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March: We Are Legion (We Are Bob) (Bobiverse #1) by Dennis Taylor
Discuss The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress by Robert A. Heinlein in the comments below.
Fiasco was translated into English in 1988 by Michael Kandel:
Fiasco (Polish: Fiasko) is a science fiction novel by Polish author Stanisław Lem, first published in a German translation in 1986. The book, published in Poland the following year, is a further elaboration of Lem's skepticism: in Lem's opinion, the difficulty in communication with alien civilizations is cultural disparity rather than spatial distance. The failure to communicate with an alien civilization is the main theme of the book.
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SoylentNews Book Club - Discuss: The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, Start Reading: Fiasco
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QOTD:
The forest may be quiet, but that doesn't mean
the snakes have gone away.
(Score: 2) by NotSanguine on Wednesday February 13 2019, @11:23PM (2 children)
I do not accept your definitions of fantasy vs. science fiction. Life is like that sometimes.
As such, I agree that I disagree with you. You can do the same if you like.
I am a little curious as to what you thought of the story. so far, you've posted on this topic seven times without discussing the story itself, the quality of the writing or anything specific to the novel other than to say that:
1. It doesn't fit *your* version of what science fiction *should* be;
2. The concept of a self-aware computing device is completely ridiculous and always has been;
3. Stories written without scientific data and theories available in 2019 are fantastical, even if they were written before 2019.
None of those general topics touch on the novel itself, other than to "prove" that you're better and smarter than Heinlein.
Did you enjoy the story?
Was it engaging?
Were the characters relatable?
What was your take on the blatant and biased liberty vs. tyranny threads?
Given the backstory of the Luna colony (shades of Botany Bay and early North American convict transportation/indenture), did the mix of cultures/languages and customs make sense?
Did the various polyandrous marital relationships, given the serious male to female asymmetry, seem forced or contrived?
Did you even bother to read the novel?
Inquiring minds want to know that sort of thing much more than your personal definitions of common terms or your dismissive pronouncements on what people thought, believed and pursued scientifically 50-plus years ago.
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 2) by HiThere on Thursday February 14 2019, @06:27AM (1 child)
I'm not better and smarter than Heinlein. I could never have written those stories, and they're excellent fantasy.
Heinlein wasn't a technologist. In his stories the technology is always background material. The foreground is human interaction. I could never do that part, and that's the important part in building a story that grips you. I read the book three times before I started noticing that it was fantasy, so I've got to admit I rather liked it. I don't particularly like it anymore, but I've changed, and the book isn't new to me anymore either.
The story was engrossing, and I liked the characters. Heinlein is usually about duty vs. liberty, or some similar choices. This was true all the way back to the 1940's. I suppose "All you Zombies" could be considered an exception, so I guess always is really too strong, but just barely. If you don't like that kind of political argument, you won't like Heinlein. I can't say the mix of languages made sense or didn't. It certainly never bothered me. I'm not sure that using the moon as a "Botany Bay" would make economic sense without some sort of sky-hook, and that wasn't included in the story. (Even then I find it dubious, but that was a matter that hadn't previously obtruded into my notice.)
As to the date...no. You're missing the point. There was good reason to know at the time that the proposed mechanism for AI wouldn't develop as simply as the story supposed. Heinlein ignored that not because he couldn't know, but because it was a fictitious engine...i.e., it was there to move the story forwards. He needed it to be plausible enough that not many people would care. I.e., he was intentionally writing fantasy. Contrast this to "Mission of Gravity" where it still wouldn't work that way, but the author did his best to make things plausible. That's not fantasy, even though we now know it wouldn't work that way. Because he made it as accurate as he could. Heinlein wasn't interested in that, he was interested in the human interactions...and for that he needed a computer with a human living inside it as software, so that's what he wrote.
Personally, I usually prefer good fantasy over careful science fiction, but this is partially because there's so little science fiction written (despite what it says on the label). Science fiction takes a long time to write, and a lot more effort, and it has to skimp on human interactions, because you've only got so may words allowed. There's been some really interesting science fiction written, but none that's really been popular, because it's intellectual rather than gripping. The closest to an exception that I can think of is "Masters of the Metropolis" Authors: Lin Carter and Randall Garrett Date: 1956-01-00. That was published in Astounding, and was a spoof of Hugo Gernsback, and I think in particular of "Ralph 124C41+". But it was science fiction of a weird sort, too.
Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
(Score: 2) by deimtee on Friday February 15 2019, @04:13AM
Given when he wrote it and the rapid advances in rocketry, it was expected that the cost of getting to the moon would be much lower than it currently is. But even with that, while it may not have made economic sense to ship criminals and dissidents to the moon it it is much more politically acceptable than a bullet in the head and a mass grave.
Your comparison to Botany Bay is apt and is the reason for all the aussie slang. Which do you think would cost less, and which was actually used : a quick hanging and burial or a 12000 mile ocean cruise and maintaining a garrison at the destination?
If you cough while drinking cheap red wine it really cleans out your sinuses.