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posted by janrinok on Wednesday April 17 2019, @12:17PM   Printer-friendly
from the even-SN-is-vulnerable dept.

From the insides of Business Insider

As a huge fire took hold of Paris' Notre-Dame Cathedral on Monday evening, alt-right figures were in no time spreading rumours and disinformation on social media linking the blaze to Muslims and hinting at a sinister cover up.

French officials on Monday night were quick to say that arson was unlikely to be the cause of the blaze as it engulfed the roof of the 12th century cathedral, but far-right activists and propagandists were already all over social media channels pushing conspiracies.

Conspiracy theorist Jack Posobiec compared the blaze to 9/11, despite no link having made to terrorism by French officials, while alt-right activist Faith Goldy falsely claimed that three days previously "a Muslim jihadis [sic] in Paris was arrested for planning a terrorist attack at Notre-Dame Cathedral.

Funny, there was this little AC scurrying about here on SN yesterday, saying things like this.

...but well countered here, also by an AC:

See Also:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/apr/16/notre-dame-fire-investigators-seek-cause-of-cathedral-blaze-paris

Police have begun questioning workers who were carrying out renovations at the cathedral. The Paris prosecutor's office has opened an inquiry into "involuntary destruction by fire", indicating they believe the cause of the blaze was accidental rather than criminal.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/0/notre-dame-fire-cause-everything-know-cathedral-paris/

The Paris prosecutor's office said it was treating the fire as an accident, ruling out arson and possible terror-related motives, at least for now.


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  • (Score: 2) by slinches on Wednesday April 17 2019, @09:18PM (13 children)

    by slinches (5049) on Wednesday April 17 2019, @09:18PM (#831313)

    The US never declared war against "the Nazis" either. We did declare war against Germany after they declared against us, but it didn't mention Nazis at all. So, unless you were specifically saying it was acceptable to target violence only at Nazi German nationals who are in support of the 1940s regime, then your point about war declarations is moot.

    That same logic would justify shooting any Mexican nationals who cross the border illegally as defending the US against invasion since the Mexican-American war happened.

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  • (Score: 2) by aristarchus on Wednesday April 17 2019, @09:54PM (12 children)

    by aristarchus (2645) on Wednesday April 17 2019, @09:54PM (#831339) Journal

    Your ignorance of the laws of armed conflict and recent world history is disturbing. The Nazis were the German state, and that state was dissolved at the end of the war, without a treaty of surrender by that government. New governments were created, under the guidance of the Allies in Western and Eastern Germany. As for non-Nazi party Germans, if you do not overthrow your government, and fight in its war, you are just as much an enemy combatant as anyone else. (Oh, it is never acceptable to target non-combatants, no matter what their political allegiences, with the possible exception of some propogandists and Sean Hannity.)

    As for the Mexican-American War, despite the American atrocities of the shelling of Veracruz and the massacre of the Niños Héroes at the historic Battle of Chapultepec [wikipedia.org], on February 2, 1848, The Treaty of Guadeloupe Hidalgo was signed, so there is no state of war between the United States and Mexico, and if you are so suggesting, you must be a Nazi.

    • (Score: 4, Insightful) by slinches on Wednesday April 17 2019, @10:13PM (11 children)

      by slinches (5049) on Wednesday April 17 2019, @10:13PM (#831353)

      Your command of logic is disturbing. It doesn't matter whether or not there are open declarations of war against Nazis. Your political enemies (Trump, the "alt-right", republicans, conservatives, etc.) are not Nazis just because you like to call them that.

      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by aristarchus on Wednesday April 17 2019, @11:41PM (10 children)

        by aristarchus (2645) on Wednesday April 17 2019, @11:41PM (#831398) Journal

        No, they are Nazis because of the policies they promote, especially the racial supremacy bit. And you seem to not want to understand my point. Must I explain it again, using smaller words?

        • (Score: 3, Insightful) by slinches on Thursday April 18 2019, @12:11AM (7 children)

          by slinches (5049) on Thursday April 18 2019, @12:11AM (#831418)

          I get your argument. You believe that anyone who disagrees with you is evil and violence against evil is justified.

          My argument is that your argument is terrible. It leaves no room for those who share similar values to reach a different conclusion on policy. That attitude is precisely what divides people rather than allowing them to find common ground and work toward a mutually acceptable solution.

          • (Score: 3, Insightful) by aristarchus on Thursday April 18 2019, @12:31AM (6 children)

            by aristarchus (2645) on Thursday April 18 2019, @12:31AM (#831431) Journal

            You mistake the problem with the Nazis and the alt-right: I do not call them evil because I "disagree" with them, I disagree with them because they are evil. Common ground with Nazis? Are you trying to normalize evil? "All that is necessary for evil to triumph in the world is for good men to abstain from punching Nazis in the face." Another thing Edmund Burke never said.

            • (Score: 2) by slinches on Thursday April 18 2019, @02:05AM (5 children)

              by slinches (5049) on Thursday April 18 2019, @02:05AM (#831462)

              Precisely. With you there's no gray area. Theres only those who agree with you and those who are evil Nazis. You don't seem to make any distinction between the extreme fringes and the bulk of those who just have opinions based in a more conservative political philosophy.

              • (Score: 2) by aristarchus on Thursday April 18 2019, @08:51AM (4 children)

                by aristarchus (2645) on Thursday April 18 2019, @08:51AM (#831555) Journal

                and the bulk of those who just have opinions based in a more conservative political philosophy

                Do you mean, actual Nazis? I, for one, am not in the least fooled by Richard Spencer's claim to just be a "white separatist", any more than I was ever convinced by Grand Gizard David Duke idea about a "European-American Unity and Rights Organization". Yep, white supremacists, who are just wrong on the facts, self-delusional, and racist. No, these people are wrong, evil, and wrongly evil. I think this has nothing to do with who I do or do not agree with; it has to do with who humanity disagrees with. Nazi doctrine was proven wrong, as in facually incorrect, during the 1936 Olympic Games in Berlin, where American Jesse Owens beat their Teutonic asses. And the vast superiority of the "superior race" was more or less demolished when they were decisively and unequivocally defeated by Slavs and Mixed-race Mongrel Americans. If conservatives align themselves with Nazi racist ideology, they are no longer American Conservatives, they are the Enemy of the American People, to turn around a Trumpian phrase. Punches it the face are the least of their worries.

                • (Score: 2) by slinches on Thursday April 18 2019, @06:36PM (3 children)

                  by slinches (5049) on Thursday April 18 2019, @06:36PM (#831795)

                  The problem isn't calling actual racists, racists and treating them as such. It's that you're equating Trump and mainstream republicans with those racists as a political tool to discredit them.

                  The worst part is that you seem to actually believe in the straw-man villain versions of these people that you and those in your filter bubble have created.

                  • (Score: 2) by aristarchus on Thursday April 18 2019, @07:05PM (2 children)

                    by aristarchus (2645) on Thursday April 18 2019, @07:05PM (#831817) Journal

                    Trump and mainstream republicans

                    So, slinches, if that is your real name, in an act of desperation you turn to humor? Ha! Good one, But as Marx said in "A Night at the Opera": "there ain't no Sanity Clause". Mainstream Republicans! Ha! And you accuse me of creating strawmen? Who are these "mainstream Republicans" to whom you refer? And you are not seriously suggesting that Trump is not a racist, are you? He and his father are convicted racists! [wikipedia.org]

                    So stop pretending, slinches! Be a Mensch and do not argue like a khallow, in bad faith.

                    • (Score: 2) by slinches on Thursday April 18 2019, @07:36PM (1 child)

                      by slinches (5049) on Thursday April 18 2019, @07:36PM (#831826)

                      I'm not saying Trump is a saint. He is an asshole who has made some stupid comments about race. At worst he's somewhat bigoted, but not racist in the same way as the KKK or Nazis who outright push for genocide and violence against others.

                      • (Score: 2) by aristarchus on Friday April 19 2019, @09:20PM

                        by aristarchus (2645) on Friday April 19 2019, @09:20PM (#832300) Journal

                        Funny, did I not see this exact statement in some "manifesto" recently? Hmmm.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 18 2019, @03:09PM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 18 2019, @03:09PM (#831669)

          For clarification because Aristarchus is insane, he has previously indicated that people who support small-businesses are Nazis. So his definition is skewed.

          • (Score: 2) by aristarchus on Thursday April 18 2019, @06:33PM

            by aristarchus (2645) on Thursday April 18 2019, @06:33PM (#831793) Journal

            I said "pro-business", which is not the same thing as supporting small business, and quite possibly the opposite of it. Now about this ethnically pure homeland, with the blood and soil on a long-term lease. . .