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from the nothing-in-that-store-costs-1$-anyway dept.
In a Washington Post story picked up by the S. Louis Post-Dispatch, reporter Rachel Siegel asks the question "Are dollar stores a response to poverty - or a cause?"
The fundamental premise of the story is
fear the stores deter other business, especially in neighborhoods without grocers or options for healthy food. Dollar stores rarely sell fresh produce or meats, but they undercut grocery stores on prices of everyday items, often pushing them out of business.
this creates what is referred to by one patron as a 'food desert'
their unstoppable rise...keeps grocers from opening.
implications are made
With fewer options for fresh food and health care, people in a North Tulsa ZIP code have an average life expectancy of 11 years less than those in South Tulsa, according to a 2015 city report.
"It creates an overall sense of the neighborhood being run-down," said Stacy Mitchell, [of the Institute for Local Self-Reliance]. "It's a recipe for locking in poverty rather than alleviating it."
Contrariwise, these stores
are a vital source of cheap staples
The last Dollar General to open is across the street from a senior citizens home. That store, Henderson said, is a lifeline to residents.
the council thinks it's appropriate for city government to pick winners and losers in the economy.
and while not typical, some do indeed sell fruits and vegetables
grapes, apples, avocados, potatoes sandwiched between bags of fried pork skins and cases of Michelob Ultra.
It's Walmart all over again in a way.
Grocery stores run on thin profit margins - usually between 1 and 3 percent. And they employ more workers than dollar stores to keep perishable food stocked.
"It's no longer the big-box grocery store" that threatens local businesses, said David Procter, a Kansas State University professor who studies rural grocery stores. "But it's the discount retailer that's coming to town and setting up shop right across the street."
Some localities have added restrictions on the stores, for example
Mesquite, Texas, a Dallas suburb, approved changes to its zoning code last year that will limit the number of dollar stores. The guidelines prevent them from opening within 5,000 feet of each other. And stores must dedicate 10 percent of floor space to fresh food.
Tulsa is working to solve the 'food desert' problem they attribute to the stores
This month, a deal was reached with ECO Farms, a local company that focuses on indoor vertical farming to solve food deserts. Two company executives, Jim Bloom and Adam James, said that while this is their first try at a grocery store, they're intent on making healthy food a reality in District 1 - not a luxury.
"We're attending to this as a human right, not a geographic privilege," James said.
However, as the article notes - "grocery stores have struggled here before"
The nearest dollar store to me is about four-five miles (15 minutes or so) on busy backroads. My experiences with them are lack of selection and significant product gaps. Very hit or miss and you just have to go shop somewhere like Kroger or Publix afterwards anyway to finish out your list, so I don't bother as I don't have the time to spend on the extra commute and double shopping.
If everyone was like me dollar stores might not be experiencing the success they very obviously are.
So how about some other perspectives? Do Soylentils love them or hate them? Is this a first world problem?
(Score: 3, Informative) by takyon on Sunday February 17 2019, @06:05PM (16 children)
I'd go to an ALDI over a Family Dollar Tree General any day. They often knock prices to rock bottom to clear stuff out of the store. Example: 8 oz. of organic figs for $0.25 that I got a couple of weeks ago. Ends up being 2400 calories for $1. And they sell produce of varying quality but covering a good enough range for me (onions, ginger, cabbage, eggplant, sweet potatoes, radishes, etc.)
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(Score: 5, Interesting) by stretch611 on Sunday February 17 2019, @07:39PM (13 children)
Personally, I go to both.
Aldi is where I get most of my foods. While there are a few (very few) exceptions, you can't beat the value and quality for the price at ALDI. They essentially do it by only stocking store brands. They have a few brands, but if you want brand name items, the price increases significantly. I pay less for a gallon of milk at ALDI than I do for a half-gallon at the mainstream grocery store. They have a house brand of Tombstone Pizzas for $2.29, Angus Steakburgers with bacon and cheddar 2lbs/$8.50. They even have white castle burgers, but as a name brand they are similar in price to other stores.
I get pretty much non-food items at the local Dollar stores. Cheap reading glasses/sunglasses, and I also get some junk food that isn't available at ALDI. including soft drinks and White Cheddar Popcorn. Pringles (or the Frito-Lay branded Stax). USB cables for a buck as well as some kitchen utensils, why pay significantly more for some utensils that you rarely use. I also remember getting toenail clippers from the dollar store... any where else I looked they were $4 or $5; why should you pay more than $1 for clippers? They also seem to have a decent selection of greeting cards for a buck... far less than the cost of cards elsewhere.
Also, there is a new store opening... LIDL... another discount grocer like ALDI (and also originally from Germany.) They are only recently in the local area although I have not been to one yet.
Now with 5 covid vaccine shots/boosters altering my DNA :P
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 17 2019, @10:47PM (8 children)
Have you tried buying "real" food and comparing the quality. I even started getting $6/lb chicken breast because the cheap (~$2 /lb) ones around here are like mutation-level huge and get dried out really easy.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Monday February 18 2019, @02:30AM (3 children)
I don't buy a lot of meat. What other than meat and some off-brand imitation products (e.g. Triscuit) has a noticeable drop in quality? Eggs and whole milk taste the same, vegetables taste the same unless they have been sitting around too long, etc.
As it turns out, Aldi does stock some more expensive meats, prosciutto, organic produce, and other such items. I'll have to check and see if they have the "cruelty-free" $6/lb chicken.
I would love to see low cost, high quality lab-grown meat hit the shelves. But it will probably take a decade for the technology to advance and another decade to deal with regulators and livestock lobbyists.
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(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 18 2019, @03:31AM (1 child)
I've yet to notice a difference in vegetables, but it would supposedly be nutrient/mineral/contaminant content rather than directly sensible.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Monday February 18 2019, @03:43AM
Possibly. You could add a multivitamin.
Don't forget to cut out the microplastic-laden sea salt from your diet.
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(Score: 2) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Monday February 18 2019, @09:31AM
I've got some motivation to regard grass-fed beef products as more-nutritious.
I could easily verify that assertion - mostly asserted by SJW's and Conspiracy Theorists - because a good friend of mine here in PDX has an MS in Nutrition - but have yet to actually do so.
I _can_ tell you that Iron from Plant Sources - "Non-Heme" - is less Bioavailable then that of Animal Sources - "Heme", including eggs but _not_ milk, milk has no Iron - but that Vitamin C increases Non-Heme's Bioavailability.
I can _also_ tell you that Dark Chocolate - but not White nor Milk! - has quite a _lot_ of Iron: one 85% Cocoa Four-Ounce Lindt bar has something like 125% of the US RDA.
So with my twice-daily Dove Dark Bar, I each an Orange!
Good Times.
Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
(Score: 2) by stretch611 on Monday February 18 2019, @07:23AM (1 child)
Actually at Aldi, I really have not had any quality issues with their food.
Their fruits and vegetables are just as good as anywhere else, and yes, they even have organic fruits and veggies as well. All while being cheaper than the mainstream supermarkets.
Their meats are also fine, I have not had a problem with them. They do not have a butcher (at least none of the stores I have been in) so everything is pre-packaged frozen or refrigerated meats. I admit that I have received significantly higher quality mouth watering cuts of meat elsewhere, but I also had to pay a premium for it. At Aldi, I get a better quality for the price than at other places, but they generally do not have the high-end cuts. (i.e. you are not likely to find your pre-tenderized prime rib or suckling pig at Aldi, but what you do get there tastes fine.)
Now with 5 covid vaccine shots/boosters altering my DNA :P
(Score: 2) by AthanasiusKircher on Monday February 18 2019, @03:18PM
I have to say that I've started buying most of my beef from Aldi in the past couple years, and I find them consistently better than most of the standard grocery chains. You're right -- they don't have a butcher, but I disagree that they don't have "high-end cuts." They just have specific ones: you can always find rib-eye steaks or strip steaks, and they generally have certain cuts that are hard to find in most grocery stores (e.g., they almost always have skirt steak, which I quite like, but it's difficult to find elsewhere except if you go to a real butcher). Roast selection tends to be poor -- I haven't bought as many, but mostly it's chuck and some round pot roasts. Yet those are the most popular roast cuts, so it's good enough for me. (I speak from visiting several Aldi stores in a few different states, so some of this may be regional.)
But yes, they won't have "prime rib" (if you mean a rib roast), but neither do a lot of standard grocery stores except around the holidays or if you do a special order. Most times I've asked a regular grocery butcher what they have in terms of rib roasts, they look at me funny, and then perhaps tell me they can cut me a boneless one (out of the stuff they usually cut the rib eye steaks from).
Anyhow, I don't eat steak often, but these days I almost exclusively buy mine from Aldi, unless I splurge and go to a real butcher. After years of sampling "premium" steaks from grocery stores at premium prices, I usually find about a 30-50% "dud" rate -- that is, about half the time, I find the grocery steaks to be flavorless and/or with gristly fat or whatever. I paid $15/lb+ for crap.
At Aldi, I can get a somewhat thick-cut cheap ribeye and only get a 10-20% dud rate. It's still not as good as a real decent butcher, but it's a lot cheaper and I don't feel like I'm getting ripped off as much as at other grocery stores. Heck, a few months ago Aldi had prime ribeye steaks on a special buy at $15/lb., and the one I ate was among the top 5 steaks I've ever eaten in my life (and that's including some high-end steakhouses). I haven't seen that again at Aldi, but my experience has generally been positive.
I'm not going to claim Aldi stocks great meat, and yes, they don't have a huge variety. But for beef selections lately, I've been impressed compared to most stores. Other meats (chicken, pork) range from fine to pretty good. It's not going to replace a real butcher, but I'd shop for meat there over most grocery chains any day.
(Score: 2) by AthanasiusKircher on Monday February 18 2019, @03:02PM (1 child)
First off, if you don't want meat that's dried out, try buying a different cut. If you're getting boneless, skinless chicken breasts, you're getting lean protein -- which tends to dry out very easily. Or try cooking sous vide at a temperature significantly lower than the FDA recommends (but which is still perfectly safe, if done correctly).
Second, I find it difficult to believe that if you're truly buying the "cheap" chicken breasts that they're drying out -- because almost all the cheapest chicken breasts I see sold today tend to be injected with a huge amount of brine and broth to make them more artificially juicy. (And to jack up the price: those $2/lb breasts are probably more like $2.50/lb, but you're paying for a bunch of water and salt to be added to them.)
Third, I'm all for buying better quality meat, but do make sure you're actually getting better quality meat. "Free range" chicken can often still mean factory farms where the chickens spend their time in cramped buildings, but there's a door at the end of the building that none of the chickens actually ever go out of. "Natural" has no legally defined meaning. "No antibiotics" or whatever often is put on packaging where legally they couldn't inject those things into the animals anyway.
Bottom line: be sure you're investigating the place where your meat is actually coming from, if you want to pay for "quality." Otherwise, that pack of "natural, fresh, humane" etc. chicken you're paying $6/lb. for may be effectively the same as the $2/lb. chicken. Heck, check the package... maybe your expensive chicken is injected with brine, and that's why it's more juicy!
(You may know all of this -- but generally speaking, labels lie. Food producers will find just about any way of slapping a misleading term on a package if it can sell better and/or they can charge more for it...)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 18 2019, @04:35PM
I have bought both at the same time and cooked side by side, it is like they are from different animals.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Monday February 18 2019, @02:21AM
I am interested in giving Lidl a shot, but for now, it's Aldi all the way (with some other stores if I need something out of bounds of the limited inventory).
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(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 18 2019, @03:09AM (2 children)
There is a difference in quality between nailclippers. Cheap ones work, but good ones work /well/.
(Score: 2) by stretch611 on Monday February 18 2019, @07:33AM (1 child)
I am a 6'11" middle aged male with size 15 (US) (I think 49 EU size) feet.
I want nail clippers that cut my nail off and not leave something to become ingrown. I do not need (unused) built in emory boards, or a way to leverage extra power (I have enough hand strength) to cut. I do not care if it is gentle enough to not ruin painted nails or ruin designs. (I am male and these things do not apply to me.) In fact, with my size, I use toe nail clippers on my fingers as well.
Thats all I need to hear.
Now with 5 covid vaccine shots/boosters altering my DNA :P
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 18 2019, @08:52PM
Do yourself a favor, and drop $20 on a tweezerman set. No emory boards or nail-cleaning hooks, but high quality materials produced to tolerance with good QC with a design that makes it easy to get off the whole nail (they don't curve the blade and make it hard to use). Plus, you'll never bend them when your toenail turns out to be tougher than shitty chink steel.
(Score: 2) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Monday February 18 2019, @09:22AM (1 child)
What works _really_ well at Grocery Outlet is the stuff that's close to its Sell-By Date, so _every_ time I go there, I examine every item I could _conceivably_ want then note it's expiry.
That leads to my regularly purchasing ten-dollar Brie for $1.99. The Mind Simply Reels.
At G-O, one must take _great_ care to note the "Their Price" on each items' shelf price label. In general "Their Price" is Safeway's (the American Safeway; I'm unclear whether it's affiliated with the UK Safeway.) If there is _no_ Their Price, then "Our Price" is _greatly_ inflated.
For otherwise normal prices, _if_ you have wheels then you should either write each of G-O's and Winco's price in one of those Pocket Notebooks I keep going on about it, or in your device's Notes App.
Keep those prices up-to-date and Ye Shall Save!
Do I hear an Amen?
AMEN!
Thus It Is Written.
However, if you do _not_ have a car, then you must consider how far you'll have to walk in combination for how heavy each item is. Thus I always buy milk, oranges, bananas and potatoes at G-O.
There are also concerns for Animal Cruelty, so I only buy Organic Free Range Eggs - Eggs Like To Strut Their Stuff To You Know - Organic Bananas and Organic Meats - to the extent they have any in stock.
There's also the volume occupied by each item, thus I always get bread and English Muffins at G-O. If I'm flat busted, I buy a dozen moderately tasty bagels at G-O, but when I'm - never - flushed, I pay $$$$ for far-tastier fresh-baked bagels at WinCo.
I've been asymptotically approaching all these ideals more or less just one step at a time since three years _before_ I got my HUD Permanent Assistive Housing apartment. After my having experienced desperate sorrow at having shopped at G-O and WinCo Foods in North-East Portland - sorrow because _none_ of my fellow homeless ever went so far - after that I'd go out of my way to shop at the Downtown Safeway - $$$$ but good selection - or North-West Portland's Fred Meyer - OMIGOD Selection, some prices are for California Hipsters and Lumbersexuals, some are for us tempest-tossed huddled masses.
(To This Very Day I Remain Yearning To Breathe Free.)
I Swear I'm Not Making This Up:
Damn near the very finest shopping of any sort is to be had on Burnside in North-West; the very finest are on NW Burnside's side streets.
NW Burnside's Fred Meyer is _truly_ a sight to behold, as the half of the store closest to Burnside has a _vast_ array of - mostly local - Craft Beer, Fine Wines, an Honest To G-d Sushi Bar, a Mother Fucking Bistro, and what Corporate Juggernaut could be complete without it's very own In-Store Starbucks, a $$$$ hot and cold Deli and the like.
The Mind Simply Reels.
Fred Meyer is a subsidiary of Kroger; scout around for a Kroger subsidiary in your home town.
Oh, Yeah: F-M has a $$$$ $$$$ $$$$ $$$$ Olive Bar.
My _Fuck_, Does It Have To Be So HARD?
Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
(Score: 2) by takyon on Monday February 18 2019, @01:52PM
Yes, if you don't want to get hosed, you need to remember or record prices. Going by the $/oz is also helpful since you can quickly compare different sizes. Make sure they didn't print mistaken math, however.
Carry a backpack, fill that backpack. If it somehow ends up at 40+ lbs, man up and walk it off. Optionally carry one more reusable bag with lighter items that could get squashed (soft bread, eggs).
I prefer Cruelty-Prone eggs.
We can remove the cruelty all in one go with lab-grown meats (and eggs?). Until then, I'm not sparing an extra dime for slightly coddled animal slaves and misleading labels [certifiedhumane.org].
Olives are expensive (even more so at the bar) and have relatively low nutrition and calories. If it's not an on-sale jar or needed for a recipe, don't get it.
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