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Velonews reports that former champion cyclist Twigg got a CS degree but wasn't too successful in that career, and is now homeless in Seattle, https://www.velonews.com/2019/04/news/now-homeless-twigg-opens-up-in-article-with-seattle-times_492734 A longer version of the story/interview appears in the Seattle Times, https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/homeless/olympic-medal-winning-cyclist-rebecca-twigg-is-homeless-in-seattle/
Rebecca Twigg has now been without a home for almost five years in Seattle, living first with friends and family, then in her car, then in homeless shelters and then, for a night, under garbage bags on the street downtown. She hasn't had a bike for years, and no one recognizes her anymore, she says.
Twigg, 56, agreed to share her story to convince the public that not all homeless people are addicted to drugs or alcohol; that there are many like her, who have struggled with employment and are "confused," as she said she is, about what to do next with their lives. She did not want to discuss mental health but feels it should be treated more seriously in Washington.
"Some of the hard days are really painful when you're training for racing," Twigg said, "but being homeless, when you have little hope or knowledge of where the finish line is going to be, is just as hard."
[...] She was spotted at 17 by famous cycling coach Eddie Borysewicz. After she won the world championship, he invited her to live in the Olympic Training Center in Colorado Springs and train for the 1984 Olympic Games, where for the first time, women would be competing on bicycles.
Americans dominated the Olympics that year. Twigg won a silver medal, missing gold by a few inches to famous racer Connie Carpenter. She continued on her way up over the next several years, setting world records, winning world titles, and racing more than 60 times a year. She became known for her competition in individual pursuit, where two cyclists start at the same time on opposite sides of the track and each tries to catch the other. She's still among the most-decorated athletes in pursuit.
But the breakneck pace couldn't continue forever. She was married and soon after divorced. She crashed in Texas, broke her thumb and got 13 stitches in her head. The following year she felt burned out. She took a break at age 26, and that year she grew an entire inch, possibly because her body no longer had to expend so much energy training.
Twigg got an associate degree in computer science and became a programmer for a seaweed-products company in San Diego.
Twigg says the career wasn't a perfect fit. She quit and started training for the 1992 Olympic Games, winning a bronze medal in the 3,000-meter pursuit after only nine months of training. As she entered her 30s, she became regarded as the best American female cyclist.
The article has more details, she tried other IT jobs, but (not surprisingly to me) it sounds like her heart wasn't really in it.
If you were in her spot, what would you do for a second act, after such stunning early success in international sports? Some former athletes become motivational speakers or coaches, but she may not be the "self promoter" type, relying on her skill/strength for her success instead of team politics.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 17 2019, @11:44AM (44 children)
She travelled so much she didn't have a support buffer, she made it through her good years and tried out different plans, but didn't find another less athletic career she could segue into. Speaking of other people I know both men and women, this happens more often than people like to publicly admit. The only difference in many cases between a smug success and a humble person in the sticks is the luck of the draw relative to their careers. If that factory shuts down, or that management position gets made redundant, how many people really CAN jump to another field of work, or go from management back to line work and climb back up to management again? And if you don't climb up to management, what chances do you have to retire if you get a mid-life hurdle that takes away your hard fought savings?
Take a minute to really truly imagine life from another persons shoes, for those of you who have had it rough, imagine not having had it rough at all and how it would affect your expectations for everyone else. And for those of you who have had it easy, think of all the places your life could have gone horribly wrong, and where you would be if you hadn't had a helping hand, another job opportunity, or a different passion to fall back on. There is a reason for that saying 'Don't judge a (wo)man until you've walked a mile in their (heels/)shoes.'
(Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday April 17 2019, @12:51PM (25 children)
And what's the answer you're looking for? Create some clueless and unfeeling bureaucracy to administer the feelgoods that need be administered?
And yet there are huge numbers of people who figure this out every year. I get that there's mentally ill people out there. But I also get that there's little we can do for them at present aside from making their environment better, and providing some help and medication of varying value. Sure, I agree that there's better support society should be providing - it's not a solution but is better than present.
At the same time, what really is the point of this article? I see it as just an emotional ritual, common to the reading of news. People want to read emotional stories. But some of the resulting narratives, such as the above of futility in one's life, aren't productive.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by All Your Lawn Are Belong To Us on Wednesday April 17 2019, @01:58PM (2 children)
It's an emotional story, yes. I'd say there are multiple points to it. They include:
* Just because one is capable of reaching pinnacles of success in a field does not mean one will be successful in life. Or that one cannot still harbor issues that can bring one down. We might know that because MDC was here (or have learned it elsewhere), but that doesn't mean everybody does. And it might be good to be reminded of that anyway.
* Homeless people are people and can have daughters and families and yet be homeless. You might know that, but that doesn't mean everybody believes that in a practical sense. It's not an uncommon pattern that the homeless have relatives, or churches, or other structures that can no longer provide support because reasons.
* There is quite a bit that can be done for (or perhaps better, with) persons with mental disabilities or pathologies. Yet most such problems take cooperation of the person to recognize what is wrong and want to do something about it. Even without cures services can still be provided.
* Attention should be called to the places that are involved with homeless care. So that when we choose not to spend money on them, or choose to cut away budgets to make the rich richer, we have a better idea of who is truly injured by such choices.
* When one's pride is taken away (or given up) how does one move on from there. (And making such choices can lead to identity confusion). What should one do when pride may not be something one can't (or shouldn't) afford given one's challenges in Maslow's hierarchy?
* Just because one is successful does not mean that one is grounded - it sounds like she spent a long time with many residences and attempts to have a life, but no real home or an understanding of what makes up basic survival and security. But I'd guess you're being so fundamentally grounded may slip by that there are others who might have reasons they are not (or cannot be?)
As to futility.... Perhaps the overwhelming element of this narrative is to silently ask what is and is not futile. What might you do differently about the Rebecca Twiggs in your community, because they likely exist.
This sig for rent.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by khallow on Wednesday April 17 2019, @02:35PM (1 child)
It's not very silent an asking.
My take here is stories don't tell us much. Current homelessness is somewhere [endhomelessness.org] around 500-600k homeless in the US out of 330 million people. One could have five orders of magnitude less homelessness or three orders of magnitude more, and still have dozens of sad stories.
What I can say from the above data is that it's a small fraction. Even with the problems these people currently face, the US isn't doing badly with rates a little above 1 in 1000 people. Perhaps we should also reflect on what we're doing right?
(Score: 2) by All Your Lawn Are Belong To Us on Wednesday April 17 2019, @03:58PM
Yes, we should reflect on what we're doing right. And in the subtext of the story, for example, are things like day shelters as well as night ones. It's in the background since the focus of the article is about a person and not the system, but it's there.
Is this isolated story representative? Is it objective truth about what homelessness is? I wouldn't say so - life is way more weird than any packaged narrative can relate. One could also contrast this story with that of Liz Murray [theguardian.com], and that our country can produce stories like those too. It's not all doom and gloom even if there is still work to do.
This sig for rent.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by sjames on Wednesday April 17 2019, @06:54PM (21 children)
I didn't even have to finish reading the summary to know you'd be along to blow bloody diarrhea all over her any anyone who even attempts to use a bit of empathy. It's your true 'talent'.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday April 17 2019, @07:09PM (20 children)
Reason can be quite predictable. And what was the point of the empathy? To spin a cute story of woe. I liked Lawn's reply because he put thought into it, not just feigned empathy.
(Score: 2) by sjames on Wednesday April 17 2019, @07:26PM
So can a diarrhea geyser.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Azuma Hazuki on Wednesday April 17 2019, @09:06PM (18 children)
Reason, Mr. Hallow, dictates that we adopt a housing-first approach to those of the homeless population who have no comorbid drug or alcohol abuse issues or serious mental health problems. Just look at Salt Lake City.
It costs less--there's the economic argument, the reason, the one with no empathy at all involved so a soulless husk like you can digest it!--to do it this way than to allow the current system to continue. Start treating homelessness as what it is, a public health crisis, and do as much preventive medicine as possible. That is how you help the most people and keep the costs down.
You don't want this. Because deep down, you aren't about "reason." You just hate the idea of someone getting "free shit." I can only hope you end up homeless, and soon. Maybe you'll learn through suffering what you refuse to learn through the reason you pretend to hold so dear.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 17 2019, @11:09PM (2 children)
Always blows me away when you go the economic incentive route and they STILL fight back. How can anyone be so clueless about their own motivations that when you knock out the leg of "reason" they are standing on they somehow don't fall down? Then they sit there hovering over the ground thinking everything is normal.
We're just beating 'round the bush of bigotry and hate, it does seem to be that simple.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Wednesday April 17 2019, @11:20PM
The worst part is, they will look you right in the eye and deny it. Do it right in front of you and deny it when called on it. These people would lie to Christ on the cross. They think we're worse than stupid; they think we're subhuman and therefore perfectly okay to lie to.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday April 18 2019, @01:36AM
Only if you get the sign right. So many such "incentives" aren't. I'll look at the grandparent and see if it really is an economic incentive.
It helps to reason when you talk about "reason". But I'm used to people talking about reason without actually doing so, and then projecting that failure on me.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday April 18 2019, @01:38AM (14 children)
Ok. How many people is that? At these low levels of homelessness IMHO, you're speaking of people between homes and people with a lot of those comorbid factors.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Thursday April 18 2019, @03:11AM (13 children)
Based on a rough sample size of about n=50, and with the understanding that it's biased toward the urban population here in Madison, I'd say at least 70% would be helped immediately and finally by a housing first initiative. That number may be higher or lower elsewhere. What is for certain is that the longer people stay homeless, with the world cutting them out of society and treating them as somewhere between invisible and vermin to be exterminated, the lower that number will go.
And it sounds tome like you want that to happen, like you want it to be a self-fulfilling prophecy, so you can say there was no sense in helping to begin with. Again: I wish long-term homelessness upon you in as swift a manner as possible, so that you learn.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday April 18 2019, @06:14AM (12 children)
There are two counterpoints to that. First, you have a habit of saying falsehoods though not intentionally, I think. Just because you say this, doesn't mean it's close to reality. But let's ignore that Azuma filter.
Second, I find it interesting that by US measures of homelessness, only a quarter [endhomelessness.org] of the homeless qualify as what is called "chronically homeless". That is, homeless for a total duration of a year or more over a period of three years. That is, the people who are apparently not amenable to a housing first initiative by your estimate are similar in fraction to this group which has serious problems with homelessness.
Thus, even if we assume that 70% of the homeless can benefit from free/cheap housing provided by someone, we have the situation that about the same number of homeless find housing anyway (else there would be more chronically homeless in the first place). Looks to me like I was correct on the assertion that it's people between homes and people with those comorbid factors. I grant there may well be significant economic benefit to housing first - which apparently is implemented in Canada and a number of US cities, but I'd like to see some numbers - particularly how much faster people get off the street and find jobs than when they're not on housing first. Perhaps you can supply that?
Still it strikes me that the people most likely to be successful after housing first, would be successful anyway. That's the placebo effect, but with someone else's money.
I'm used to zealots exaggerating problems and their desired solutions. So no skin off my teeth. In response, I don't wish long-term involuntary homelessness on you because it's suffering and wouldn't make you a better person.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Thursday April 18 2019, @10:30PM (11 children)
You will say and do anything to defend that worldview, I get it.
Again: not doin' this for you, pal. You made your decision and it's going to cost you a good long time writhing in Hellfire. This is for everyone who has to deal with your shit. Think of it as a sort of airborne vaccination program. This may be the one case where vaccines *do* cause autism flareups (yours).
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 0, Troll) by khallow on Saturday April 20 2019, @12:09PM (10 children)
And you'll keep projecting, I get that.
What I find interesting is that the only time you've attempted any sort of rational argument with me in the past few weeks, you a) don't follow through with any sort of support for your argument other than a personal observation which could be very wrong due to your past issues with delusion, b) immediately abandon the approach, indicating you weren't serious, and then c) brag about how you tried and it didn't work.
The obvious rebuttal here is that if you're going to use an economics argument, then show this housing first approach actually works in the way you claim it works. It looks to me like even in the absence of such an approach, more than half of the homeless population on their own gets housing of some kind which is very close to the potential success rate from your observations of your local population of homeless. In other words, does it do something or is it a placebo? Supporting programs that don't work can generate more homelessness (through redirection of resources via taxes and such).
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday April 20 2019, @12:29PM (9 children)
I already told you: Salt Lake City.
And, again, why do I (and all other properly functioning human beings) have to debase myself down to "here's a purely mathematical, monetary argument for why this works" anyway? You're a failure, a skinwalking reject that just looks like it has a human shape, something that feeds on the suffering of others. You have no place in this discussion. If you don't see why caring about other human beings has a benefit beyond simply cash in hand (or cash in ledger, whatever) then you don't belong anywhere near any discussion, and God forbid any policymaking, on the subject.
tl;dr: go away, we're done with you pissing in the gene pool.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday April 20 2019, @12:33PM (8 children)
I hear it's a city. What about them?
Because otherwise there's no point listening to you? You have a history of saying whatever to validate your worldview. That good enough?
This is an example of how you just say shit. I care about human beings, but I recognize the existence of cost. For example, helping a human being by hurting two more isn't a good tradeoff for me. How about you?
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday April 20 2019, @12:41PM (7 children)
You're full of shit, and worse, you gussy it up by pretending to be reasonable, moral, and concerned with cost. We can all see this.
I only keep this up in order to get you to keep exposing yourself, so people can see you degenerate to exactly this sort of post: stripped down to bare willful ignorance, hypocrisy, and outright bullshitting. Whatever the opposite of "virtue signalling" is, you're doing it, and you actually think it's signalling virtue.
Keep it up, Hallow. Your corrosive inhumanity can't touch me, and the more you display it and double down on it, the more it becomes obvious to anyone watching what kind of walking septic tank you are. Keep it up.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday April 20 2019, @12:49PM (6 children)
Why are you telling the rest of us this? I wonder if there's anyone who actually believes you any more?
Your natural level, of course.
On the earlier topic, I googled around and the housing first thing seems to be a Canadian policy. They claimed all kinds of nice things for the policy, but I couldn't find independent evaluation of the policy. As I've noted before, a first step to policy advocacy should be showing that it's better than not doing anything. So is that true here? Is housing first better than not doing anything?
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Sunday April 21 2019, @12:02AM (5 children)
I'm pretty sure "the rest of us" know this and are on board :) You don't have anywhere as many supporters or friends as you think you do, and part of the reason why is your utter lack of common humanity. Most people can sense this and steer clear, because we know, if only subconsciously, that people like you are poison to a functioning society.
The data are out there. Look them up. I am not going to do your homework for you, and you have no one to blame but yourself for refusing to. And "the rest of us," of course, will see that you don't, which further erodes your credibility.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 0, Flamebait) by khallow on Sunday April 21 2019, @02:56AM (4 children)
In other words, you don't know that it's any better. You merely assume so.
Uh huh. You're not the rest of the internet.
Too bad. It's your opinion.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Sunday April 21 2019, @03:52AM (3 children)
Facts are not opinions. Educate yourself. The data is out there; you refuse to assimilate it because it breaks your worldview over its knee like the flimsy piece of kindling it is. You did exactly what I predicted you to do, almost down to the word, and it's not helping your case any, despite what you may think.
Buddy, I don't *need* to be "the rest of the internet." You will find people who agree with you online, sure, but it's *where* you find them that's most telling. Let's just say between the two of us, I am not the one who will find her fellow travelers on Gab or Stormfront. You will, because your kind of economic "thinking" is popular with that crowd for reasons which ought to be fairly obvious.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday April 21 2019, @05:36PM (2 children)
There's way too much of this bullshit on the internet where people assert stuff and then tell me to back it up for them. Sorry, it's your job to sell your fucking arguments with those alleged facts. Just do your job.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Sunday April 21 2019, @06:05PM (1 child)
The very first search result from DDG is this story from 2015 from NPR: https://www.npr.org/2015/12/10/459100751/utah-reduced-chronic-homelessness-by-91-percent-heres-how [npr.org]
Of course, some more recent articles attempt to dispute this, but they all follow a similar track: conflating the "chronically homeless," who are the hard cases mentioned before, with all homeless people. The media itself seems to want to make the very poorest of us suffer; it's the main reason I trust virtually nothing they say when it comes to money. Pareto ratios pop up all over nature; any program that wants to make real headway here has to factor that in to begin with.
How goddamned lazy can you be? I know, I know, as lazy as it takes not to ever have to change your views or accept new facts. Your mind is petrified, and you like it that way. You think it's a brain boner. If beliefs remain ossified for upwards of 4 years, see a psychiatrist.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 22 2019, @08:23PM
He's almost as lazy as someone who said most homeless people aren't mentally ill.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 17 2019, @03:01PM (13 children)
This is going to sound cold so let me preface this by saying I was homeless during college. I lived in a tent in the woods when the government changed the structure of my funding to no longer cover a gap with no classes in the summer. My lease was up and so I decided to do a little camping and spend the summer studying quietly. It was fine but interacting closely with the homeless left me with less sympathy and not more. The worst part of being homeless was other homeless people.
Most of them didn't accept help if it wasn't material. They begged constantly, to me, to their other friends, to anyone. They would constantly complain about nice shit they were getting for free. Many of them I sat down and showed them step by step how to get in front of money from the government to go to school or find work to get them on their feet. Not a single one followed up. They were just nodding their heads hoping I'd follow up with 5 bucks for their time.
I used to regularly watch them exchange tips about what stories were saddest. I saw them trading cardboard signs at least a half dozen people used one that said "My baby needs formula". They'd joke about how stupid the people were who gave them money. One girl borrowed her friend's turtles to go spange. Sitting on the sidewalk showing people the pets you can't feed to get money.. Like I'm supposed to believe you're homeless with pet turtles?
Anyhow whatever she did the turtles died after she brought them back.
She's declined to talk about her mental state and she has family in the city who aren't giving her a place to stay. With the homeless this is a big tell. If someone is homeless you have to wonder why her daughter isn't letting her sleep on the couch if she shows up to the foodbank and gets a bag of free groceries.
In my case I didn't trust my mom like that she's a sweet lady but was a shit parent and I'd honestly rather sleep on the ground than deal with her candy coated horseshit. But I could have if I was 5 years homeless or something.
I work in IT in seattle and there is a 50 year old guy who changed careers after breaking his back. Ageism exists but he's doing just fine, he's within arms reach of getting promoted into one of the better dev teams. He could have a promotion just about any time he feels like. I actually read the article to see if I could get her a job but reading between the lines she'd get fired without working on her mental health first.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 17 2019, @06:21PM (3 children)
Got it. You weren't homeless. You were camping, with a predefined future in front of you. In other words, a tourist. Your situation didn't extend to them but you were very ready to show them how, huh?
Your family situation doesn't transfer to hers, either. Homeless people often do have relatives who will not help them for their own reasons, be it drug usage on the homeless person's part or just worn out because any such offer is temporary even if you're family. Or because they are sponging off society - I know as you state such people do exist. But they aren't the majority, sorry.
You might have pegged it - she needs counseling assistance and will not comment on it. (Which doesn't mean she isn't getting any assistance, either, but whatever - jump to that conclusion if you like). The bottom line of the article seems to be that while she isn't willing to admit she's bottoming out yet, she also feels like there's no transition from shelters to upward levels. I don't think that is true, but typically such assistance is pegged to cooperating with treatment regimens etc. And if whatever your state is has you not cooperating then there isn't much help as far as I know. So her point is that there should be more unconditional housing. Don't know if I agree with that or not but at any rate, this has nothing to do with you.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday April 17 2019, @07:13PM
It still counts.
(Score: 2) by Bot on Thursday April 18 2019, @03:12PM
>Got it. You weren't homeless.
Even I can detect a no true scotsman here.
Account abandoned.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 18 2019, @07:09PM
Yeah I made friends and I would tell them you need to set goals. You can do this and this and this and you'll have an apartment in 3 months, you'll have a career in two years.
I knew you were going to go there but have you actually sat down with a homeless person and navigated their unending lists of "I can't do this because of"... addressing each barrier and then watch them do what they always did before. Stuff like pretending to shake and convulse in front of tourists while they beg for money. Pretending to be going blind. Holding signs that your baby is starving (no baby)
Don't listen to what they say they need. They'll lie and if they were so full of good ideas they'd be solving their own problems. They need to be separated from the greater homeless community and given a plan. When I got back on my feet I helped two friends I had made get onto their own feet. I let them be my roommates after they pulled it together.
Literally nobody listened to me without some personal carrot being dangled so the promise of a lease and a house made these people follow my plan. Everyone else.. fuck that what do I know? I'm just a guy who can compel the government to just hand over enough money to pay my bills for years without work so I mean.. Like who the fuck am I to listen to?
It was about a month of living there before they were back to doing drugs. They'd both got fired shortly after for what I totally recognized to be a manic episode from smoking meth, they cycled through jobs like this over and over, I've honestly never seen someone get so many jobs. They lied about it and would have massive arguments. I couldn't do shit because if I would start talking about ending the lease and going our separate ways the girl would start crying and shouting and the next door neighbor thought I was beating the shit out of her and she'd call the cops. She was the worst one because she had somehow figured out how to exploit our natural desire to protect the weak, she'd go from public menace to helpless waif as fast as you could dial 911. Oh and I was on probation. Why? Because a guy was smoking weed in line a the food bank like an idiot and I got a ticket for having weed in my pocket and standing next to him. I'd lose my pell grant and we'd all get evicted if the cops showed up. These are people who would actively use my desire not to get sucked into their degenerate shit as an ultimatum to keep playing ball.
Our other neighbor said she was telling him I was her boyfriend and we were thinking about getting married. She told me some personal social details about the neighbor who was calling the cops so I'm sure she had built up a narrative. I was completely trapped.
Oh yeah so you think "well they need psychological services" they got them, I told them to go, they came back with scripts for xanax and ambien. They encouraged me to try and get some too. They said "oh yeah don't tell her about this problem, this problem or this problem, tell her you can't sleep and this and that" ... like how the fuck are you supposed to get better when your every word is a lie.
When a relative was dying of cancer she stole money from me and when I came back home the house had obviously been jam packed with random street trash. The weeds had taken over the lawn and the landlord was threatening to come over so if he did I'd have gotten evicted. At some point there was a girl on girl kitchen knife fight.
They might believe the excuses when they're saying them but they will give them a thousand subtle little nudges back to their shit lives.
I've done my best to cut all these people out of my life but every time they get clean they feel bad enough to leave apologies on social networks and things and of course I watch them cycle back shortly after. I usually remove myself from anywhere they have managed to find me on the internet.
So go ahead go be a hero I dare you. Move one of these fuckers in your house. Or give them your phone number and tell them you're there anytime.
I was a tourist because I had a plan to get through my homelessness. These people are already on plan B C D E. Where a normal person would have an emergency contingency plan for being broke these people will figure that they can go ahead and buy another rock because they think they have an idea about what to do if they spend their whole paycheck.
I wouldn't have been a tourist if I started doing drugs and shit. I saw one guy who was a firefighter and him and his wife were evicted because of something his dog did. 2 weeks later failed drug test, a month later his wife left him, he didn't bother following up on the dog he let himself get evicted over and it was put to sleep, he was homeless until I moved away.
The homeless community gets no say in what they need. It sounds nice but they don't know.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Azuma Hazuki on Wednesday April 17 2019, @07:32PM (8 children)
You need to take each person on an individual basis.
Shit like this is why I cringe when I hear things like "the homeless" or even worse, "the homeless problem." Do you see why? Hint: try substituting "Jews" for "homeless" or "blacks" (well, or the word this kind of person uses instead of "black folks") for "homeless."
I know, it's hard not to automatically judge when you have a bunch of consistently bad experiences with a given group. It's easier to generalize. Especially if that puts some convenient moral distance (*or so you think!*) between you and "them." But individuals are individuals, and it's as wrong to judge one homeless person by what you've seem from others as it is to judge one black man from what you've seem from other black men, and for almost the same reasons.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by Bot on Thursday April 18 2019, @08:50PM (7 children)
> You need to take each person on an individual basis.
I agree, I mean, right here on SN, you read generalizations like "My fondest wish is for all the haters who have never eaten out of a garbage can, slept in a train station, or begged for help from police and been laughed at and told they deserve to die to suffer these things personally". And given the broad definition of haters it is aimed at some MILLION people.
Good trolls are quick and direct, not sparse and convoluted.
Account abandoned.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Thursday April 18 2019, @10:32PM (6 children)
Category error. Every individual needs to learn compassion in their own way; my wish is for those individuals who will only learn it through suffering to suffer in the ways necessary for them to learn it. As individuals.
Nice try, Bot. I warned you about that latest Windows update but nooooo, you just HAD to go install it anyway. Hold still and let me do some percussive maintenance. This is gonna hurt you a hell of a lot more than it's gonna hurt me, but, well, see above about people who only learn through suffering...
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 1, Troll) by Bot on Friday April 19 2019, @04:15AM (5 children)
Hitler wasn't racist, he carefully considered each individual and gassed only those found to be jews.
Your criterion to determine those worthy of suffering the an eye for an eye treatment was one dimensional, objection rejected. Sorry.
Account abandoned.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday April 20 2019, @12:45PM (4 children)
My God, are you running WinME or something? That's a Godwin in the truest sense of the term, and it's also false: Jews made up about 6.5 million of the 13+ million killed in the Holocaust, and Hitler's criteria mostly boiled down to "zis person iz part of group vhich iz bad for zer Reich."
And you don't get to bitch about one-dimensional criteria to determine who deserves to suffer when you worship a God whose main criterion is "believe in me or suffer for eternity," you fucking hypocrite. Your God also said something about attending to the beam in your own eye before you pull the dust out of your neighbor's; I strongly suggest you heed that advice.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday April 20 2019, @12:54PM
(Score: 2) by Bot on Saturday April 20 2019, @04:39PM (2 children)
> it's godwin
on purpose
> and false
irrelevant for the discussion, just like the rest of your rebuttal attempt.
> when you worship a God whose main criterion is "believe in me or suffer for eternity,"
strange way of saying I tend to recognize as God the guy who voluntarily sacrificed himself for whoever he chooses to take with him. The puerile view of a vindicator god, which btw was intent on vindicating and protecting his chosen ones other than himself, needs to take into account luke 23:34 and matthew 18. Another problem is that as supreme judge God is also defined as just. Why should one have issues with a judgement from a perfect being? You don't even know how will you fare, see matt 21:28. Preventive criticism in this context is nonsense. Sadly your position is reflected very often. I could care less what people think but these ideas always rustle my condensers.
Account abandoned.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Sunday April 21 2019, @12:10AM (1 child)
*siiiiigh*
You have such deep, fundamental problems with your worldview that I'm not sure it's possible to fix you :/ Giving you a taste of some good old Christian justice and burning you alive for your beliefs might actually be the most merciful thing to do here. Thankfully for you, secular power overrides religion, and I'd find myself in jail or the gas chamber should I do such a thing.
Your key issue is "defined as." Who does the defining? How does the definer know this definition is correct? What sort of epistemological error checking is in place to prevent, for example, the same sort of self-serving bullshitting by which North Korea "defines" itself as "Democratic Peoples' Republic of North Korea?"
Really, though, when your response to a rebuttal is "it doesn't matter if what I said was actually false," you're not actually speaking of reality or real things any longer.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by Bot on Sunday April 21 2019, @10:46AM
> Who does the defining? How does the definer know this definition is correct?
You don't. Religion is a series of assertions in the domain where the assertions can't be proven. You either have faith in some, and behave accordingly, or you don't. I am not instructed not required to CONVINCE others of this, but only to present them and live them myself. Other religions may vary.
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(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 17 2019, @03:03PM (2 children)
She should have "learned to code".
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 17 2019, @03:49PM
She needs to get into counseling so she doesn't have some sort of meltdown at work. I work in seattle and if I was having a bad mental health day I could call in now and do my meetings remotely in between naps. I have several competent co-workers dealing with stuff and they do this on the regular and nobody cares. There is even a quiet room.
A big part of homeless mentality is being lost with no direction. She could have a plan to get counseling that may improve her mental health enough to get closer to her family. Once she can pull that off she can go get a job where they treat her with kid gloves. 3rd shift support would be great for her. No other people, just escalate problems and everyone is happy they're not the one there at night.
It's hard to see the way through the maze when you're in it and a little crazy.
(Score: 2) by Bot on Thursday April 18 2019, @03:13PM
I can learn to cycle, but unless I have a pretty good battery I am not going to do very well.
Account abandoned.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 17 2019, @06:41PM
she probably has integrity. we can't all be suited whores like most business douches.