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"President Trump will sign the border security compromise package on Capitol Hill to avert another government shutdown and will take the extraordinary step of declaring a national emergency to obtain funding for the border wall, the White House announced Thursday."
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Trump will sign border security bill, declare national emergency, White House says
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Everything you know is wrong!
(Score: 1, Disagree) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 15 2019, @04:57AM (54 children)
This is a good thing.
1. There is nothing wrong or evil about building a border wall. Democrats have kicked and screamed about something they actually support in principle.
2. Trump gave Congress a chance to fund the border wall. Now that he has found out the exact amount of money he can extract from Congress, he is getting the rest from places like the overfunded military.
3. If Congress is peeved about the use of the national emergency, they can pass new legislation limiting the power.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 15 2019, @05:23AM (35 children)
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 15 2019, @05:34AM (34 children)
You've forgotten that the wall pays for itself by stopping illegals, drugs, and crime.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by khallow on Friday February 15 2019, @05:36AM (5 children)
Except, of course, when it doesn't stop those things.
(Score: 2) by Whoever on Friday February 15 2019, @05:42AM
I think you forgot "employees for Trump properties".
(Score: 2, Informative) by Runaway1956 on Friday February 15 2019, @03:50PM (3 children)
If walls don't stop crimes, why do all the liberals in congress, and Hollywierd have walls around their homes? Why do Hillary and Barrack both walls around their homes?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 15 2019, @03:58PM
for the same reason i have a privacy lock on my hello kitty diary. it wont keep out anyone determined, but might prevent a crime of convenience. its harder to escape via rescaling that wall with a bag of heavy loot than it is from a house where you're just going to go out the same window you broke in through, and no further obstructions.
youre better than the argument you wrote runaway, dont be lazy
(Score: 2) by urza9814 on Friday February 15 2019, @04:16PM
Yeah, because those folks certainly haven't committed any crimes. Those walls are working great!
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday February 16 2019, @12:27AM
You are missing something important: *scale.* A nation is not a single house. There is far more that goes on inside a country than inside a single residence. Single residences do not have, for example, immigration programs, to begin with. Fewer than 10 people (I hope...) live in a given normal-size house.
This comparison is not only not right, "das ist nacht einmal falsch" as the saying goes...
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 3, Insightful) by c0lo on Friday February 15 2019, @05:45AM (25 children)
And, if you believe those, you've forgotten how to think rationally.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 1, Troll) by physicsmajor on Friday February 15 2019, @10:00AM (20 children)
Says the person who presents no supporting evidence whatsoever for their position.
Physical barriers demonstrably reduce illegal crossings. Like a lock on your home, everything is at some level delay and/or illusion - social engineering, lockpicking, breaking a window instead - someone determined can gain entry.
So do you lock your doors at night, or leave them wide open?
Oh, and do you have an issue with the huge number of illegal aliens creating massive drains on our welfare, education, medical, and social systems who are paying nothing in return? You know, the services which won't exist when you get to be a senior citizen at current rates? The rate of influx of this population will be most reduced by a physical barrier, even if imperfect.
Bring evidence if you want to contest these facts.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by c0lo on Friday February 15 2019, @10:33AM (3 children)
As it happens, nowadays (summertime) at night, my front door is closed but not locked, my back door is only a plastic fly screen with a hole for the cat to get out when she pleases.
No, I don't own any gun, no need for it.
Nope. None what so ever.
If you don't like it, choose a country with less powerful corporations and more social protection. Your choice.
I can't be bothered. You'll have all the time in the world to ponder on the mystery why the hell your crime rate is still high and drugs are plenty and illegal (cheap labour) immigrants are still plenty in spite of that wall expensive wall
Not that I wish you all these things, but they'll happen anyway (hint: follow the money, you'll figure out why. Or not)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 15 2019, @04:03PM (2 children)
Says the guy who DOES NOT LIVE in El Paso or San Diego.
(Score: 2) by tekk on Friday February 15 2019, @07:33PM (1 child)
Of the top 30 largest cities in the country, San Diego is the safest both in terms of murders and violent crime in general: https://www.brennancenter.org/sites/default/files/publications/2018_09_CrimeUpdate_V2.pdf [brennancenter.org]
(Score: 0, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 15 2019, @11:42PM
Don't confuse physicsmajor with facts! He's got a raging Republican paranoia going! Don't kill the buzz!
Seriously, that stuff with the amygdala brain seems to be correct: Trump supporters seem to get a rush of endorphins from being scared shitless, worrying about foreigners or Shriners coming to rape and kill them, though not necessarily in that order.
(Score: 2) by hoeferbe on Friday February 15 2019, @01:58PM (2 children)
Yes, but how how effective would Trump's wall be versus the cost?
Watch: 110 migrants use ladder to scale border wall in Arizona [tucson.com]
And is illegal boarder crossings ("entries without inspection" [EWI]) really the source of the USA's number of illegal immigrants?
Visa Overstays Outnumber Illegal Border Crossings, Trend Expected to Continue [nbcnews.com]
In fairness, I must note that despite the NBC News article's headline, I don't really see the proof in its text of the assertion that visa overstays outnumber EWIs. They just parrot the ~40% visa overstay number and never give a percentage for EWIs. The same is true of other online news reports that I found. Still, I assume EWIs must be less than 40% or it wouldn't have made the news.
(Score: 2) by deimtee on Saturday February 16 2019, @05:18AM (1 child)
That 110 migrants story doesn't make the point that the wall is useless, quite the contrary in fact. They caught the 110 because of the wall.
If you cough while drinking cheap red wine it really cleans out your sinuses.
(Score: 2) by hoeferbe on Sunday February 17 2019, @03:20PM
(Score: 5, Insightful) by ilsa on Friday February 15 2019, @03:05PM (10 children)
How about you first? All you've posted are suppositions, and even those are wrong.
If you had truly done your research as you claim you've supposedly done, you would have known that passive security measures only "keep honest people honest". They are completely useless against anyone who is determined to bypass them. There is a MASSIVE difference between petty crooks looking to score easy loot, and someone trying to escape a country. For these people, the wall is worse than useless because it wastes a lot of money that could have been spent on far more effective measures.
This is, of course, assuming your argument of "huge numbers of illegal aliens" is even true. The right is extremely fond of blowing up numbers to many many orders of magnitude in order to create easy-to-knockdown strawmen and keep the conservative outrage engine running. And if facts arn't easy to come by or manipulate, they will make them up completely (low hanging fruit: the child prostitution ring run out of a pizzaria).
So yeah, how about YOU bring up the facts first, since literally the most basic of google searches refute your "argument".
Oh, and if you're so concerned about social services, maybe you should spend less time worried about walls and more time worried about how the Republicans are doing everything they can to destroy those services without help from anyone else.
(Score: 0, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 15 2019, @03:42PM (1 child)
Didn't congress just approve sending Israel $2 billion (~$200 million/yr for 10 years) for their own wall? https://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Trumps-2019-budget-request-includes-200-millon-increase-to-Israel-542467 [jpost.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 16 2019, @06:42AM
There goes you social security at the senior age, to be buried into a concrete wall that does nothing for you.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Friday February 15 2019, @03:52PM (7 children)
True, passive security measures don't actually "do" anythingl. But, if we do like Israel, and put armed troops along the wall, then the wall becomes far more meaningful.
(Score: 2) by ilsa on Friday February 15 2019, @07:15PM (6 children)
That is true. Of course, that border is pretty darn big so it will take a lot of guards to cover the whole distance. I don't even want to know how expensive THAT would be.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Friday February 15 2019, @07:34PM (5 children)
There are already more than enough guards in Texas to do the job. We don't make the guards trudge the length of the border, wearing out their boot soles, though. Choppers and jeeps, SUV's, maybe even some ATV's. Fort Hood has it all, ready to rock and roll.
That argument against using troops for police action? Not applicable. We are being invaded, so the army can legitimately be used to defend against the invasion.
Cost? No one counts the cost when they want to send those troops overseas to bomb brown people's homes. I think maybe we could save some money using those troops to patrol the wall. No bombs necessary, just small arms. It's highly unlikely that we would ever see an incident that required a heavy machine gun.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 15 2019, @08:18PM (1 child)
bullshit
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 15 2019, @11:45PM
Nah, just Runaway's craven cowardice.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 15 2019, @08:40PM (1 child)
...by people seeking jobs and a better future for their kids. Everybody run for your lives!!!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 16 2019, @07:49PM
And their very first act in the USA is to commit a crime. Off to a good start.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday February 16 2019, @12:42AM
I'm more partial to the Rawkit Lawn Chair than the Heavy Machine Gun myself, but to each their own...
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Friday February 15 2019, @04:21PM
Says the person who presents no supporting evidence whatsoever for their position.
Bring evidence if you want to contest these facts.
And your evidence is where, exactly?
(Score: 5, Informative) by urza9814 on Friday February 15 2019, @04:27PM
How about you bring some evidence of your own for these fairy tales you're spewing?
Undocumented immigrants generally do pay taxes. Firstly because they're afraid of getting deported if they don't, and secondly because for many taxes they have no choice -- you can't just refuse sales tax, you can't refuse payroll tax (your employer can, but that's the employer committing the crime, not the employee.) These same immigrants who DO pay taxes also tend to underutilized public services, because they're afraid to give out their information because they're afraid of getting deported.
According to a report from the Congressional Budget Office, "immigration has an overall positive impact on long-run economic growth in the U.S.":
https://www.nap.edu/catalog/23550/the-economic-and-fiscal-consequences-of-immigration [nap.edu]
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Friday February 15 2019, @03:51PM
Does Billary Clinton have a wall around it's home?
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Friday February 15 2019, @04:28PM (2 children)
Israel has a wall that would put the Black Gate of Mordor to shame. They claim it has done all kinds of good for their security [wikipedia.org].
Why is it OK for Israel to have a such a barrier, but not for the United States? Why is it racist for the United States to build one, but not for Israel to build one? If people oppose spending American money on an American wall, then why do they not also oppose sending American money to a foreign country that uses it to build its wall? If walls must be torn down, then why aren't the American media screaming high, far, and loud for the state of Israel to tear down its wall? They have, after all, had 25 years since the Israeli wall was begun to do so; yet, they haven't.
I don't personally care about building walls, myself. I was there when the Berlin Wall came down, and that was a very good thing. But the double standard between this wall Trump wants and the wall Israel has built with American money and has had for a generation is quite stark.
Either put Israel through the ringer and force it to tear down its wall and stop being racist and immoral (because walls are racist and immoral), or stop fighting the wall Trump wants.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 4, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 15 2019, @05:39PM
Well, for one thing, Mexicans aren't coming into the USA to blow themselves up and take out as many gringos as possible with them. Mostly, they are looking for a job to put food on the table for them and their families. I am quite literally gobsmacked that you haven't (yet) noticed that difference. Note that this should not necessarily be construed as support for a wall at the Israeli-Palestinian border.
(Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Friday February 15 2019, @08:15PM
1) The Israeli wall is 440 mi, not 2000.
2) A lot of people don't think their wall is okay either. Just because (some of) the political establishment loves Israel doesn't mean that a large percentage of the population isn't pissed as hell at them.
You already know the answers to all these questions you pose so I assume you're being rhetorical.
I bet about 30-40% of the entire U.S. population does indeed want both walls gone.
"Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
(Score: 3, Funny) by PiMuNu on Friday February 15 2019, @04:57PM (1 child)
> You've forgotten that the wall pays for itself by stopping illegals, drugs, and crime.
and sharks! Projected 100 % rate at stopping sharks.
==
BUILD A WALL & SHARKS WILL FALL
(Score: 2) by aristarchus on Friday February 15 2019, @11:51PM
Not if the sharks have fricking lasers on their heads!! Or, for that matter, if they are carried over the wall, at altitude, by a Sharknado! And I have M****Ferkin had it up to here with all these m***fracking sharks on this mu***gerkin plane! Yea, a Wall. Sure. If it makes you feel better. Think of it kind of like a racist Maginot Line.
(Score: 5, Informative) by DeathMonkey on Friday February 15 2019, @05:28AM (10 children)
1. There is nothing wrong or evil about building a border wall.
Wasting a bunch of money on something the relevant experts in DHS, ICE, etc., say is pointless is wrong. I don't usually ascribe 'evil' to people I disagree with but doing so just to save your own ass or assuage your ego might be getting close.
2. Trump gave Congress a chance to fund the border wall.
And, during the two years both chambers were overwhelmingly controlled by Republicans, they declined.
3. If Congress is peeved about the use of the national emergency, they can pass new legislation limiting the power.
If Republicans were smart, they would pass a bipartisan bill to this effect right now. As a Democrat, I'm glad they're not very smart.
(Score: 0, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 15 2019, @08:43AM (3 children)
And if the wall drops illegal immigration by half, you’ll eat crow, right? Or will you just start crying “muh Russia”.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by fyngyrz on Friday February 15 2019, @06:21PM (2 children)
Hell, you might have to. You'll sure be eating fewer — and more expensive — fruits and vegetables.
--
What I if told you
you read the previous line wrong
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 15 2019, @06:47PM (1 child)
So weird to see people supporting slave labor, not just this about also regarding China.
(Score: 4, Informative) by fyngyrz on Friday February 15 2019, @07:45PM
WRT the general wash of immigration from the south:
WRT the drug issues that are attributed to border porosity:
--
You don't have to be crazy to work here
We'll train you
(Score: 4, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 15 2019, @12:54PM
Well, the benefit of a wall is that it will suck up billions of dollars that would otherwise be used to build bombs to drop on brown people. Is that why you don't want a wall? Why do you hate brown people?
(Score: 1, Flamebait) by Runaway1956 on Friday February 15 2019, @03:56PM (4 children)
There are zero experts in DHS, ICE, or in the progressive party. Zero. Just like the Roman Legions, if I am tasked with defending an area, the first thing I want to do, is to erect a barrier, with fighting positions on the barrier. Virtually all armies have done the same ever since Rome. Virtually all armies (except French armies) know that the wall isn't the entire answer - you also extend your presence beyond the walls. But, doing so in this case would be an act of war, a de facto declaration of war on Mexico. So, we build the wall, because we're nice guys. We don't really want a war with Mexico, so we build the wall.
Of course, if Mexico knocks hard enough on the wall, we would be obliged to give them a war.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 15 2019, @04:03PM
Wheels don't work either unless there is someone to turn it.
(Score: 2) by urza9814 on Friday February 15 2019, @04:31PM (2 children)
So all armies build walls when they go to war, but we don't want war, so we're going to act like we're at war and build a wall?
What the fuck are you smoking and where can I get some because that stuff must be GREAT....
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Friday February 15 2019, @04:41PM (1 child)
No, you can't have any. I'm Bogarding my stash.
The idea is walls keep criminals out of places you don't want criminals. Put the wall up, and MS13 will have to work a whole lot harder to get in. If we put some armed guards behind the wall, they'll have to work even harder. And, if they do work that hard, then we can defend ourselves more actively by sending troops to the other side of the wall. Remember Pancho? No, not that skinny kid mowing your lawn - I mean Pancho Villa.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 16 2019, @06:40AM
MS-13 is a US-based gang, so I don’t think a wall is going to help. But thanks for the thought.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by khallow on Friday February 15 2019, @05:33AM (6 children)
I don't really buy that, but even if we grant what you're claiming, there's no point to it. And why should we do something merely because it's not "wrong or evil"? Being incredibly dumb is not any better.
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 15 2019, @12:50PM (5 children)
Ok, who hacked the khallow account?
(Score: 1) by khallow on Friday February 15 2019, @01:06PM (4 children)
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 15 2019, @01:23PM
"People who agree with me are smart, those who disagree are batshit insane". That is the level of thought process you are dealing with.
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Friday February 15 2019, @04:33PM (2 children)
No, I'm with the AC on this one. Either somebody hacked the khallow account, or khallow was abducted and forced into re-education.
What's next, frojack declares his undying love for Hillary Clinton or Azuma starts parroting Joel Osteen?
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 15 2019, @08:06PM
You insensitive clod! Did you think to ask khallow if he had a brain tumor remission, or if someone removed the gun from his head? Did you? No. I thought not.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday February 15 2019, @11:08PM
I've made fun of Osteen before, if that helps. Though...you know that Spongebob meme where he's strutting around like a chicken or something, and whatever quote you want to mock you put under it in aLtErNaTiNg CaPs LiKe ThIs? Yeah, parroting like that.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...