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Honda e, the compact electric vehicle that’s coming to market in spring 2020, is bringing its side-view mirrors inside. The company confirmed Tuesday that its side-camera-mirror system, which was on the prototype version, will be a standard feature when the car enters production. The side-ca...
Source: https://techcrunch.com/2019/05/28/the-all-electric-honda-e-is-bringing-its-side-view-mirrors-inside/
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The All-Electric Honda e is Bringing its Side View Mirrors Inside
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The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
It's not reality that's important, but how you perceive things.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday May 29 2019, @12:51AM (39 children)
Yeah, I really don't get why you'd take something extremely simple, inexpensive, and effective and complicate the fuck out of it at great expense and zero improvement.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 29 2019, @12:58AM (1 child)
(Score: 4, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday May 29 2019, @01:57AM
Not necessarily. An electric motor powered vehicle is fundamentally less complex than an internal combustion engine one. What you do with it after that is another story entirely though.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 4, Informative) by bob_super on Wednesday May 29 2019, @12:59AM (10 children)
Have you looked at car mirrors recently ?
- mirror
- motor
- camera
- blinker
- blind spot light
- defroster
I'm probably forgetting something.
The point is a modern "mirror" is a >$800 assembly. Camera-on-a-stick is a lot cheaper BOM, and a lot less wind drag
(will it be a cheaper repair? LOL!)
(Score: 4, Funny) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday May 29 2019, @01:53AM (7 children)
Mine's just a piece of silvered glass in a plastic housing that you adjust by reaching out the window.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Wednesday May 29 2019, @06:12AM (6 children)
So is mine, but we are a shrinking minority.
Most cars on the road today have very expensive decorations on their side, ideally positioned for sudden destruction, yet seemingly useless to the person in the driver seat.
I want the camera solution to become ubiquitous, because SUV and pick-up mirrors are just at the right height to threaten me when I split lanes.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday May 29 2019, @11:45AM (5 children)
Right, but mine's going to stay just a piece of silvered glass in a plastic housing that you adjust by reaching out the window, even if I have to remove features that come from the factory. I don't want complex, secondary-but-necessary features designed in such a way that I can't easily repair or replace them. I swear, one of these days I'm going to end up just saying "fuck new cars entirely" and restore an old Jeep CJ or some such. Well, not so much restore as build a FrankenJeep that looks like the old ones when they rolled off the showroom floor but has a newer, more efficient engine and such without an onboard computer of any kind.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Wednesday May 29 2019, @04:20PM (4 children)
Gotta be an official "antique", or they will hound you with emission compliance.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday May 29 2019, @06:58PM (2 children)
Heh, nah. Not in TN they won't. There aren't any sorts of inspections required on vehicles here at all.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Thursday May 30 2019, @01:29AM (1 child)
While most vehicles on the roads are unmodified, and therefore do not justify a full inspection structure just for emissions, every time I see one of the rolling rustball deathtraps on the road, I wonder whether the European's mandatory safety inspections (brakes/tires/lights/...) wouldn't be a bad thing...
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday May 30 2019, @10:49AM
Being able to hand out tickets for not having one of the above is sufficient. Less costly to the population both in that most people don't have to worry about it and in that they don't need a bureaucracy created to administrate it. The states that have wisely gotten rid of it recognized this and changed the law.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by Pslytely Psycho on Thursday May 30 2019, @01:15AM
Soon not in WA state either. On January first, twenty-twenty, our emission stations all close and emission requirements disappear statewide. So he might this summer, but next year it's a car modders free-for-all here!
Alex Jones lawyer inspires new TV series: CSI Moron Division.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by epitaxial on Wednesday May 29 2019, @03:10AM
Even if all those items fail I still have a functional mirror.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 29 2019, @07:57AM
Ok, so you mean, a $50 assembly sold for >$800?
This is not 1995 anymore. Screens are dime a dozen and cameras are much cheaper and better solution than a mirror with housing.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by hemocyanin on Wednesday May 29 2019, @01:02AM (8 children)
I went into the article expecting to hate it, imagining some screen in the center of the dashboard, but after watching the video, I like it. They have the screens to the left and right just like mirrors are placed except inside the windows (no frost!). Having an electric car, I can also appreciate the drag issue, though they give no figures to ascertain just how much of a difference it makes. If it makes a big difference in drag, I want it. If not, while I like the implementation, I'm not going be trading cars to get it.
(Score: 5, Informative) by hemocyanin on Wednesday May 29 2019, @01:07AM (1 child)
Like a lazy fuck, I just watched the video. When I went back to RTFA:
That's worth it in my book -- an extra 3.8 miles on a 100 mile battery.
(Score: 2) by Rich on Wednesday May 29 2019, @09:24AM
Not quite. You have to consider friction (roughly constant with speed) vs. drag (roughly square with speed). Drag will be negligible in local traffic and about half of the total rolling resistance at highway speeds. Even 1% is nothing to frown at when fast speeds are half of the mix - but it has to be balanced against the likelihood and cost of the complex system breaking (1000 money are 1% of 100000 money). OTOH, you could just make the whole car a little lower.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 29 2019, @01:37AM (5 children)
If you try it, make sure to see what happens in really bright sunny conditions, facing in different directions. Many screens aren't bright enough to be visible when the sun is in the wrong place (try reading a laptop outdoors on a sunny day...)
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 29 2019, @04:21AM (1 child)
(Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Wednesday May 29 2019, @05:46PM
I'm like Picard in 'Chain of Command' in that scenario and I have normal mirrors!
(Score: 4, Insightful) by mhajicek on Wednesday May 29 2019, @06:51AM (1 child)
Better than a mirror reflecting the sun straight into my eyes when driving east at sunset.
The spacelike surfaces of time foliations can have a cusp at the surface of discontinuity. - P. Hajicek
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 29 2019, @11:55AM
> mirror reflecting the sun straight into my eyes
But it's easy to re-aim the mirror to get the sun out of your eyes temporarily, while still having it show at least something useful about what is behind you.
The camera can't be re-aimed, only options mentioned in tfl are normal and wide-angle. This may be the show stopper for anyone that drives at sun-up or sun-down?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 29 2019, @02:17PM
from tfa: "As lighting conditions change, the brightness levels on the interior displays adjust."
(Score: 2) by KilroySmith on Wednesday May 29 2019, @01:20AM (1 child)
>>> and zero improvement
Repeat after me: Coefficient of Drag, air resistance, and range - perhaps as much as a 3% gain in range. And better coverage than the standard side view mirror provides...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 29 2019, @12:23PM
In the early 1990s, a similar reduction in the exterior size of the mirrors (and similar air drag reduction) was invented and patented. It uses a prism system instead of a simple mirror, https://patents.google.com/patent/EP0578717A1/en [google.com]
Unfortunately, the inventor (who I knew slightly) died unexpectedly (middle aged) and there was no one left to plug the idea, he wasn't part of a larger company. Before he passed, he had managed to place his device in several high efficiency show cars and prototype cars.
Patent has expired by now, anyone here want to take on the high tech camera system with a passive and clever optical solution?
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 29 2019, @01:34AM (6 children)
Don't worry, the article I read (Motor Trend?) last week noted that this system isn't legal in USA, at least now now. So the camera-mirror system will only be available in other markets. Maybe Honda plan to lobby to change the rules to allow cameras?
Just watched the video, another difference is that the aim of the camera is fixed, no more mirror adjusting to compensate for different eye positions. Two choices, normal and wide angle displays. Pretty sure I'd go for wide all the time to really reduce the blind spot, I normally have the side mirrors set way out, so I can barely see the side of my car.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 29 2019, @02:13AM (2 children)
I wonder if it can see the rear wheel of the car with some infrared or visible lighting so I can park in the city 1" from the curb at night without risking $100 worth of damage to my $1000/corner wheels. Fuck rim guards and dickheads that park 2 feet from the curb in super skinny downtown streets.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 29 2019, @02:17AM
> $1000/corner wheels
Donks? How does your vehicle ride, compared to the original wheel/tire combination?
(Score: 2) by epitaxial on Wednesday May 29 2019, @03:50AM
Get yourself some nice curb feelers. https://live.staticflickr.com/6118/6318699450_506d2f52a1_b.jpg [staticflickr.com]
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 29 2019, @05:59AM (1 child)
I have mine far enough out so that I have to move my head a bit to see the side of my own car. I recall at one point that somebody saw a picture I snapped and asked me if I actually used my side-views. I think they were unaccustomed to that much adjustment. It's always made sense to me--I already know where my own car is. That little sliver of blindness is to small for even the tiniest motorcycle to get into, so it does no harm.
(Score: 1) by pTamok on Wednesday May 29 2019, @07:47PM
I set my mirrors the same. It makes sense to use the entire mirror, and not use part of the visual field to show a static image of the side of your vehicle. As you say, it pretty much eliminates blind spots. If I move my head slightly, of course I can reassure myself that the side of the vehicle is still there, but I rarely need that reassurance.
(Score: 2) by urza9814 on Thursday May 30 2019, @07:02PM
The position of your head doesn't matter, it's not a mirror so you'll see the same image on the screen no matter where you are in relation to it. There's nothing to compensate for anymore. So instead of giving you some fiddly calibration knob and expecting every single person to know how to properly calibrate the mirror to their own driving position, they can factory calibrate it to the optimal position and know that everyone will get the best view.
FWIW, I was taught by the PA DOT that if you can "barely" see the side of your car from your normal driving position that means your mirrors aren't out far enough. You should have to move your head over a bit to be able to see your own car. And that's reasonable enough -- if someone DID manage to squeeze into that tiny angle between the mirror and the side of your car, you'd feel an impact before you'd see it in the mirror anyway. The fact that you consider this to be "way out" when it's probably actually further in than recommended, means that most people you know aren't calibrating their mirrors anywhere close to correctly. And I can't say I've seen anything different. So if they can remove the need to self-calibrate that stuff then it's probably beneficial for all of us...
(Score: 3, Touché) by Whoever on Wednesday May 29 2019, @04:03AM (3 children)
Yeah, we should all be driving Model Ts. All that complexity in modern cars isn't needed.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday May 29 2019, @04:30AM (2 children)
A large part of it isn't. Go learn the difference between luxury and sufficiency then come back and rejoin the conversation.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Wednesday May 29 2019, @06:23AM (1 child)
Sufficiency ? Sufficiency ??? TMB is anti-American ! Burn the commie at the stake !
More seriously, the existence of luxury car brands (Lexus, Mercedes & co, not the exotics) is a testament to the silliness of human beings. When I drive the wife's Rav4 (7-seat), I can't quite understand why anyone would pay 2x the price for marginal comfort and power improvements. Look at the "luxury" features these days. It's all fluff and show-off features. Luxury used to mean comfort, and save your ass, as recently as the 90s, but the gap is essentially closed, so they add BS and morons buy it.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday May 29 2019, @11:50AM
Yeah, I was talking actual luxury though. Anything added entirely for comfort or showing off rather than functionality. You know, like air-conditioning and a radio.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by SomeGuy on Wednesday May 29 2019, @11:16AM (3 children)
It's new and fancy so consumertards love it.
It will also break after a few years and you will have to pay $$$ to have it fixed, so manufacturers love it. There are too many people still out there driving reliable cars that don't need more than an occasional oil change.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday May 29 2019, @11:53AM (2 children)
Toyota still offers that sort of longevity. Mine's pushing 270K miles at the moment and still runs like a champ except for the passenger-side door lock guts that recently went south and I haven't gotten around to fixing yet since I don't sit on that side.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 29 2019, @12:10PM (1 child)
> Toyota still offers that sort of longevity. Mine's pushing 270K miles
Somewhere along the way, Toyota lost their way. What year is yours? One explanation I've read is that, when Toyota was about to pass GM as the world's sales leader, they changed their management focus to sales...and let their former laser focus on quality drift.
I kept my 1992 Corolla wagon for 20 years until it finally rusted out (salted roads here) and needed structural work to pass the annual inspection, it was still running great. Have a 2003 Vibe (Matrix) that still has that great Toyota reliability (but I'd prefer the wagon that they still make, but don't sell in USA).
Last year I inherited a 2009 Matrix with only 35K miles and it's not the same. Yes, it's a little nicer all around than the 2003, but things go wrong. For example, the computer randomly turns on the check engine light, ABS light, traction control light, then turns them off again after a few trips. I've been logging the mileage for lights on/off but haven't really found a pattern yet. Letting the car sit for a few days usually causes the lights to come on... The one time I took it to the dealer to have diagnosed, the lights turned off on-route and no codes stored!
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday May 29 2019, @01:33PM
2k1. Yeah, I've heard they've been slipping a bit but with as far ahead in quality as they were it's not as bad as it could be.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.