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posted by janrinok on Thursday May 23 2019, @02:39PM   Printer-friendly
from the urban-rural-divide dept.

Swiss voters on Sunday approved a measure to tighten the Alpine nation's gun laws, bringing the country in line with many of its European partners despite the objections of local gun owners, Swiss media reported, citing official results.

Switzerland's public broadcaster said more than 63% of voters nationwide agreed to align with European Union firearms rules adopted two years ago after deadly attacks in France, Belgium, Germany and Britain.

The vote Sunday was part of Switzerland's regular referendums that give citizens a direct say in policymaking. It had stoked passions in a country with long, proud traditions of gun ownership and sport and target shooting. Switzerland, unlike many other European nations, allows veterans of its obligatory military service for men to take home their service weapons after tours of duty.

The Swiss proposal, among other things, requires regular training on the use of firearms, special waivers to own some semi-automatic weapons and serial number tracking system for key parts of some guns. Gun owners would have to register any weapons not already registered within three years, and keep a registry of their gun collections.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2019/05/19/tighter-gun-laws-appear-pass-switzerland-despite-opposition/3731629002/


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  • (Score: 4, Insightful) by NewNic on Thursday May 23 2019, @05:10PM (18 children)

    by NewNic (6420) on Thursday May 23 2019, @05:10PM (#846709) Journal

    The issue is the Schengen area. Switzerland wants to remain part of it, and the the EU wants Schengen countries to adopt EU-style gun regulations.

    --
    lib·er·tar·i·an·ism ˌlibərˈterēənizəm/ noun: Magical thinking that useful idiots mistake for serious political theory
    Starting Score:    1  point
    Moderation   +2  
       Troll=1, Insightful=1, Informative=1, Underrated=1, Total=4
    Extra 'Insightful' Modifier   0  
    Karma-Bonus Modifier   +1  

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  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 23 2019, @05:41PM (14 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 23 2019, @05:41PM (#846722)

    There's a demographic problem with schengen, much like those living in cities telling those living in rural areas they can't own firearms. Good luck to the EU enforcing gun control in Eastern Europe.

    • (Score: 4, Interesting) by bob_super on Thursday May 23 2019, @07:10PM (13 children)

      by bob_super (1357) on Thursday May 23 2019, @07:10PM (#846745)

      You might want to look at the high ownership of hunting rifles in the EU. It seems that it would surprise you. I think it's about 20% firearm ownership, with the overwhelming being hunting rifles (the real kind, not the AR-15 kind).
      A far cry from the US's 120% firearm ownership (not sure what the handgun to rifle ratio is), but not exactly what most Americans picture.

      Rural EU people do have their guns. Like their non-SUV cars, they don't carry around twice as much gun as they really need.

      • (Score: 2) by PartTimeZombie on Thursday May 23 2019, @09:58PM (7 children)

        by PartTimeZombie (4827) on Thursday May 23 2019, @09:58PM (#846816)

        Rural EU people do have their guns. Like their non-SUV cars, they don't carry around twice as much gun as they really need.

        Just like where I live. No-one argues that farmers should give up their shotguns or .22 because they're a tool for vermin control, or hunting, which is often the same thing.

        We have decided however that no-one really needs an AR-15, because why?

        • (Score: 2) by bob_super on Thursday May 23 2019, @10:09PM (4 children)

          by bob_super (1357) on Thursday May 23 2019, @10:09PM (#846822)

          Flip the question : considering the proven risks of having such weapons indiscriminately disseminated, who actually needs one ?

          (Setting aside the sanity of the tiny minority who truly believes they will imminently take arms against the Evil People in D.C., rather then ask the Military to defend the constitution, as we all know and respect them to do)

          • (Score: 2) by PartTimeZombie on Thursday May 23 2019, @11:10PM (2 children)

            by PartTimeZombie (4827) on Thursday May 23 2019, @11:10PM (#846834)

            You're quite right of course, no-one actually needs a firearm, vermin control can be done just as easily with traps and poison, but if people want to go duck shooting (very popular in my country) then I have no problem with it, and neither do most people.

            The average duck hunter is more likely to hurt themselves in a road accident than a hunting one.

            Also ducks are pests and the numbers need to be controlled. See also: Deer, pigs.

            • (Score: 2) by bob_super on Thursday May 23 2019, @11:58PM (1 child)

              by bob_super (1357) on Thursday May 23 2019, @11:58PM (#846846)

              You specifically asked about the AR-15. That's the one I'm returning the question about the "need" for.
              Duck hunters don't use 5.56 rounds, usually.

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 24 2019, @12:53AM

                by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 24 2019, @12:53AM (#846855)

                Duck hunters don't use 5.56 rounds, usually.

                If you are using an assault rifle for duck hunting then you are doing it wrong.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 23 2019, @11:51PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 23 2019, @11:51PM (#846845)

            The military is under control of Trump, they will be the ones rounding you up and torturing you until you give names for more people to torture. Look at Pinochet for an exemplary scenario. And don't forget to look at who was supporting that guy either.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 24 2019, @07:26PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 24 2019, @07:26PM (#847302)

          Because why doesn't one need an AR-15? Because they possess the ready capacity to fire 20-30 shots without reloading which gives an attacker an advantage, where the typical shotgun or .22 does not.

          Because why does one need an AR-15? Aside from target shooting (AR's are very fun target rifles and actually work well at varmint hunting with the right loads), presumably because the only final check against having a standing army which can be used against a populace is to take up arms against it. U.S.S.R. Occupied Afghanistan pretty well showed the need to have advanced weaponry to stand up to a nation-state aggressor (witness the supply of the Mujahadeen by the U.S.) U.S Occupied Afghanistan likewise showed how much an armed populace can screw with an established authority. Wikipedia, for example, says about 20% of Afghanistan is still under Taliban control. I don't like that, but it does give an indication of what is possible when one has good equipment.

          That's entirely aside from their value in home defense, generally considered a go-to choice for rifle home defense in the U.S.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 24 2019, @08:51PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 24 2019, @08:51PM (#847352)

          in the US a free person has the right to defend oneself from the tyrannical government. "of current police and military use"! you're so brainwashed you think the government is working in your interest like a god or a parent. they are your master and you are a fucking groveling victim.

      • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 23 2019, @10:27PM (4 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 23 2019, @10:27PM (#846826)

        It is light, which matters if you have to carry it into the woods. It has little kick. It is easy to get spare parts and accessories for. It is cheap.

        The only failing is that some places consider it too weak for legal hunting. The deer might not die quickly. If that applies, you need the larger AR-10, which looks nearly the same. (the magazine is fatter) There is also a conversion kit for an AR-15 that upgrades to larger ammo, which oddly fits in the standard magazine.

        Those old wooden stock rifles are like manual typewriters. Reminder for the Americans: your first amendment rights do not limit you to manual typewriters.

        • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Arik on Friday May 24 2019, @01:13AM (3 children)

          by Arik (4543) on Friday May 24 2019, @01:13AM (#846865) Journal
          Citation please.

          I am unaware of any jurisdiction where a 5.56x45 is considered insufficient for deer.

          For elk, maybe.

          "Those old wooden stock rifles are like manual typewriters."

          Yes indeed. Uncomfortably heavy, but satisfyingly positive in application.

          A very apt comparison.

          "Reminder for the Americans: your first amendment rights do not limit you to manual typewriters."

          And yet another.
          --
          If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
          • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 24 2019, @02:12AM (2 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 24 2019, @02:12AM (#846892)

            See page 91, Modern Firearm Regulations. .24 (6mm) minimum caliber, centerfire only. For muzzleloaders, the minimum is .40 cal. See page 7 for the definition of big game (spoiler: includes deer).
            https://wdfw.wa.gov/sites/default/files/publications/02063/2019-2020%20Big%20Game%20Hunting%20Pamphlet.pdf [wa.gov]

            Now you are aware of at least one where the .223 or 5.56 cartridge used in the AR15 is considered too wimpy for deer.

            • (Score: 2) by Arik on Friday May 24 2019, @02:33AM (1 child)

              by Arik (4543) on Friday May 24 2019, @02:33AM (#846901) Journal
              "Now you are aware of at least one where the .223 or 5.56 cartridge used in the AR15 is considered too wimpy for deer."

              Indeed I am. Thank you, anonymous sir or madam, for a truly informative post.

              That said, I must point out that this is not a very sensible regulation, as it defines whether or not a weapon is adequate simply by the calibre. Not only is the 5.56 prohibited for deer hunting, so is the 22-250! The 6mm Remington is legal, but the 5.56 is not? Depending on the load there's a hair of difference between the two. And that old .30 carbine that's nowhere near as capable as the 5.56, yeah, that's legal too.

              I'm not trying to narc on the .30 carbine btw. It's fine. But so's the 5.56.

              What doesn't work is someone that thinks that a big powerful cartridge will compensate for lack of accuracy. That is all.
              --
              If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
              • (Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 24 2019, @03:03AM

                by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 24 2019, @03:03AM (#846919)

                Well, this is from WA state where even a Marlin Model 60 is now defined as a "semi-automatic assault weapon". Keep expectations low out here on the Pacific coast.

  • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 24 2019, @03:42PM (2 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 24 2019, @03:42PM (#847112)

    How is this a troll? It was the whole reason for the referendum in the first place?

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2019/05/17/gun-control-vote-switzerland-may-19-could-take-away-swiss-weapons/1186889001/ [usatoday.com]

    Although Switzerland is not a member of the European Union, it is part of the bloc’s Schengen agreement, which allows people from 26 European nations to enter any of the countries without passport control. This means the Swiss must comply with EU’s new firearm restrictions if they want to remain in the borderless zone.

    • (Score: 1, Flamebait) by NewNic on Friday May 24 2019, @05:07PM (1 child)

      by NewNic (6420) on Friday May 24 2019, @05:07PM (#847174) Journal

      How is this a troll? It was the whole reason for the referendum in the first place?

      Because the self-worth of some posters here depends on the EU being shown to be an authoritarian failure? Or perhaps they adhere to the magical thinking that is called libertarianism?

      Seriously, the Troll mod says more about the moderator than about the post.

      --
      lib·er·tar·i·an·ism ˌlibərˈterēənizəm/ noun: Magical thinking that useful idiots mistake for serious political theory
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 24 2019, @06:45PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 24 2019, @06:45PM (#847282)

        Seriously, the Troll mod says more about the moderator than about the post.

        --
        lib·er·tar·i·an·ism ˌlibərˈterēənizəm/ noun: Magical thinking that useful idiots mistake for serious political theory

        Shockingly, says the guy whose signature on every post is basically flamebait