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posted by chromas on Tuesday April 02 2019, @01:50AM   Printer-friendly
from the death,-taxes,-and-'this-causes-cancer-in-the-state-of-California' dept.

New York's Governor Andrew Cuomo, who is currently unhampered by the constraints of two party rule, has announced details of the state's new budget plan.

Some highlights include:

  • Drivers into busy sections of Manhattan will pay a 'congestion charge'
  • Single use plastic bags banned across the state
  • Closure of up to three state prisons
  • Eliminating cash bail for misdemeanor and nonviolent felony arrests
  • A permanent 2% cap on local property taxes
  • Increase in Public Education funding by 1bn
  • A new 'Mansion Tax' on homes over $25 million
  • A new internet sales tax on market providers

The Internet Sales Tax will affect companies that are marketplace providers no matter where they are located that have more than 100 sales and over $300k in total sales in the past year to New Yorkers.

The tax will

require third-party retail sites – like Amazon, eBay and Etsy – to collect and remit sales taxes when a buyer in New York purchases something from a retailer on their site. The measure would make marketplace providers collect New York state sales tax at its normal rate of 4 percent plus local sales tax, which varies based on location – such as 4.5 percent for New York City, or 4 percent for some upstate counties.

Similar measures have been blocked in previous years by groups such as tax-averse Republicans, The New York Conference of Mayors and Municipal Officials (NYCOM) and the New York Association of Towns.

Constraints on internet taxation were clarified in a recent supreme court ruling which determined "that states may collect taxes on internet sales even when the purchases are made from out-of-state retailers" making new taxes like this inevitable.

While New Yorkers will pay additional tax on purchases, adding state and multitudes of different local sales taxes on purchases is going increase costs on these sites, which will be passed on to sellers and inevitably purchasers as well.

Currently 19 states do not collect internet sales taxes, and 5 (Alaska, Delaware, Montana, New Hampshire, and Oregon) do not collect sales tax at all.

State Internet Sales Tax guide here.


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  • (Score: 3, Informative) by NotSanguine on Tuesday April 02 2019, @05:02AM (13 children)

    Those aren't the really fucked up bits. The really fucked up bit is including local sales taxes on top of state. Not because it's valid or invalid but because it's going to be a fucking nightmare to keep up with if everyone starts doing it. There's a bit of difference between keeping up with fifty rates and thirty-five thousand or so.

    I came here to post about this myself.

    From TFS:

    While New Yorkers will pay additional tax on purchases, adding state and multitudes of different local sales taxes on purchases is going increase costs on these sites, which will be passed on to sellers and inevitably purchasers as well.

    This is a solved problem and has been for a long time.

    I worked for a large retailer with lots of mail order (that job was before Internet commerce sites) business *and* retail stores, they had to (as the law has been for at least 40 years) charge sales tax on mail orders anywhere they had a physical presence. This wasn't a big deal in the 1990s, as all it takes is a look up table in a database to compare zip codes with tax rates.

    This sort of thing has been automated for a *very* long time. And given that the NY law only applies to sales from companies that do at least US$300,000/year in sales (most states have a US$100,000 threshold). As TFS points out, more than half the states [salestaxinstitute.com] already require online sellers to charge sales tax on orders to customers in their states.

    So, no. New York is way behind the curve on this, as most of the rest of the country is already doing so. As such, this law will have little impact on sellers.

    --
    No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
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  • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday April 02 2019, @12:14PM (12 children)

    Automated for large companies with deep pockets is not the same as automated for everyone. Not even close.

    --
    My rights don't end where your fear begins.
    • (Score: 2) by NotSanguine on Tuesday April 02 2019, @05:24PM (11 children)

      Automated for large companies with deep pockets is not the same as automated for everyone. Not even close.

      31 other states got there before New York, and New York's threshold is US$300,000 *and* 100 units sold *in* New York. whereas most other states have a US$100,000 threshold.

      I'd say that NY budget provision re: sales tax doesn't change much of anything for online retailers, big or small given that 31 other states already require the same thing.

      It's funny. The NY law sets the minimum requirement to collect sales tax at an annual sales volume of US$300,000 *and* 100 units sold to customers in NY State. Not total sales/revenue, sales/revenue to people in NY state.

      I really wish this information could have been put into TFS. Oh, wait. It was:

      From TFS:

      The Internet Sales Tax will affect companies that are marketplace providers no matter where they are located that have more than 100 sales and over $300k in total sales in the past year to New Yorkers.

      --
      No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 02 2019, @05:32PM (4 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 02 2019, @05:32PM (#823697)

        I think TMB was talking about Internet sales taxes in general. The easy solution would just be a national average Internet sales tax.

        • (Score: 2) by NotSanguine on Tuesday April 02 2019, @06:04PM (3 children)

          I think TMB was talking about Internet sales taxes in general. The easy solution would just be a national average Internet sales tax.

          TMB's concern appears to be with small, mom & pop shops that don't have enough money to download a file with tax rates by zip code.

          As I've (repeatedly) pointed out, even other states limit the collection of sales tax to retailers who do at least US$100,000 in a particular state. NY has a threshold of US$300,000.

          If you have a physical presence in a state, you are already *required* to collect sales tax (assuming there is a sales tax there). If you're doing more than US$100,000 worth of sales in another state, you're almost certainly doing multiples of that in your own state. If that's the case, you're not a mom and pop shop without the resources to go to the library and print out tables for tax rates by zip code. In fact, if you're doing that much business, you probably own a whole computer. Shocking, isn't it?

          --
          No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 02 2019, @07:39PM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 02 2019, @07:39PM (#823754)

            only cowardly pieces of shit collect taxes for the state.

          • (Score: 2) by Muad'Dave on Wednesday April 03 2019, @03:15PM

            by Muad'Dave (1413) on Wednesday April 03 2019, @03:15PM (#824105)

            ... a file with tax rates by zip code

            Sadly, it's not that simple. As I pointed out in another post, there are 'tax holidays' that eliminate taxes on certain categories of goods for short periods of time - think 'back to school' tax holidays or 'hurricane preparedness' tax holidays.

            What used to be a simple tax function of one variable Tax(zip) is now a gross nasty mess of tax(date, zip, UPC / UNSPC [unspsc.org] / Amazon product tax code / etc).

      • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday April 02 2019, @11:22PM (5 children)

        I don't give a shit about the state sales tax. My bitching was about including local sales taxes. You'd have known this if you'd read what I said instead of kneejerk disagreeing.

        As for the threshold, who gives a shit? $300K is chump change for sales to NY. The hotdog vendors in NYC gross that a year. That doesn't mean they net enough to feed, clothe, and house a family, much less pay $whoever to keep track of every pissant town's local sales taxes that can change on a daily basis.

        --
        My rights don't end where your fear begins.
        • (Score: 2) by NotSanguine on Wednesday April 03 2019, @12:23AM (4 children)

          by NotSanguine (285) <NotSanguineNO@SPAMSoylentNews.Org> on Wednesday April 03 2019, @12:23AM (#823867) Homepage Journal

          I don't give a shit about the state sales tax. My bitching was about including local sales taxes. You'd have known this if you'd read what I said instead of kneejerk disagreeing.

          Actually, I addressed that quite directly in an earlier post [soylentnews.org], as did an AC [soylentnews.org].

          Interestingly, you replied to that post, and I quoted that complaint from your post too. I'm not sure where you get the idea that I didn't read what you wrote.

          I wonder. How much would it cost (assuming one doesn't have a computer to download a CSV or XLS file that maps tax rates to zip codes directly) to go to the library and do so. Maybe $50 for paper? If that?

          And it's pretty clear (apparently, *you* didn't read what I wrote, as you completely ignore these points) that you're having a knee-jerk reaction to disagree with me.

          1. Anyone who is in NY has to collect state and local taxes already;
          2. That a mom and pop store run out of someone's house in, say, Texas is going to sell $300,000 worth of stuff just to NYers and not sell anything else to anyone else is complete fantasy;
          3. To point (2), it's much more likely that sales in *every other state, as well as one's own home state* will exceed sales to just NY by factors of 10 or more. As such, anyone from out of state selling $300,000 worth of goods just to NYers has revenues far in excess of that $300,000;
          4. Beyond that, 31 other states *already* require retailers to pay state/local sales tax on stuff sold to people in their states. What's more, most of those states have a $100,000 threshold as compared with NY's $300,000 threshold.

          As for the threshold, who gives a shit? $300K is chump change for sales to NY. The hotdog vendors in NYC gross that a year. That doesn't mean they net enough to feed, clothe, and house a family, much less pay $whoever to keep track of every pissant town's local sales taxes that can change on a daily basis.

          First of all, street food isn't subject to sales tax in NYC. Secondly, any retailer *in* NY already had to pay state/local sales tax when selling to people in NY. This is about folks *outside* NY selling > $300,000 *and* > 100 individual items. I'll say it again, in case you decided not to read what I wrote above:
          2. That a mom and pop store run out of someone's house in, say, Texas is going to sell $300,000 worth of stuff just to NYers and not sell anything else to anyone else is complete fantasy;
          3. To point (2), it's much more likely that sales in *every other state, as well as one's own home state* will exceed sales to just NY by factors of 10 or more. As such, anyone from out of state selling $300,000 worth of goods just to NYers has revenues far in excess of that $300,000;

          I get that you don't like it. But why loose your venom on New York? They're really late to the party and aren't doing anything that most of the rest of the states are already doing. What's more, NY's law is several times more generous in exempting people than most other states.

          --
          No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
          • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday April 03 2019, @02:13AM (1 child)

            by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Wednesday April 03 2019, @02:13AM (#823905) Homepage Journal

            I get that you don't like it. But why loose your venom on New York? They're really late to the party and aren't doing anything that most of the rest of the states are already doing.

            Because fucked up bullshit is fucked up bullshit even if every other state does it.

            No shit street vendors in NY have to deal with NY taxes. They were an analogy not an example.

            No, say the whole world ain't made up of NY! It is one of the states with the most money moving around though. By a long shot over most states.

            As for the rest, gross revenues mean nothing to a business owner. $300K gross could easily be any of $150K, $10k, tree fiddy, or -$300K net, depending on circumstances. Gross is mostly just money the owner gets to wave at is it goes past.

            Have you ever in your life paid attention to your local sales tax rate? If they get updated and it doesn't happen in the middle of the bloody year, it's a damned miracle. So, no, you can not go look it up at the library or download it from the Internet unless you want to end up paying the extra two percent out of the company till that went in around February in Tucumcari because you were using tables from January.

            --
            My rights don't end where your fear begins.
            • (Score: 2) by NotSanguine on Wednesday April 03 2019, @02:44AM

              by NotSanguine (285) <NotSanguineNO@SPAMSoylentNews.Org> on Wednesday April 03 2019, @02:44AM (#823921) Homepage Journal

              Have you ever in your life paid attention to your local sales tax rate? If they get updated and it doesn't happen in the middle of the bloody year, it's a damned miracle. So, no, you can not go look it up at the library or download it from the Internet unless you want to end up paying the extra two percent out of the company till that went in around February in Tucumcari because you were using tables from January.

              Actually, I do.

              And when I said go to the library, that was the (ridiculous) case of an Internet retailer not having a computer -- But they do have those newfangled ro-bots with access to those funny innertoobs at the library.

              And changes in sales tax rates are generally well-publicized, as they usually require legislation to make such changes, and are usually implemented at the beginning of a calendar or fiscal year.

              What's more, your analogy of some old lady knitting balaclavas in her sitting room not being able to take care of this is disingenuous at best.

              Firstly, this is about *internet* sales. As such, the retailer needs to have some sort of web presence (okay, maybe they pay the Johnson boy $10/week to run orders over from the Western Union office -- or maybe it's the Pony Express?) in order to sell stuff on the Internet.

              Secondly, Just about every seller you're talking about is going to be using something like Amazon, eBay, Etsy or some other marketplace who will handle all of this for them.

              Thirdly, if they have the resources to stand up, support and manage their own web presence, they're not Aunt Ginny knitting in her sitting room. What's more, they are *already* collecting sales tax for almost as many jurisdictions to which they are selling.

              This is a long-solved problem and NY's changes won't make even a little difference in how people run their businesses. Sorry Buzzard. Your argument just doesn't hold up.

              --
              No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 03 2019, @02:36AM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 03 2019, @02:36AM (#823918)

            Your clear, simple explanation of a topic directly related to the article has no place on this website, my friend.
            I am also deducting points for having direct experience in the matter.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 03 2019, @02:45AM

              by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 03 2019, @02:45AM (#823923)

              Seriously though, I am continually appalled that computer people have no imagination to see conceptually how this is the perfect problem for a computer to solve via simple table lookup, as you explained. Jesus, you could write a bash script to do it. The taxes table would be in text format. The item sold would have to have a tax categorization like food, clothing, etc.
              It's almost as if it were a problem a third party could solve for you and sell to you, shrinkwrapped.