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from the keep-your-friends-close-and-your-enemies-closer? dept.
An article at vice.com reports The Number of U.S. Hate Groups Keeps Surging, Largely Thanks to Young, White men:
The number of hate groups nationwide reached a record high in 2018, driven partly by the persistent growth of white nationalist groups catering to young, college-aged men.
There are currently 1,020 active hate groups in America — up from 954 in 2017, and 917 the previous year, according to an annual tally by the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC). The new, young face of hate emerged from the shadows during the 2016 election and organized through a shared language of memes and under the banner of the “alt-right.” Many hailed then-candidate Donald Trump, with his hard-line views on immigration, as a hero. In celebration of his election, the alt-right’s one-time de facto leader Richard Spencer led a room full of young men in suits to give Nazi salutes.
Since then, Spencer and other prominent actors, entangled in costly lawsuits and tired of being heckled by anti-fascist protesters, have faded into relative obscurity.
At the same time, groups like Identity Evropa — whose khaki-clad members were a formidable presence at the violent “Unite the Right” rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, in August 2017— have proliferated and expanded their reach by setting up new chapters across the country. Patriot Front also grew significantly in 2018 after splintering from Vanguard America, the group linked to the 19-year-old neo-Nazi who rammed his car into a crowd of protesters during the Charlottesville rally and killed Heather Heyer.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by bobthecimmerian on Friday February 22 2019, @12:27PM (4 children)
While logically I understand you, I wasted countless hours in completely civil discussions with Trump supporters in 2015 and 2016 and didn't change a damn thing.
It's like trying to convince my parents that Pope Francis is an evil person for not making his first papal act the stripping of Cardinal Law of his position for Law's role in the Boston Diocese pedophile coverup scandal. I would have an easier time getting a toaster to change its mind. So you know what? I've given up trying. I don't insult bigots because it wastes my time, but I won't engage them either.
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 22 2019, @04:58PM (1 child)
You're not going to change their minds until their situations change. Notice where his support is coming from, these are people who in many cases have been left behind. They aren't attaching responsibility to the right group, but they're not likely to change their minds until and unless they see tangible changes in their own lives, or at least their community.
I'm more of a progressive and have serious issues with MAGA, but it's really hard to get onboard with some of these policies when I've seen so many undeserving people get help that I could never get, merely because of the color of their skin or gender. In many cases, it would come at the expense of not just me, but people who needed help even more than I did.
You can't fight racism by being racist in a different way. And as long as we ignore the fact that the biggest problem that these people at the bottom of society deal with is economic, not race or sex related, the longer this is going to continue to be a problem.
If we get the income inequality managed to a more reasonable level and there's still issues with those other problems, at that point, it's a conversation that might actually go somewhere. But, as long as we're treating it like a zero-sum game and these white men are blamed for the problems, you're just not going to convince them that their reality isn't real. It feels very real to them and to a large extent is real.
(Score: 2) by bobthecimmerian on Saturday February 23 2019, @01:43PM
Before I start, I do accept that the major problem is economic and not related to race, sex, religion, and so forth. But I think most of the stuff being labeled as "racist in a different way" is not racist at all. Say you have a set of Walmarts in New York City with the same regional manager and 60% of the bottom level workers are non-white and 50% of the bottom level workers are women, 30% of the assistant department managers are not white men, 10% of the department managers are not white men, 0% of assistant store managers are not white men, 0% of store managers are not white men. If a policy is instituted to promote women and non-whites over white men, that's not "racist in a different way". That's stripping out the effects of the previous racist policy. The white men upset that their own shot at promotion just got kneecapped have to remember that all of the women and non-whites in the store faced the same situation for the past twenty years. In effect, the white man complaint is still racist - unintentionally, but racist - "You can't treat me the same way they have been treated! That's not fair! I was treated better back then and I deserve better treatment now!"
Now again, the real problem is that Walmart and chains like it screw their employees and there should have been a nationwide strike for a $15 if not $20 minimum pay years ago. But policies to undo the effects of racism are not automatically racist.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by istartedi on Friday February 22 2019, @08:19PM (1 child)
You don't know what you've done until you've done it. "For years, there were people who politely told me I was wrong, and then I realized I was." is difficult when you're the one who's doing the telling, because it seems like nothing has registered even if it has.
Appended to the end of comments you post. Max: 120 chars.
(Score: 2) by bobthecimmerian on Saturday February 23 2019, @01:29PM
You're right, of course. And my own political views have evolved over time because of the same kind of intelligent discussion. But I've grown less patient with age, and I think the internet that helped shape my views had a smaller percentage of flame wars and trolling as a proportion of total content than we have today.