SoylentNews is people
SoylentNews
This is a guest post by Hugh Handeyside, Senior Staff Attorney, ACLU National Security Project, Nathan Freed Wessler, Staff Attorney, ACLU Speech, Privacy, and Technology Project, and Esha Bhandari, Staff Attorney, ACLU Speech, Privacy, and Technology Project. It was originally posted on the ACLU Speak Freely blog.
In September 2017, we, along with the Electronic Frontier Foundation, sued the federal government for its warrantless and suspicionless searches of phones and laptops at airports and other U.S. ports of entry.
The government immediately tried to dismiss our case, arguing that the First and Fourth Amendments do not protect against such searches. But the court ruled that our clients — 10 U.S. citizens and one lawful permanent resident whose phones and laptops were searched while returning to the United States — could move forward with their claims.
Since then, U.S. Customs and Border Protection and U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement have had to turn over documents and evidence about why and how they conduct warrantless and suspicionless searches of electronic devices at the border. And their officials have had to sit down with us to explain — under oath — their policies and practices governing such warrantless searches.
What we learned is alarming, and we're now back in court with this new evidence asking the judge to skip trial altogether and rule for our clients.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Nerdfest on Thursday May 02 2019, @03:57PM (51 children)
I've said it many times before. CBP are Trump's Brownshirts, and ICE are his SS.
(Score: 4, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 02 2019, @04:06PM (12 children)
Trump is just the latest little Hitler. CBP, ICE and various other TLAs were just as evil and law-breaking under previous administrations. They just seem to get worse with each change in leadership.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by PinkyGigglebrain on Thursday May 02 2019, @04:27PM (11 children)
I was going to post the same point, then I noticed that your very accurate prior comment had been moded -1Troll.
Its sad how some people always try to bury a truth if it makes the leaders they espouse look bad. Trump, Obama, Bush Jr., Clinton and those before them. The fact is that individual rights have been continually and slowly eroded for a very long time by the US government.
"Beware those who would deny you Knowledge, For in their hearts they dream themselves your Master."
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Nerdfest on Thursday May 02 2019, @05:26PM (10 children)
The CIA and NSA have definitely been assholes in the past, but generally out of a "end justifies the means" sort of thing (but probably not). Right now though, they're not on Trump's side. He's loud and stupid, pretty much the antithesis of their organizations. Organizations will tend to support policies that support them. CPB, DHS, ICE ... xenophobia, nationalism, and racism run deep in them and the current President is pretty much the second coming to many of them.
Pro tip: Think of the mindset of the average TSA inspector or border guard.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 02 2019, @05:40PM (4 children)
You are polluting this thread with your nonsense. The NSA is "not on Trump's side"? The NSA has been investigating the illegal use of FISA courts throughout 2012-2016 to influence the 2016 elections. It was the head of the NSA who told Trump his offices were bugged.
https://www.npr.org/2016/11/22/502980006/reports-suggest-nsa-director-mike-rogers-is-on-his-way-out [npr.org]
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 02 2019, @06:41PM (3 children)
"The CIA and NSA have definitely been assholes in the past, but generally out of a "end justifies the means" sort of thing (but probably not). Right now though, they're not on Trump's side."
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 02 2019, @07:24PM
The NSA clearly is "on Trump's side", so what are you trying to say? There is clearly a divide in the deep state between the military (eg, NSA) and civilian (eg, CIA, FBI, DOJ) intelligence agencies. If you haven't noticed this you haven't been paying attention.
(Score: 2) by PinkyGigglebrain on Thursday May 02 2019, @07:28PM (1 child)
probably because he is attracting too much attention to himself, and by extension what the rest of the government has been doing.
Most TLAs prefer to work from the shadows.
"Beware those who would deny you Knowledge, For in their hearts they dream themselves your Master."
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 02 2019, @07:41PM
You are agreeing with and coming up with explanations for a false statement... https://www.theepochtimes.com/nsa-director-rogers-disclosed-fisa-abuse-days-after-carter-page-fisa-was-issued_2692033.html [theepochtimes.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 02 2019, @06:20PM (3 children)
Another Pro tip: the average TSA inspector is thinking "at least I have a job".
You're welcome.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by bob_super on Thursday May 02 2019, @07:22PM (2 children)
Yup. Most TSA agents are just in for the low-qualifications job. They get told to pat grannies for security theater, they do that. I don't know that any of them expects to catch anything else than distracted hunters... Don't get caught missing something obvious, enjoy the paycheck.
Border guards are apprehending law-breaking people on a daily basis. They deal with dangerous smugglers, and they deal with poor, often exhausted, people hoping for a better life. It's stressful, it can be deadly, it's rewarding when you catch bad guys, it's ambiguous when you catch desperate people, and it's horrible when you find dead people.
Let's not equate those two jobs. They are nothing alike, beyond the "protect you" propaganda.
(Score: 5, Informative) by urza9814 on Thursday May 02 2019, @08:31PM (1 child)
FTFY. See page 20 for that particular citation...although the entire report might be worth a read:
https://www.amnestyusa.org/reports/usa-jailed-without-justice/ [amnestyusa.org]
And for those complaining about Trump...that particular incident comes from a 2008 hearing before the House of Representatives. ICE has been an atrocious law-defying travesty since the day it was created.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by deimtee on Thursday May 02 2019, @11:56PM
Don't forget civil forfeiture. If you have more than (n * Albedo) dollars in your pocket you are obviously buying drugs and they will take your money. Very profitable.
If you cough while drinking cheap red wine it really cleans out your sinuses.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by edIII on Friday May 03 2019, @07:58PM
Ummm, you may want to back off the TSA just a little. Having life-long friends in the TSA I can tell you the average mindset is that they don't really give a shit. You think they're happy about cupping my balls? No. They're not interested in violating people's privacy, but just doing the damn job to get their slave wage.
Maybe higher up in the TSA you have an anti-privacy mindset, but the average TSA worker in the terminals is just trying to get through the shift without an incident that spreads across viral media.
TSA isn't nearly the same as ICE and BP. For instance, my buddy isn't armed, nor does he have the authority to detain anyone, or shove his hand up their butts. Anytime there is a problem, somebody from local police is on site to take over. It's not the TSA rooting in your colon, but a local cop.
Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Thursday May 02 2019, @04:07PM
Yeah, the courts can say what they want. We have given the government carte blanche to do whatever it wants, in secret and everything. I would expect better out of people who claim to be so much more "advanced" than everybody else.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Thursday May 02 2019, @04:15PM (19 children)
ICE was Bush's SS, 'member? And then they were Obama's SS. True, they have been passed on to Trump, but let us remember who created Homeland Security. An entire congress full of cowering wimps created them, and a number of congresses since then have been more than happy to keep HS around. That includes both R congresses, and D congresses.
Customs and Border Patrol? Ehhhh - I've always had problems with Customs. I'd love to see them put in their place. Border Patrol? Well, congress forced them to sleep with the dogs, so now they have fleas. We could still clean them up, treat them for parasites, give them some vitamins and minerals, give them a little dental work, and turn them loose on the invaders from the southern climes. I respect border patrol, just as I respect all our brothers and sisters from the armed services. They have a thankless, impossible mission, and they are hogtied by those very same congress critters who betray the United States on a daily basis. Congress critters like Pelosi, for instance.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by DannyB on Thursday May 02 2019, @04:34PM (18 children)
Local police also have a thankless, and sometimes impossible mission. (BTW, a real "thanks" to honest police officers!)
But (some) local police ${officers | departments} create their own problems which paint the others with the same brush.
We should be able to defend our borders and uphold our immigration laws. But we should not have to treat human beings like animals to do so. We shouldn't have to break families apart with no documentation to ever reunite them. We shouldn't have to put people in cages for merely approaching the border. We shouldn't mistreat them for merely trying to apply for asylum -- whether or not asylum is granted. How we treat these people, and how our government, and specifically officials in government treat them, reflects upon all of us. We should be better than this, and still be able to control our borders and enforce our laws.
Maybe it would be more cost effective to have policies that in some ways help our neighboring countries? Despite their problems being their own; such that fewer people try to flood into our country? It might simply be a better economic way to use resources? Despite the hatred and fear many people have of non-white non-rich people.
The lower I set my standards the more accomplishments I have.
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Runaway1956 on Thursday May 02 2019, @05:25PM (10 children)
Well, those "families" you speak of? A large number of those "kids" are adults themselves. Gang members and such. The real kids? Some are just dragged along by those gang members, like so much baggage, for the photo ops. This is one of those things where almost everyone is dirty. It really, really sucks for those who aren't dirty, but there you have it. Those "families" are mostly a figment of the media's imagination, presented to you in living color, with a false narrative.
When you've got a George Soros recruiting invaders, offering more money than these people have seen in ten years, just to walk to the US border and create a scene, you're going to have a lot of takers.
Always, follow the money. You know it takes a half ton of money to organize one of those caravans, don't you? Food, water, fuel, reporters - no army moves without logistics. Those caravans are carefully orchestrated and choreographed to tug at your heart strings. I won't insult you, DannyB, by calling you naive. But, you do have a small problem of credulity. It is similar to naivete, but there are subtle differences between the two.
Call me cynical, if you like. But, any time you have two (or more) sides in conflict, you can safely bet that there ain't no good guys. The few good guys in those caravans have been dragged along to be used by the media.
Typical caravan of 1000 people has a few dozen women, mostly of child bearing age, and a few dozen children, and all the rest are those "military age males". Gotta bring some pretty women and children for those photo ops, or the target of the invasion might get suspicious, you know?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 02 2019, @05:35PM (1 child)
As I posted in the another thread, illegal immigrants basically forced my brother off his fruit farm near san diego. It is not just immigrants either, just normal "travelers":
https://kfiam640.iheart.com/content/2019-04-29-sex-pistols-johnny-rotten-complains-about-homeless-anarchy-in-his-city/ [iheart.com]
The people supporting this stuff think they are safe and these people are not just going to eventually start taking their shit. They are very wrong.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 03 2019, @06:03PM
that's what AKs and ARs are for. if some stupid fucks come on my property they will have limited time to comply with my orders or will be executed and burned. the animals will eat the bones. i have no sympathy for stray humans.
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Thursday May 02 2019, @05:46PM
The things you point out, I would love to see those get more media coverage.
It has become a problem to know what to believe. Things can sound unbelievable even if true.
We live in a world where disinformation has undermined trust. Craziness from the current administration greatly widens the divide and the trust.
There may be no good guys, but other than in small forums, neither side trusts the other.
The lower I set my standards the more accomplishments I have.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 02 2019, @06:29PM (5 children)
[Citation needed]
In fact, at least a few citations are needed. And I will warn you ahead of time, Breitbart and Alex Jones are not going to do it for me. Just sayin'.
(Score: 3, Touché) by Runaway1956 on Thursday May 02 2019, @07:02PM (4 children)
So, we have an impasse. You won't accept evidence that doesn't come from MSM - and I know that MSM is lying to you. Have you ever thought of coming to the border, to check things out for yourself?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 02 2019, @07:27PM
What would be the point, to generate anecdotes? That is pseudoscience.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 02 2019, @08:19PM (2 children)
!(Breitbart|Alex Jones)=MSM?
lol
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Nerdfest on Friday May 03 2019, @07:27PM (1 child)
I really think more Americans should read their news from sources outside their country. Try the BBC, Canada's CBC, Global News, or National Post, he latter of which leans pretty right wing as far as Canadian sources go. Pick another country. It doesn't really matter which, just please stop fucking listening to Fox News.
(Score: 3, Informative) by FatPhil on Sunday May 05 2019, @10:32AM
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 3, Insightful) by edIII on Friday May 03 2019, @08:07PM
Dude, that is dumbass conspiracy talking points straight out Tucker/Hannity's diseases pie holes.
Where's the fucking facts here? I saw the photos. A LOT of women and children. You are correct that they are fleeing gang violence. However, there just may be a difference between a young El Salvadorean male forced to join a gang trying to escape it with his family, versus a MS13 staff transfer to the United States. According to you, every child is being dragged, on the orders of George Soros, by a violent gang member.... right into the hands of people that are going to abuse them? Where's the exit plan? The end game? Is is really violent criminals walking a 1000 miles into the hands of racist law enforcement that will immediately put them in cages?
It's just so much bullshit to rile up racism in people, like you for instance.
Come on man, use your brain. You're also military, so you should damn well know a couple thousand hungry desperate people don't make an invasion force. Especially, when they're trying to "invade" a well defended country with 350 million people. Everytime you guys say invasion, it makes you look like dumb racist assholes.
Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Thursday May 02 2019, @07:35PM (2 children)
I can actually rationalize this from the perspective of an admin-demon.... see, if they're detained illegals, they're barely human, and certainly we don't want to give them any latitude to be able to manipulate us by telling us stories that we have no way of verifying. So, beyond mom actually going into labor while in custody, we can't really know who is whose son, daughter, wife, etc. - even age can be wildly distorted, certainly determining 17 vs 19 years old is virtually impossible in a detention setting.
From there, it all follows: people are just individuals, with a probable country of origin and a processing queue. If they didn't want their family to be broken up they should have applied for admission/asylum through the proper channels, and preferably flown in on a jet to an international airport.
/s
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 4, Informative) by urza9814 on Thursday May 02 2019, @08:37PM (1 child)
Even your sarcastic absurdity is insufficiently absurd to capture the true horrors of ICE.
What you don't often hear about is that sometimes these "detailed illegals" are native-born US citizens who never even stepped foot outside of our country. Doesn't matter that they're not immigrants, doesn't matter that there's no evidence of a crime, ICE will still lock 'em up for months until they can afford -- based on prison wages of $1/day -- to purchase the evidence of their own innocence back from the government!
(see page 20 and/or citation 88: https://www.amnestyusa.org/reports/usa-jailed-without-justice/) [amnestyusa.org]
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Thursday May 02 2019, @08:48PM
That's law enforcement all over: the power of arrest. They're not judging you, they're not executing sentence, but they can arrest, transport and hold you for 48 hours with the flimsiest of excuses. In ICE situations they can detain for much longer - their only incentive to cut you loose being the cost of holding you, or, if you're fortunate enough to have friends of some means on the outside, to get those friends off their backs.
Other than our "big stick" military, ICE is my biggest embarrassment as a US citizen.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 4, Insightful) by PinkyGigglebrain on Thursday May 02 2019, @07:59PM (3 children)
"The greatest Evil is when the Good do nothing."
You can be "honest" but still evil. How many "honest" cops look the other way when a fellow officer pockets the wad of cash he just "confiscated" from a drug dealer he just searched? ("Hey, he has a son in college so he can put that money to a better use")
Or what about the "honest cop" that knows his fellow officer will go out and "arrest" some prostitute so he can give her the choice: blow job or jail?
Just look at how cops will close ranks and defend a fellow officer when they shot some fleeing suspect in the back, on video. I remember one case where the officers own bodycam recorded two officers discussing how to justify shooting a guy and getting their stories straight, and THEN calling for an ambulance and helping the guy who was bleeding to death at their feet.
So, belive what you want. In my book there are no "honest cops" currently on any police force. The really honest and good officers, the ones who actually believe in their oath to "Serve and Protect" get weeded out the force quickly. Report a fellow officer for something and suddenly that backup you called for gets delayed in route, or worse.
"Beware those who would deny you Knowledge, For in their hearts they dream themselves your Master."
(Score: 2) by urza9814 on Thursday May 02 2019, @08:42PM (1 child)
Ugh. Yup.
I keep seeing the "thin blue line" crap all over the place lately...and as far as I'm concerned, supporting that concept is essentially treason by itself. It's supposed to be "We, the people..." not "We, the duly appointed government officials". By promoting that artificial distinction they are undermining the very principles upon which our nation was founded. They are aiding the enemies of our system of government. Might as well be going around saying we ought to rejoin England because the revolution was never legally sanctioned. Goddamn redcoat bastards....
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 03 2019, @01:40AM
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1512 [cornell.edu]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 03 2019, @06:09PM
"honest" cops enforce the unconstitutional drug war and other laws and tactics every day. they look for any un-american state socialist law to kidnap, assault or kill you for. window stickers, precrime traffic laws, forced insurance, unlicensed home remedies, homemade dairy products, what ever the fuck some enemy piece of shit lawmaker parasite has passed with the tacit approve of all the bleating sheople.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 02 2019, @04:18PM (8 children)
Anything goes in a country where the attorney general is in contempt of the court... the lunatics are truly running the asylum.
Brace for the Enabling Act of 2019...
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Thursday May 02 2019, @04:21PM (5 children)
Can you please elaborate on this Enabling Act, even while I am bracing for it?
(I was bracing for the executive branch to dissolve the legislative and judicial branches by executive order and use the military to keep them out of their offices and buildings. It would streamline government and make things more efficient.)
The lower I set my standards the more accomplishments I have.
(Score: 5, Informative) by PinkyGigglebrain on Thursday May 02 2019, @04:32PM (4 children)
Enabling Act of 1933 [wikipedia.org]
"Beware those who would deny you Knowledge, For in their hearts they dream themselves your Master."
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Thursday May 02 2019, @04:37PM (3 children)
Wow. So it sounds like I was already waiting for the Enabling Act without realizing it. Thank you!
The lower I set my standards the more accomplishments I have.
(Score: 2, Informative) by fustakrakich on Thursday May 02 2019, @04:58PM
Wait no more! We now join your program... already in progress [justice.gov]... Remember this is only the pilot episode, but will probably run as long as General Hospital..
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 02 2019, @05:30PM (1 child)
It won't come until after the hyperinflation of the USD, which is all but baked in at this point. The only other way is a debt jubilee and new world reserve currency. But most "assets" now correspond to someone else's debt, so that would mean a lot of people have a lot less wealth than they think.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 02 2019, @05:37PM
Just the other day the treasury department released a chart showing that all new US debt will be used to pay interest on the old debt by 2024. The ponzi is accelerating to its inevitable conclusion.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by slinches on Thursday May 02 2019, @07:44PM (1 child)
Of course your political opponents and anyone who would dare defend them (regardless of the facts) are Nazis, they must be. They think differently than you do, which justifies all out political warfare including the abuse of the legal process for political attacks. Then when they try to defend themselves, you can claim obstruction and arrest/impeach them on those grounds. There's no way you could possibly be in the wrong on anything, so any and all means to reach your ends are justified.
If you don't see how that line of thinking is beyond problematic, then you are closer to being a Nazi than anyone.
(Score: 2) by edIII on Friday May 03 2019, @08:16PM
Ohhh, you mean... like a Nazi?
Yeah, we're all wrong in our treatment of the Nazi's. Let's give honest debate to whether or not genocide are good things, whether white is truly supreme, and just how dirty (quantifiably of course) does the average immigrant make America?
Likewise, it isn't hate filled racist propaganda completely divested from facts, but legitimate viewpoints being suppressed.
LOL.
Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by DannyB on Thursday May 02 2019, @04:18PM (6 children)
As much as I despise Trump, if you had left him out of it, I might have considered your post insightful.
CBP and ICE are brownshirts and SS. Police work is easy in a police state. And let's not forget how the NSA protects us from our privacy.
But this began prior to Trump (may he be blessed with Big Macs and Filet O' Fish forever and ever).
Let's not forget the PATRIOT act and when that began.
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -- Benjamin Franklin [techcrunch.com]
Or to quote someone more famous and influential:
"Meesa thinks uh weesa should give the chancellor emergency powers!" -- Jar Jar Binks
The lower I set my standards the more accomplishments I have.
(Score: 2) by Nerdfest on Thursday May 02 2019, @05:18PM (5 children)
The problem is now that they're following *him* rather than doing their jobs or the following the constitution, and probably continue to do so when things get ... worse. I don't think the same would apply under Obama, or even Bush. Organizationally, they're thugs. The US better hope the military continues to respect the rule of law.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 02 2019, @05:22PM
The best thing about Trump is he gets idiots to actually pay attention to what the government has been up to all these years. The reason you are more scared now than before is total BS, but at least you are coming to realize you should be scared.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Nerdfest on Thursday May 02 2019, @05:29PM
I should probably throw this [cnn.com] up here as well.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by fyngyrz on Thursday May 02 2019, @07:28PM
FTFY.
FTFY too.
You sure got that one right, though. 😊
Are you thinking of violations of Posse Commitatus? Congress and the executive have been experimentally meddling [wikipedia.org] with that on and off since 9/11. Or are you just thinking the military will go mad, or what?
--
When I dunk my cookies, I think of you.
I hold them under until the bubbles stop.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by urza9814 on Thursday May 02 2019, @08:45PM (1 child)
It was under Bush that ICE was abducting US citizens, throwing them in prison with ZERO evidence against them, and forcing them to labor at $1/day until they could purchase a copy of their own birth certificate to prove their innocence. You call that doing their jobs and following the Constitution? Pretty sure there's something about a presumption of innocence in that particular document...
https://www.amnestyusa.org/reports/usa-jailed-without-justice/ [amnestyusa.org] (page twenty, citation number 88)
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Friday May 03 2019, @02:12PM
Let's also not forget Gitmo. A permanent vacation getaway spot.
The lower I set my standards the more accomplishments I have.
(Score: 5, Informative) by ilPapa on Thursday May 02 2019, @08:48PM
ICE is actually the deepest of the Deep State. They can imprison you without probable cause or due process and there is no court in the land that has jurisdiction over them. They are a pure expression of authoritarianism.
You are still welcome on my lawn.