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posted by chromas on Monday March 25 2019, @06:02AM   Printer-friendly
from the ^s([^\w\d\s])(?:.*?[^\\]\1){2} dept.

Submitted via IRC for Bytram

Is Computer Code a Foreign Language?

Maryland’s legislature is considering a bill to allow computer coding courses to fulfill the foreign language graduation requirement for high school. A similar bill passed the Florida State Senate in 2017 (but was ultimately rejected by the full Legislature), and a federal version proposed by Senators Bill Cassidy, Republican of Louisiana, and Maria Cantwell, Democrat of Washington, is being considered in Congress.

The animating idea behind these bills is that computer coding has become a valuable skill. This is certainly true. But the proposal that foreign language learning can be replaced by computer coding knowledge is misguided: It stems from a widely held but mistaken belief that science and technology education should take precedence over subjects like English, history and foreign languages.

As a professor of languages and literatures, I am naturally skeptical of such a position. I fervently believe that foreign language learning is essential for children’s development into informed and productive citizens of the world. But even more urgent is my alarm at the growing tendency to accept and even foster the decline of the sort of interpersonal human contact that learning languages both requires and cultivates.

[...] The difference between natural and computer languages is not merely one of degree, with natural languages’ involving vocabularies that are several orders of magnitude larger than those of computer languages. Natural languages aren’t just more complex versions of the algorithms with which we teach machines to do tasks; they are also the living embodiments of our essence as social animals. We express our love and our losses, explore beauty, justice and the meaning of our existence, and even come to know ourselves all through natural languages.


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  • (Score: 2) by pipedwho on Monday March 25 2019, @05:54PM (2 children)

    by pipedwho (2032) on Monday March 25 2019, @05:54PM (#819643)

    Most people retain hardly any of the maths they are taught in high school beyond what they already knew from middle school. Same goes for ‘coding’. I can teach someone in a week to ‘code’ as well as most retain from a year long course in HS. At least the foreign language exposes the student to culture, and reflects a reference to their own native language.

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  • (Score: 2) by ElizabethGreene on Monday March 25 2019, @10:32PM (1 child)

    by ElizabethGreene (6748) Subscriber Badge on Monday March 25 2019, @10:32PM (#819774) Journal

    Lets go for the same benchmark. Out of 100 people, do more than two retain any of the knowledge they pick up in the class?

    • (Score: 2) by pipedwho on Tuesday March 26 2019, @01:16AM

      by pipedwho (2032) on Tuesday March 26 2019, @01:16AM (#819832)

      Even the least attentive kids that have passed the exams for a foreign language in high school will retain some portion of the information. Like any other high school subject, that is not likely to lead to fluency unless there are other factors involved (eg. pet hobby related to the subject matter, friends/family speaking the language, future career path directly related to the subject, etc). However, every subject leads to some retention of information - or at least changes the developmental path of the student based on things they have learned.

      For example, many students that study romance language also improve their understanding of English, recognising root words, etc. Another reason I think Latin is as useful a language as Spanish/French/Italian/etc. Since the student isn't likely to become fluent, the secondary benefits are still important.

      Even non-romance languages like Chinese/Japanese/etc lead to some element of cultural immersion along with how English grammar works as differentially applied to foreign grammar. Even when the student can't remember any direct words, these basic elements still remain as part of how they continued their learning process.

      This isn't to say languages are ideal, but they are certainly not a 'waste of time' any more than any other general high school subject that doesn't lead to a career directly related to the subject. High school is really about giving the student a broad enough base of subject matter that if they choose, can go on to specialise at college, university, or in an apprenticeship without a total lack of cross-subject knowledge. Or maybe change career in the future even if they have to relearn something - at least they know what they need to relearn, and learning is generally easier the second time.

      I've tutored many university students that came into engineering with no background knowledge beyond what they learnt in high school science and standard (ie. non advanced) maths classes. The little bit of maths they did made this possible. They were no more difficult to help than kids who came through high school advanced courses in calculus, computer science or electronics. And in the end, graduated university as well as anyone else.

      Same would apply for a student going into some sort of foreign language specialty at university.

      I don't advocate for forced subject curricula, but for kids that are otherwise capable, I see no downside. Although there is definitely something to be said for a less strict curriculum that doesn't penalise a student that is having a lot of trouble with a subject and would desperately prefer something else. But, at the HS level, there needs to be a balance between humanities and STEM subjects. Especially considering HS courses are quite general, and mostly not skills related training (although I admit that learning to touch type in year 9 was VERY useful). Encouraging HS students to specialise early cheats many of them out of the opportunity to grow a wide enough knowledge/experience base to better choose that speciality, or even change to another one if it turns out not to be what they expect.

      Speaking from experience here where the only HS humanities subject above year 9 I did was English. After university I went back and spent the next few years part time learning French, music (still doing that one), ancient history, some Japanese, some Latin, European history, world religions, etc. The advanced maths/phys/chemistry/engineering subjects at school were handy, but not critical, as all the material was re-introduced in my university engineering courses - and other kids that didn't have the background just spent a little more effort learning it. In the end, we all knew the same stuff. But, looking back, I would have been just as happy (probably more so), if I'd not had the option of specialising in HS. In fact I may not have chosen an electrical engineering degree since all my options would have been open, rather than the 'easy' path of just continuing with higher education in STEM.