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posted by martyb on Saturday April 13 2019, @05:36PM   Printer-friendly
from the let's-talk-about-it dept.

Packt reports that Gab's Dissenter browser extension was removed from Mozilla's Firefox add-ons on April 10th (people already using it can continue to do so), and was booted from Google's Chrome browser the next day. Gab pitches itself as an anti-censorship social media platform that only prohibits speech that is illegal. Their Dissenter browser extension and associated website allow people to share comments about any webpage, giving users the ability to share comments on articles, videos, etc., regardless of whether or not the website hosting the content has a comments section. Mozilla's rationale for the ban was that Dissenter was being used to promote violence, hate speech, and discrimination, but they failed to show any examples to bolster that claim. Gab plans to develop their own browser in response.


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  • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday April 13 2019, @06:48PM (30 children)

    by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Saturday April 13 2019, @06:48PM (#829031) Journal

    What was the point of this? All they're doing is giving these fucking frothy lunatics more martyrdom fuel...

    --
    I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
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  • (Score: 5, Interesting) by Gaaark on Saturday April 13 2019, @07:07PM (26 children)

    by Gaaark (41) on Saturday April 13 2019, @07:07PM (#829036) Journal

    I got off of gab because of the 'bad fringe elements' (plus I just don't GET Twitter, Facebook etc), but I DO support the idea of free speech.

    GAB is being FORCED to go 'dark web' by those that want it to GO AWAY or that want to try to monitor it.

    I say if they want to shut gab down, they should also shut down Facebook.

    --
    --- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
    • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 13 2019, @07:32PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 13 2019, @07:32PM (#829042)

      I say if they want to shut gab down, they should also shut down Facebook.

      Dear god, yes! And Facebook, with its mass surveillance, is far more of a danger than any garbage media platform full of neo-nazis could ever be.

    • (Score: 3, Interesting) by RandomFactor on Saturday April 13 2019, @07:56PM (24 children)

      by RandomFactor (3682) Subscriber Badge on Saturday April 13 2019, @07:56PM (#829062) Journal

      I would be happy if the break was Platform-vs.-NON-Platform.

      If you attempt to censor your contents other than as required by law, you become a PUBLISHER with all associated liability.
      If you are neutral and take no action other than those required by law, you are a CARRIER/PLATFORM and are not liable for what is published on the platform.

      Right now they have the exemption from liability afforded to COMMON CARRIERS without the associated constraints placed on them.

      How this happened I don't know, but it is predictably leading to abuse and oppression.

      --
      В «Правде» нет известий, в «Известиях» нет правды
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 13 2019, @08:01PM (7 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 13 2019, @08:01PM (#829065)

        I would be happy if the break was Platform-vs.-NON-Platform.

        If you attempt to censor your contents other than as required by law, you become a PUBLISHER with all associated liability.
        If you are neutral and take no action other than those required by law, you are a CARRIER/PLATFORM and are not liable for what is published on the platform.

        Right now they have the exemption from liability afforded to COMMON CARRIERS without the associated constraints placed on them.

        How this happened I don't know, but it is predictably leading to abuse and oppression.

        You're confusing *software repositories* with social media sites. I'll let you work out why that comparison is flawed yourself.

        • (Score: 1) by RandomFactor on Saturday April 13 2019, @08:19PM (6 children)

          by RandomFactor (3682) Subscriber Badge on Saturday April 13 2019, @08:19PM (#829081) Journal

          If you had argued that telecommunications wasn't social media you might have gone somewhere, as that's what I'm conflating.

          I'm not sure where you got software repositories from.

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          • (Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 13 2019, @08:24PM (5 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 13 2019, @08:24PM (#829085)

            I'm not sure where you got software repositories from.

            You're right. What was I thinking?

            It's not like this is a thread about Google/Mozilla removing a plugin from their *software repositories* or anything even resembling that, right?

            *AC rolls eyes*

            • (Score: 2, Insightful) by RandomFactor on Saturday April 13 2019, @08:31PM (4 children)

              by RandomFactor (3682) Subscriber Badge on Saturday April 13 2019, @08:31PM (#829088) Journal

              Fair enough, context matters.

              Regardless, it's not simply a repository issue. This does more than mean you have to load it elsewhere. It means you have to load it elsewhere every time you load firefox.

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              • (Score: 2) by dry on Sunday April 14 2019, @06:26AM (3 children)

                by dry (223) on Sunday April 14 2019, @06:26AM (#829278) Journal

                Hey, I'm using a fringe Firefox fork, forked from 45ESR, and I have to hunt down most all extensions and even the easy ones like no-script triggers a bunch of warnings about unsigned scripts. It's part of being on the fringe, and at one time my fringe was very vocal.

                • (Score: 1) by RandomFactor on Sunday April 14 2019, @01:58PM

                  by RandomFactor (3682) Subscriber Badge on Sunday April 14 2019, @01:58PM (#829365) Journal

                  I'm hoping they get it to work better in the near future. I really don't want to switch browsers, but firefox has been honking me off more and more.

                  --
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                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 14 2019, @11:00PM (1 child)

                  by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 14 2019, @11:00PM (#829515)

                  Yeah, Palemoon is getting its act together to making the plugin find and install process easier. Still more work to do.

                  • (Score: 2) by dry on Monday April 15 2019, @12:01AM

                    by dry (223) on Monday April 15 2019, @12:01AM (#829539) Journal

                    A lot more fringe then Palemoon.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 13 2019, @11:04PM (15 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 13 2019, @11:04PM (#829153)

        If you attempt to censor your contents other than as required by law, you become a PUBLISHER with all associated liability.

        Hmm, OK. I'll censor the fuck out of everything I don't like whether it is required by law or not. And that is what the SM sites in question are doing. Thanks for letting us know you're OK with them following your sage advice.

        • (Score: 1) by RandomFactor on Saturday April 13 2019, @11:26PM (14 children)

          by RandomFactor (3682) Subscriber Badge on Saturday April 13 2019, @11:26PM (#829159) Journal

          I think you aren't understanding what I am saying, or the effect it would have.
           
          Censoring your platform changes it from platform to publishing. This means assuming liability for anything published on the platform.
           
          This incentivizes not censoring except as required by law, strongly.
           
          The basic expectation of openness is what made these platforms grow so large. Now that they have done so, attaining near monopoly status, they are progressively changing how they do things and controlling information rather than passively retransmitting it.

          --
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          • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 14 2019, @01:04AM (13 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 14 2019, @01:04AM (#829194)

            I understood perfectly. And I'm saying what you call "censoring" is what I will do to keep my advertising dollars flooding in.

            You see, your claim that if it isn't banned by law it should be allowed anywhere and everywhere isn't practical for my capitalism to function. If my advertisers don't want their products shown next to hate speech, or videos of animals being tortured, or little girls in bikinis, etc then I need to keep them happy. So, I can prevent the content my advertisers don't want, and most of my product users don't want, from ending up on my platform or I can try to figure out a way to allow everything on the platform but keep them apart from the people that don't want to see it.

            I am not censoring your right to free speech because your right to free speech does not exist on my platform. Governments that support free speech cannot restrict your free speech, but my platform is not a government. In fact, many governments (including yours) are demanding my platform do more to restrict content.

            If you want platforms to be treated as publishers, and make platforms responsible for content, then we will limit what can be posted in order to protect our business, our advertising dollars, and our function as proxies to limit speech on behalf of governments that aren't allowed to.

            • (Score: 1) by RandomFactor on Sunday April 14 2019, @01:19AM (11 children)

              by RandomFactor (3682) Subscriber Badge on Sunday April 14 2019, @01:19AM (#829198) Journal

              If you want platforms to be treated as publishers, and make platforms responsible for content, then we will limit what can be posted in order to protect our business, our advertising dollars,

              And here is where we disagree on outcomes.
               
              Limiting the platform in this fashion so you are not losing your shirt on liability (basically in house moderation of all content) will frustrate and lose your users as well.
               
              Users will migrate to an open platform more like the social media companies of old, and the advertisers will follow because the platform is not what is important for advertising, the eyeballs are.

              --
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              • (Score: 5, Informative) by aristarchus on Sunday April 14 2019, @04:38AM (10 children)

                by aristarchus (2645) on Sunday April 14 2019, @04:38AM (#829240) Journal

                Limiting the platform in this fashion so you are not losing your shirt on liability (basically in house moderation of all content) will frustrate and lose your users as well.

                Who said anything about risk exposure? It is not liability we private organizations worry about, we are not the one's advocating violating anyone's human or legal rights. It is minimizing exposure to insanity that is our goal! That is what drives away decent people, the foaming at the mouth racism, misogyny, transphobia, and libertarianism. So it is in our interests to not allow such lunacy on our platforms. Quite simple, really. Political correctness is just another word for manners, and not being batshit crazy in public.

                • (Score: 1) by RandomFactor on Sunday April 14 2019, @04:55AM (7 children)

                  by RandomFactor (3682) Subscriber Badge on Sunday April 14 2019, @04:55AM (#829249) Journal

                  So look to PC activists for good manners?

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                  • (Score: 1, Flamebait) by aristarchus on Sunday April 14 2019, @09:40AM (6 children)

                    by aristarchus (2645) on Sunday April 14 2019, @09:40AM (#829304) Journal

                    Yes? Do you not think that those who incorrectly point out differences between races are not both rude factually incorrect? Those who point out that they are being racist are only trying to help them be more tactful and factually correct. Basically, PC Activists are trying to save cretin conservatives and alt-right types from publicly embarrassing themselves with their misguided ideology.

                    But it is like trying to show khallow the errors of his ways, when he is incapable of recognizing, let alone admitting, error.

                    "Conservatism: An ideology for those whom to think hurts them." Ogwald Spengler.

                    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 14 2019, @01:20PM (2 children)

                      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 14 2019, @01:20PM (#829358)

                      Yes? Do you not think that those who incorrectly point out differences between races are not both rude factually incorrect?

                      Nice tautology.

                      Those who point out that they are being racist are only trying to help them be more tactful and factually correct. Basically, PC Activists are trying to save cretin conservatives and alt-right types from publicly embarrassing themselves with their misguided ideology.

                      Strong positive correlations for criminality in modern civilization? Low IQ? [psychologytoday.com] If you want to challenge it, you have to challenge "affirmative action". [googleusercontent.com] What else?

                      Black males do not have elevated testosterone as previously assumed, they do have elevated estradiol levels. [nih.gov] Symptoms of elevated estrogen in males include depression [nih.gov] and poor emotional regulation. The irony of "toxic masculinity" being associated with increased levels of estrogen!

                      Discussing genetic, [springer.com] environmental [nih.gov] and nutritional [universityworldnews.com] effects on behavior is not "muh racism". We are what we eat and you need to layoff the excrement because you're full of it!

                      • (Score: 1) by RandomFactor on Sunday April 14 2019, @02:18PM

                        by RandomFactor (3682) Subscriber Badge on Sunday April 14 2019, @02:18PM (#829368) Journal

                        Yes? Do you not think that those who incorrectly point out differences between races are not both rude factually incorrect?

                        Nice tautology.

                        Indeed. I would also argue against 'rude' being related to correctness or incorrectness to any significant degree.

                        --
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                      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 15 2019, @12:13PM

                        by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 15 2019, @12:13PM (#829770)

                        I just read an article in a most prestigious journal by leading scientists, and they said white supremacist have, on average, mind you, phalli that are 3 inches shorter than normal, or approximately 6.8cm. Not sure if they measured the men, or the women, or if it would have made a difference. Racism = bad science. End of story.

                    • (Score: 1) by RandomFactor on Sunday April 14 2019, @02:20PM (2 children)

                      by RandomFactor (3682) Subscriber Badge on Sunday April 14 2019, @02:20PM (#829370) Journal

                      So look to PC activists for good manners?

                      Yes?

                      Uhh...are you asking or answering?

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                      • (Score: 1, Flamebait) by aristarchus on Monday April 15 2019, @10:47AM (1 child)

                        by aristarchus (2645) on Monday April 15 2019, @10:47AM (#829754) Journal

                        Uh huh. Are you cognitively challenged?

                        • (Score: 1) by RandomFactor on Monday April 15 2019, @10:48PM

                          by RandomFactor (3682) Subscriber Badge on Monday April 15 2019, @10:48PM (#830145) Journal

                          Depends if any of theses are cognitive impairments

                            - often stops reading when hitting obvious logical fallacies in a post.
                            - often abandons conversations with oviously invalid/unshared premises/assertions (unless addressable)
                            - rarely puts more than a passing thought into, or leaves hanging, conversations where a participant descends into incivility

                          This results in 'losing' a lot of arguments from some perspectives (or in this case accusations of cognitive deficiency). So be it.

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                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 14 2019, @10:51AM (1 child)

                  by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 14 2019, @10:51AM (#829314)

                  If you are a publisher you are liable for everything on your site, regardless of who put it there. Expect slander/libel suits to come rolling in unless you either censor heavily or have the just-a-carrier defense. That means expect anything more controversial than 'I like strawberry icecream' to be censored.

                  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 14 2019, @11:04AM

                    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 14 2019, @11:04AM (#829316)

                    I hate strawberry ice cream, and only white supremacists like strawberry ice cream! Everyone knows it has to be strawberry cheesecake ice cream. Geez, does stuff like this still need to be expained?

            • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday April 14 2019, @02:10PM

              by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Sunday April 14 2019, @02:10PM (#829367) Journal

              I think you're passing the buck here.

              "Alright, people, I'm not actually censoring anything, it's the ADVERTISERS WITH LOTS OF MONEY who demand the censorship. They have money, so it's alright to censor. Don't blame me!"

  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Phoenix666 on Saturday April 13 2019, @08:16PM (2 children)

    by Phoenix666 (552) on Saturday April 13 2019, @08:16PM (#829077) Journal

    It is a mistake. They are giving them more fuel.

    Gab has some loopy users, but they are easily muted. They can comment all they want, and other users can choose not to listen to them all they want. It's a simple but honest solution.

    I would say that Gab users are generally incensed at the censorship being enacted against them on many other platforms now. Of course they are. Anyone would be. The rest of us who do not share their views should be incensed with them, if we want to continue to claim to hallow the freedom of expression.

    In the past we have not allowed private businesses to refuse service to Jews, blacks, and the like, but now suddenly a disgraceful number of people on the Left seem to think it's OK to do that to conservatives, men, whites, and other groups they don't like. If it's despicable to do that to those former (and it is!), it must also be to do that to those latter.

    --
    Washington DC delenda est.
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 13 2019, @08:36PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 13 2019, @08:36PM (#829094)

      No, no, no! You see, it's okay when they do it. They are the High Holy Ones, whose every action is by definition right and good and just.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 14 2019, @07:05PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 14 2019, @07:05PM (#829453)

      just like forced association and "diversity promotion"(discrimination against the unpromoted groups) is not racist/sexist/discriminatory as long as you are discriminating against people you think deserve it. it's obvious on it's face but people are sooo fucking stupid.