Submitted via IRC for Bytram
'It will take off like a wildfire': The unique dangers of the Washington state measles outbreak
[...] "You know what keeps me up at night?" said Clark County Public Health Director Alan Melnick. "Measles is exquisitely contagious. If you have an under-vaccinated population, and you introduce a measles case into that population, it will take off like a wildfire."
[...] Anti-vaccination activists, for their part, contend that state officials are twisting facts to stoke public fear.
"It shouldn't be called an outbreak," Seattle-area mother Bernadette Pajer, a co-founder of the state's main anti-vaccine group, Informed Choice Washington, said of the measles cases, arguing that the illness has spread only within a small, self-contained group. "I would refer to it as an in-break, within a community."
[...] Clements eventually changed her mind, deciding to give her kids the shots after a doctor at a vaccine workshop answered her questions for more than two hours, at one point drawing diagrams on a whiteboard to explain cell interaction. He was thoughtful, factual and also "still very warm," she said.
[...] In Washington, state lawmakers supporting tougher vaccine requirements are mounting their second effort in the past three years to make it harder for parents to opt out of vaccinations.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 08 2019, @08:22PM (16 children)
So the real thank-you is that I'm now playing worse than Russian roulette odds of getting adult measles if we have an outbreak? How bad is measles for adults?
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 08 2019, @08:44PM (3 children)
No idea, I just know people used to spread it around on purpose when one kid would get it because it wasn't considered a big deal for children. Same as chicken pox until recently.
https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/b7e0/c83a2232536a507ef061563000b59d97db66.pdf [semanticscholar.org]
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4007870/ [nih.gov] [nih.gov]
Found this about adults, who knows if it is typical though:
https://www.ejinme.com/article/S0953-6205(13)00708-5/fulltext [ejinme.com]
(Score: 1) by Sulla on Saturday February 09 2019, @12:04AM (2 children)
I have always been interested in the idea of our species changing the world around us in ways that would benefit us. While it is worth keeping cultures of viruses and bacteria that cause us issues, I think it is also very worth it to eradicate them in our environment. To some extent we would have issues with new ones evolving, but why then not trace those back to their hosts and eradicate them there? Would bats be worse off if we eradicated the diseases the effect them? Chickens? I don't know, but I think it would be worth finding out.
Something else that falls into the same category is eradication of pest species
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cochliomyia_hominivorax [wikipedia.org]
Is an example of this where we eradicated the Screw Worm north of the Mexico border and in some countries in South/Central America. Is it playing god? Yeah. But is it worth it? Very.
A concept I like that pops up in SF is populating new virgin planets but doing so without any of the baggage we bring with us from earth. If you populate a planet with the settlers not having any of the viral holdovers from Earth, will they be able to evolve on their own with enough speed that they could not be eradicated before they spread?
Ceterum censeo Sinae esse delendam
(Score: 2) by SpockLogic on Saturday February 09 2019, @02:50PM (1 child)
No so fast, there was a recent outbreak in the Florida Keys. Mother Nature has a habit of making a comeback.
Not that the nasty little flesh eating fuckers don't need eradicating, they do*.
https://www.aphis.usda.gov/aphis/ourfocus/animalhealth/nvap/vet_acred_alert [usda.gov]
*I ain’t got nothing against double negatives.
Overreacting is one thing, sticking your head up your ass hoping the problem goes away is another - edIII
(Score: 1) by Sulla on Saturday February 09 2019, @03:12PM
I hate florida so god damned much
Ceterum censeo Sinae esse delendam
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 08 2019, @08:48PM (10 children)
Also, this video shows how scary measles used to be (getting measles was treated as a joke on tv): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7zwNZOg8mE [youtube.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 08 2019, @09:08PM
"Measles", said the doctor.
"Mumps", said the nurse.
"Nothing", said the lady with the alligator purse.
(Score: 2) by sjames on Friday February 08 2019, @11:50PM (8 children)
It is important to keep this in perspective. The worst effects of Measles aren't that common. At the same time, they aren't non-existent and kids that didn't get the measles vaccine also didn't get mumps or rubella vaccine. While most people who get those are just fine as well, when complications do happen, it can be bad.
Complications from the vaccine are FAR less common.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 09 2019, @09:24AM (7 children)
It seems to be around 1 in 10k people for both. Actually much higher (6 in 10k) for brain injury after the vaccine...
I don't want to bother with digging up my source at the moment but will check back tomorrow with it if you respond with interest.
(Score: 2) by sjames on Sunday February 10 2019, @04:49AM (6 children)
I would like to see some real figures, particularly for brain injuries since my recollection is that it is far less common.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 10 2019, @06:56PM (5 children)
Sources:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12415036 [nih.gov]
Ignoring autism:
Then, percent of cases of serious measles just before vaccination was introduced in western countries:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20789272 [nih.gov]
I wouldnt take these more seriously than as order of magnitude estimates though...
(Score: 2) by sjames on Monday February 11 2019, @01:08AM (4 children)
I don't think those figures mean what you think they do. In the first study, those numbers are for all causes. Only 9 cases of encephalitis and 10 of aseptic meningitis (all causes) occurred within 3 months of the vaccination. No data is provided on how many of those resulted in permanent disability (if any). They concluded that there was no clustering of those, autism, or irritable bowel around measles vaccination. From what we know from other studies, there is some clustering of encephalitis at least, but apparently a sample size of half a million isn't large enough to see it.
The figures from the second article were just the deaths.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 11 2019, @03:50AM (1 child)
Nope in one sense. They choose to study what they want the results to mean. It doesn't take more than trusting what they say to see that.
(Score: 2) by sjames on Monday February 11 2019, @08:43AM
I'm not really sure what you're saying there...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 11 2019, @12:58PM (1 child)
Cases of pneumonia after measles is also "all causes", there is no magic way to attribute it specifically to the measles infection just like there is no way to attribute a case of brain injury to a vaccine.
(Score: 2) by sjames on Monday February 11 2019, @09:47PM
You can never be absolutely certain, but it is reasonable to do what the first study did and apply a 3 month window compared to 3 month windows where the patient did not have measles (or the vaccine).
(Score: 2) by legont on Saturday February 09 2019, @04:54AM
Bad. One should be ready for pneumonia as a side effect.
If you are worried, you should get a refreshment shot.
"Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.