Stories
Slash Boxes
Comments

SoylentNews is people

posted by Fnord666 on Friday May 10 2019, @12:02PM   Printer-friendly
from the unsurprising dept.

From ieee

Female IEEE members say they face significant discrimination in the workplace, including demeaning comments, inappropriate job-interview questions, and exclusion from networking events and important business meetings.

Those were among the most common negative experiences reported by more than 4,500 members—associate member grade and above—from around the world who answered a survey IEEE conducted in 2017. The results were released last year.

Almost half of those surveyed worked in academia, and about 30 percent were from private industry. The rest worked for governmental or nonprofit institutions, or were graduate students or self-employed. The majority of respondents (65 percent) lived outside the United States.


Original Submission

 
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.
Display Options Threshold/Breakthrough Mark All as Read Mark All as Unread
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
  • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 10 2019, @05:06PM (9 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 10 2019, @05:06PM (#841922)

    First of all, I don't assume that "being an asshole" is equally likely among men and women -- men are statistically more disagreeable than women on average.

    I'm not necessarily saying I disagree with you, but I would like a citation for this. After all, if you are going to claim this is a statistical fact then you should have some statistical data to back it up.

    Starting Score:    0  points
    Moderation   +2  
       Insightful=2, Total=2
    Extra 'Insightful' Modifier   0  

    Total Score:   2  
  • (Score: 3, Informative) by JNCF on Friday May 10 2019, @05:28PM (8 children)

    by JNCF (4317) on Friday May 10 2019, @05:28PM (#841937) Journal

    These sorts of requests are reasonable when a claim is difficult to search for, but this one isn't. Here's the second* Google result for "men are more disagreeable than women" (no quotes): https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3149680/ [nih.gov]

    Relevant section of linked article:

    Agreeableness
    Agreeableness comprises traits relating to altruism, such as empathy and kindness. Agreeableness involves the tendency toward cooperation, maintenance of social harmony, and consideration of the concerns of others (as opposed to exploitation or victimization of others). Women consistently score higher than men on Agreeableness and related measures, such as tender-mindedness (Feingold, 1994; Costa et al., 2001).

    You can find full citations at the bottom of the article. This is a widely accepted claim in psychology.

    *The first Google result is a pop-sci news article that also backs up my claim.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 10 2019, @05:42PM (7 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 10 2019, @05:42PM (#841942)

      These sorts of requests are reasonable when a claim is difficult to search for, but this one isn't

      1. The burden of proof lies on the one making the claim.
      2. When the reported claim is easy to find, then it is trivial to add it. When the reported claim is difficult to find, then it is required.

      I'll grant that these can be thrown out if the questions are disengenous or if someone is just trying to control the debate by "just asking questions" repeatedly, but that was not my impression in this case.

      • (Score: 2) by JNCF on Friday May 10 2019, @05:50PM (5 children)

        by JNCF (4317) on Friday May 10 2019, @05:50PM (#841950) Journal

        If I claim the sky is blue, you would be clever to look up before asking for a citation. If I claim that the sky is blue because of Rayleigh scattering, you would be clever to look it up before asking for a citation. You're already on the internet, learn to Google.

        • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 10 2019, @06:13PM (4 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 10 2019, @06:13PM (#841966)

          The claims "men are statistically more disagreeable than women on average" and "the sky is blue" are not even close to being on the same level. Someone asking for a citation for "the sky is blue" is making a joke or being disingenuous.

          You're already on the internet

          My mistake. I forgot that the internet is absolutely full of honest, objective people that only make factual claims that are not the product of motivated reasoning. I've certainly never run into anyone using a "motte and bailey" or any other forms of fallacious argument styles./sarcasm

          https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Motte_and_bailey [rationalwiki.org]
          https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Logical_fallacy#Argumentative [rationalwiki.org]

          • (Score: 2) by JNCF on Friday May 10 2019, @06:31PM (3 children)

            by JNCF (4317) on Friday May 10 2019, @06:31PM (#841974) Journal

            It's not that the internet is full of honest people, it's that you have a crazy amount of information (and an AI to sort it for you) sitting at your fingertips. I made a statement that included all the relevant keywords. This part isn't necessary, but the context even that made it clear that the claim was one I believed to be easily citable as it was contrasted by a claim that I clearly stated I wasn't aware of any good sources for. I don't think the original AC was trying to derail the conversation, I just think they were silly to ask for a citation rather than making a good faith attempt to find it themselves. I ask for citations from people on occasion, but not before searching for the information myself if it seems like something that could be easily found.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 10 2019, @07:00PM (2 children)

              by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 10 2019, @07:00PM (#841995)

              I ask for citations before debating points because I've wasted far too much time dealing with people who don't have a source, "can't remember the source", say "just google it", only attack my sources without providing any of their own, etc.

              I also think having an unwritten rule or expectation of providing sources for your claims would raise the level of discussion. This site could certainly use some more > +3 informative posts compared to the insightful and interesting mods that seem to get thrown around as an "I agree" mod.

              • (Score: 2) by JNCF on Friday May 10 2019, @07:18PM (1 child)

                by JNCF (4317) on Friday May 10 2019, @07:18PM (#842011) Journal

                I'm assuming you're the original AC, and not the second one. I honestly considered saying "just google it," or giving you a lmgtfy link, but decided to include a link to a valid citation because I felt it would make it more clear that my point about learning to search for information wasn't simply an attempt to evade providing one. I don't think providing citations for all claims is reasonable, there are just too many claims we make about reality in passing that are easy to verify to a reasonable level of certainty but cumbersome to include citations for. If I feel like a given piece of information is hard to find I try to include a source for it (or, if I can't remember one and I know that from prior experience, own up to my sketchy memory and the probabilistic doubts it should raise up front when making the initial claim). The line between "easy to find" and "hard to find" is a blurry one, as most (all?) lines are, but I try to walk it and I think it's reasonable to expect people to search for a well-phrased claim before asking for a citation.

                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 10 2019, @11:22PM

                  by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 10 2019, @11:22PM (#842131)

                  Honorable intent but DFTT!

                  You should have stopped once they questioned your anecdote. You gotta live under a rock not to know that misogyny in tech is a real problem.

      • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 10 2019, @06:20PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 10 2019, @06:20PM (#841970)

        I'll grant that these can be thrown out if the questions are disengenous or if someone is just trying to control the debate by "just asking questions" repeatedly, but that was not my impression in this case.

        The reason why I asked for a citation was that the claim had all the look and feel of someone talking out of their ass, something which many have the habit of doing here on SN. Well, in this case I learned something. Thanks for the citation, JNCF!