent is asking medical professionals to change their advice - they are suggesting a change of approach. If we developed vaccines with a hint of organic free-trade-sourced patchouli and that resulted in an uptake of vaccinations - well, so be it.
If you can't reason with fools... manipulate them.
(Score: 2) by sonamchauhan on Saturday February 09 2019, @04:48AM
No one is asking for advice to change. Just effective alternatives to be presented.
This is commonsense. We do this everyday at work for our bosses. Why is this hard?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 10 2019, @08:11PM
stfu bitch.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 08 2019, @08:09PM (5 children)
Wait, what? Is that a real thing?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 08 2019, @08:41PM (4 children)
These cell cultures go back decades. Some baby was aborted long ago, and cells from that baby live on to this day. There are whole factories full of these cells to produce the vaccines.
The Pope said that the vaccine is the lesser evil, so Catholics can officially use these vaccines. (would be different if continued abortions were required) His statement seemed pretty reluctant though, and he allowed for the possibility of taking a different stance on the matter. Some people want to be more strict, feeling that it is improper to indirectly profit from killing a child.
(Score: 1) by Sulla on Friday February 08 2019, @10:14PM (2 children)
Can you provide some citations on this please? Sounds like an interesting read.
Ceterum censeo Sinae esse delendam
(Score: 3, Informative) by DeathMonkey on Friday February 08 2019, @10:35PM (1 child)
Do Vaccines Contain Aborted Fetal Tissue? [verywellhealth.com]
(To be honest, I was trying to disprove the AC but was forced to learn something, instead)
(Score: 1) by Sulla on Friday February 08 2019, @11:15PM
When I read the comment I presumed they were just used as the source for stem cells or something. Interesting to read about following the recent thread we had about using research that was only found through unethical means. I wonder what cells in particular were used from the original source. If it were stem cells can they be derived from the umbilical court as well?
Some interesting pages I came across
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immortalised_cell_line [wikipedia.org]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cell_culture [wikipedia.org]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_contaminated_cell_lines [wikipedia.org]
The immortalized cell lines are interesting. Get some of your cancer used in research and a part of you gets to live indefinitely.
Ceterum censeo Sinae esse delendam
(Score: 2) by Gaaark on Friday February 08 2019, @11:00PM
WAIT A SECOND....HOLD ON...
People STILL listen to the Pope?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.... do they still listen to the Howdy Doody show, too?
Give. me. a. break.
"No..no, seriously...allowing a priest to molest your child is GOOD for them: vaccinates them against the DEVIL!"
First Jive Dude: Shiiiiit, maaaaan. That honky muf' be messin' mah little boy... got to be runnin' cold upside down his head, you know?
Second Jive Dude: Hey home', I can dig it. Know ain't gonna lay no mo' big rap up on you, man!
First Jive Dude: I say hey, sky... subba say I wan' see...
Second Jive Dude: Uh-huh.
First Jive Dude: ...pray to J I did the same-ol', same-ol'!
Second Jive Dude: Hey... knock a self a pro, Slick! That gray matter backlot perform us DOWN, I take TCB-in', man!
First Jive Dude: Hey, you know what they say: see a broad to get dat booty yak 'em...
First Jive Dude, Second Jive Dude: ...leg 'er down a smack 'em yak 'em!
First Jive Dude: COL' got to be! Y'know? Shiiiiit.
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 1) by doke on Friday February 08 2019, @10:10PM
I agree that most of the advice is too simplistic, and there are important details being left out. However, a full writeup of all of that information will get ignored by most of the target audience as "too long, didn't read". So they have to start with a massively simplified version, and make more details available to people who actually care enough to ask.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 10 2019, @08:13PM
they are damaging babies on purpose. they will never change this plan voluntarily.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 11 2019, @10:27PM
Injury claims are paid out without proof now - you want to widen the window?
It's like buying auto insurance, then getting in an accident, and blaming the insurance.