Stories
Slash Boxes
Comments

SoylentNews is people

SoylentNews is powered by your submissions, so send in your scoop. Only 15 submissions in the queue.
posted by martyb on Thursday April 18 2019, @10:33AM   Printer-friendly
from the argument-for-the-sake-of-argument dept.

To Swedish blogger John Nerst, online flame wars reveal a fundamental shift in how people debate public issues. Nerst and a nascent movement of other commentators online believe that the dynamics of today's debates—especially the misunderstandings and bad-faith arguments that lead to the online flame wars—deserve to be studied on their own terms. "More and less sophisticated arguments and argumenters are mixed and with plenty of idea exchange between them," Nerst explained in an email. "Add anonymity, and knowing people's intentions becomes harder, knowing what they mean becomes harder." Treating other people's views with charity becomes harder, too, he said.

Inspired by this rapid disruption to the way disagreement used to work, Nerst, who describes himself as a "thirty-something sociotechnical systems engineer with math, philosophy, history, computer science, economics, law, psychology, geography and social science under a shapeless academic belt," first laid out what he calls "erisology," or the study of disagreement itself. Here's how he defines it:

Erisology is the study of disagreement, specifically the study of unsuccessful disagreement. An unsuccessful disagreement is an exchange where people are no closer in understanding at the end than they were at the beginning, meaning the exchange has been mostly about talking past each other and/or hurling insults. A really unsuccessful one is where people actually push each other apart, and this seems disturbingly common.

[...] political scientists who study disagreement, unsurprisingly, disagree. Though Nerst has claimed that "no one needs to be convinced" of the needlessly adversarial quality of online discourse, Syracuse University political scientist Emily Thorson isn't buying it. "I actually do need to be convinced about this," she said in an email, "or at least about the larger implication that 'uncivil online discourse' is a problem so critical that we need to invent a new discipline to solve it. I'd argue that much of the dysfunction we see in online interactions is just a symptom of much larger and older social problems, including but not limited to racism and misogyny.

So, old political scientists think they've already identified the root cause of "bad behavior" and that online argument isn't a significant factor, or at least that's the argument they put forth in their e-mail vs the younger blogger... Dismissive, much ;-)


Original Submission

 
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.
Display Options Threshold/Breakthrough Mark All as Read Mark All as Unread
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
  • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Thursday April 18 2019, @01:05PM (1 child)

    by JoeMerchant (3937) on Thursday April 18 2019, @01:05PM (#831600)

    The one thing the article illuminated for me was the prevalence of people "talking past each other" online, and of course in the real world too, but it's so much easier to do online. Sure, I knew it happened and often identified it when it did, but I never really thought about how often it happens, everywhere.

    --
    🌻🌻 [google.com]
    Starting Score:    1  point
    Karma-Bonus Modifier   +1  

    Total Score:   2  
  • (Score: 2) by NotSanguine on Thursday April 18 2019, @01:19PM

    The one thing the article illuminated for me was the prevalence of people "talking past each other"

    Yes. More's the pity.

    As I've said a bunch of times, it's better to engage those who disagree with you, rather than just talking past (or at) them.

    Even if the differences you have make it impossible for you to convince or compromise, you at least get to understand the opposing position better and, hopefully, improve your own arguments and rhetorical skills.

    That said, sometimes discretion is the better part of valor.

    Sadly, with the release fo the Mueller report coming in ~15 minutes, we're likely to see quite a bit of people "talking past each other" in the near future.

    --
    No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr