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Anti-Vaxxers Defeated: NY Bans Exemptions as Doctors Vote to Step up Fight:
Anti-vaccine advocates received a blow in New York Thursday as state lawmakers banned non-medical exemptions based on religious beliefs—and there may be more blows coming.
Also on Thursday, the American Medical Association adopted a new policy to step up its fight against such non-medical exemptions. The AMA, the country's largest physicians' group and one of the largest spenders on lobbying, has always strongly support pediatric vaccination and opposed non-medical exemptions. But under the new policy changes, the association will now "actively advocate" for states to eliminate any laws that allow for non-medical exemptions.
"As evident from the measles outbreaks currently impacting communities in several states, when individuals are not immunized as a matter of personal preference or misinformation, they put themselves and others at risk of disease," AMA Board Member E. Scott Ferguson, M.D. said in a statement. "The AMA strongly supports efforts to eliminate non-medical exemptions from immunization, and we will continue to actively urge policymakers to do so."
The religious exemption ban in New York comes at a critical time. The state is at the forefront of a nationwide resurgence of measles, with active outbreaks that have sickened hundreds and splintered into other states.
"This administration has taken aggressive action to contain the measles outbreak, but given its scale, additional steps are needed to end this public health crisis," New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo said in a statement after signing the ban on religious exemptions. "While I understand and respect freedom of religion, our first job is to protect the public health, and by signing this measure into law, we will help prevent further transmissions and stop this outbreak right in its tracks."
Sudden outbreak of common sense?
(Score: 0, Offtopic) by JoeMerchant on Monday June 17 2019, @02:18AM (31 children)
Deaths in this resurgence/outbreak? 0.
In 2017, 38,739 people received an HIV diagnosis in the US. The annual number of new HIV diagnoses remained stable between 2012 and 2016. In 2016, there were 15,807 deaths among people with diagnosed HIV in the United States. These deaths may be due to any cause. That's 41%, and they're not all from old age.
In 2016, a total of 2,967 cases of acute hepatitis C were reported to CDC from 42 states. In 2016, 18,153 U.S. death certificates had HCV recorded as an underlying or contributing cause of death (7). However, this is a conservative estimate. Evidence derived from a cohort of patients with known HCV infection who received care at four large health care organizations in the United States found that only 19% of decedents had HCV infection listed on their death certificates. More than 70% of these decedents had evidence of moderate to severe underlying liver disease.
In 2016, the most recent data available, 528 deaths in the United States were attributed to TB.
It goes on - but we are all wound up about 0 deaths and a few hundred reported cases of measles.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 5, Informative) by NotSanguine on Monday June 17 2019, @02:47AM (24 children)
That's an apples to oranges comparison.
There is a known to be safe and effective vaccine for Measles. There is no vaccine for Hep C [mayoclinic.org] and, for a variety of reasons [cdc.gov] (perhaps we need to reevaluate this too), the TB vaccine is not widely used in the US, and there is no HIV vaccine either.
Instead, why don't we compare measles cases to smallpox and rubella.
Smallpox cases in the US [cdc.gov]: 0 since 1952. Cause: widespread vaccination
Rubella cases in the US [cdc.gov]: 0 since 2004. Cause: widespread vaccination.
Measles cases in the US [cdc.gov]: 1,022. Cause: dwindling herd immunity due to reduced vaccination levels.
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: -1, Troll) by realDonaldTrump on Monday June 17 2019, @03:16AM (10 children)
HIV -- otherwise known as AIDS -- is a disaster. And it really did a number on New York. There's a pill for HIV. For not getting HIV. And, for not passing it on. And by the way, I talked to Gilead Sciences. Who make that one. And I made a magnificent deal. So 200,000 people can get that pill FOR FREE. ZERO DOLLARS!! foxbusiness.com/healthcare/trump-strikes-big-hiv-drug-deal-to-knockout-virus [foxbusiness.com]
What has Andrew Cuomo done for the health of the people of New York? I'll tell you what. He put the blue, and gold tiles in the Queens Midtown Tunnel. Instead of the plain white tiles they wanted to put in. Thank you, Andrew!!
(Score: -1, Troll) by realDonaldTrump on Monday June 17 2019, @03:24AM (3 children)
(cont) Those Colored tiles cost $20 million or even $30 million. Lot of money because White wasn't good enough for Andrew.
Hepatitis C, there's no vaccine, that's so true. But, there are pills that cure it. 95% of the time, they cure it. It's not a sure thing but it's pretty good, right? And those pills cost about $100,000. Can you work out how many times that goes into $30 million? I'll work it out for you, it's 300 times. 300 people. And 95% would be cured, that's 285 people. Andrew doesn't care about health. He's just another corrupt Dem politician!!!!
(Score: 2) by Mykl on Monday June 17 2019, @03:57AM (2 children)
You should focus on your funny parodies of DT. These sound too much like something he'd actually post, and doesn't contain any of the satire/humor I look for in your earlier posts.
In other words, I like your old stuff better than your new stuff.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 17 2019, @04:15PM
not to mention (cont) is not what the real con don uses, just dot dot dot dot dot dot dot dot
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 17 2019, @09:14PM
Make realDonaldTrump Great Again?
(Score: 2) by HiThere on Monday June 17 2019, @04:22AM (5 children)
That is one post where you have stepped over the boarder into outright lying.
There is no "pill" to avoid or suppress HIV, unless you're talking about cyanide, or something similar. HIV is a virus that is wildly variable, and medicines that work on one variety are useless against some other. And it mutates so rapidly that if you have it, you probably have thousands of varieties, so a drug cocktail is the most common approach. Even then, the effect usually wears of as new varieties appear that can sidestep ALL of the drugs.
OTOH, there do seem to be approaches that suppress active forms. So with proper treatment continued over the years, and adjusted on an as needed basis, you'll probably die of something else first.
I may be overstating my case, as it's been years since I looked into the matter, but that's the way the situation was a few years ago, and I doubt that it's changed. Possibly the suppressor drugs have gotten more effective, but I'm rather sure I would have heard if there were an actual cure.
Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
(Score: 2, Informative) by NotSanguine on Monday June 17 2019, @04:58AM (4 children)
Just to clarify, it was unclear what trolling boy was talking about (it often is), but my point was int reply to JoeMerchant's [soylentnews.org] comparison of HIV *infection* (not treatment or cure) with measles infections.
As I pointed out, there is no *vaccine* against HIV. There are certainly treatments that can keep the virus at bay. Apparently, there are also treatments that have (in two cases) put patients into "sustained remission" [statnews.com].
I'm not an AIDS researcher or an epidemiologist, just a somewhat informed layperson, so YMMV.
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 2) by HiThere on Monday June 17 2019, @04:08PM (3 children)
Yeah, but two cases isn't very remarkable. There were at least two cases that went into remission without any treatment at all. (Of course, that was out of a much larger sample size, but...)
I'm also a bit skeptical about how long those "sustained remission" cases will remain so. IIUC what they are saying is not that they've cleared the virus, but rather that it's currently hiding. And in any case that's no "just a pill", so he's a fucking liar.
Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
(Score: 2) by NotSanguine on Monday June 17 2019, @04:42PM (2 children)
I was clarifying *my* statement, [soylentnews.org] which was that no *vaccine* for HIV exists.
As to the "sustained remission" cases, those are extreme outliers, and those folks have *not* been cured (cf. remission [wikipedia.org]).
I do know that there is a cocktail of drugs referred to as Anti-Retroviral Treatment (ART) [nih.gov]:
Why loose your venom on me? I didn't defend the post to which you replied.
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 2) by HiThere on Monday June 17 2019, @07:35PM (1 child)
It wasn't directed at you. Sorry if you read it that way. (Did I post under the wrong parent?)
Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
(Score: 2) by NotSanguine on Monday June 17 2019, @07:42PM
No worries. It's all good.
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 1, Flamebait) by Username on Monday June 17 2019, @07:53AM (4 children)
You're still making his point. Smallpox was deadly, so everyone got vaccinated against it. Measles and chickenpox, isnt deadly just annoying, so people decided no to vaccinate.
Let us continue down this slope. Having glasses is annoying. Should we jail parents who do not give their child contacts or corrective surgery? Children don't run around with cleft lips and exposed brains anymore. So why do they have to run around with glasses?
(Score: 5, Insightful) by NotSanguine on Monday June 17 2019, @09:34AM (3 children)
Measles and chicken pox aren't deadly *to most people*. However, they are quite deadly to some, and can cause serious complications in others.
As history tells us [cdc.gov]:
That improved over time, likely due to *isolating those with measles* while they were contagious. As such, by the 1950s,
I don't know about you, but 500 *deaths* plus nearly 50,000 hospitalizations and 1,000 with encephalitis (which can cause serious and permanent brain injury) [encephalitis.info] seems pretty dangerous to me.
Especially since
Since vaccination against measles began, it has prevented the deaths of tens of thousands, prevented brain injuries to double that number, and prevented the hospitalization of even more people, by a factor of 100, I'd say that has a great deal of value.
The Measles vaccine has prevented the death and suffering of millions of people. The loss off herd immunity risks bringing all that back.
Vaccinations stop *preventable* death and suffering. And it's not just those whose parents choose not to vaccinate their children. The vaccine isn't perfect, and some people remain vulnerable. Others, who have compromised immune systems or other health issues cannot be vaccinated. What's more, Measles is *highly* contagious.
Let's make it personal to you. Let's say that some maniac was running around your town beating the crap out of, say, 1 in every 40 people.
Most of those people were not badly hurt, but needed a week or so to recuperate before returning to their jobs, school and lives.
However, a small percentage of the beaten were hit in the head with a tire iron, causing permanent brain damage. And another group were so badly injured that they died.
Now let's say we *knew* that it was crazy Herb Jones who lives over on Maple Street who was doing all those beatings. What do you do?
The mayor calls a town meeting to discuss what's been going on, and ask everyone what he should do about it.
Would you take the same attitude as with measles? "Meh. It's not so bad. Herb doesn't really hurt anyone too badly. It's too much trouble. let's ignore it."
Measles is preventable, highly contagious, and can cause permanent injury and even death.
How is this even a discussion?
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 17 2019, @04:23PM (2 children)
Well, I gotta say I'm not a fan of forcing people to have injections. I am all for vaccinations, but mandated injections feels like a very creepy step towards authoritarianism. I guess as long as they allow people to get their own vaccinations and not use a government mandated doctor it isn't quite as bad.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by NotSanguine on Monday June 17 2019, @05:04PM
The new law doesn't *force* people to vaccinate their kids, all it does is get rid of so-called "religious exemptions."
And let me clarify a bit more. It has been the law in New York for at least 45 years (it was the law when I started school) that parents *must* provide either proof of vaccination or an accepted exemption when enrolling their child in school. If they do not, the child may not attend.
This isn't just elementary school either. It's the law for all New York schools. In fact, I almost didn't get to start college on time, as my vaccination certificate had been lost by my high school and I had to go back to my elementary school to get a copy for the college.
The change in the law just narrows the scope of the exemptions that are acceptable. No one is forcibly injecting anyone. The change is that only *medical* exemptions (for people who, for various reasons cannot be vaccinated) will be accepted when enrolling children in school.
This isn't new or especially controversial. And New York isn't the first state to invalidate religious exemptions either.
I'm sorry if the reality isn't the horrifying nightmare of evil, authoritarians in New York. forcing children to be injected at gunpoint, with god knows what, by nefarious "government" doctors that you thought it was.
Perhaps we can find some other nightmarish scenario for you to worry about instead?
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 18 2019, @04:22PM
I'm not a fan of *forcing* people to shit in a bowl filled with water. Freedom n that.
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Monday June 17 2019, @12:06PM (7 children)
Gotta nip this thing in the bud, before it gets outta hand!
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2) by NotSanguine on Monday June 17 2019, @12:32PM (6 children)
There. FTFM.
Yep. Before people start dying or getting brain damage. [soylentnews.org]
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Monday June 17 2019, @03:46PM (5 children)
This is political posturing, grandstanding for particular crowds, and shaping public behavior.
What this is NOT is addressing a real crisis with real potential for impactful positive outcome. It's yelling BOO! there's a bogeyman out there and I'm going to protect you - pay no attention to the literally thousands of bigger bogeymen that can be addressed more effectively and efficiently, this one allows me to strike a certain political posture that I think will resonate with my electorate and help me in the future.
Politicians pretending to be out in front of a problem, ignoring the much bigger problems that got out in front of them.
Democracy: We get the leadership we deserve.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2) by NotSanguine on Monday June 17 2019, @05:18PM (4 children)
There's nothing political about the truth.
Measles is highly contagious and can cause brain inflammation (potentially with permanent brain damage) and death.
Without the measles vaccine, thousands would die from it every year, and even more would end up with brain inflammation and other serious issues. How do I know this? Because that's exactly what happened before there was a measles vaccine.
Measles is preventable and should be in the dustbin of history like Smallpox. In fact, widespread vaccination *ended* measles in the United States in 2000. Now, thanks to a bunch of ill-informed, reckless people, measles is back. That it hasn't killed or maimed anyone yet is just dumb luck.
This is a public health issue that, unless dealt with, could cause needless suffering and death.
It's you who is doing the political posturing. And for what? So a bunch of folks that worship an imaginary sky daddy can be frightened into putting their kids and many others at risk? Shame on you!
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Monday June 17 2019, @06:08PM (1 child)
There's no truth worth hearing from a parrot.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 17 2019, @06:42PM
While you have your fingers in your ears, you might want to cover your eyes too.
Then no one will be able to see you either.
Have fun!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 18 2019, @06:07PM (1 child)
stfu, you stupid fucking cunt.
(Score: 2) by NotSanguine on Tuesday June 18 2019, @06:20PM
How sweet. Do you kiss your mother with that mouth?
And no. I won't STFU. Kisses, baby!
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 0, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 17 2019, @02:51AM
Put this in balance with impurifying all our precious bodily fluids, without the choice of the individual, and I can understand the outrage.
Denying women your life essence is the first step, though. Use it for some time before getting to prevail, God willing, in keeping the purity and essence of our natural fluids by the use of those 1400 megatons worth.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by bzipitidoo on Monday June 17 2019, @03:56AM (4 children)
THINK OF THE CHILDREN!
Seriously. For once, that statement is 100% spot on, instead of being a caricature of hysterically afraid helicopter parents. Many vaccinations are ineffective on the very young. A newborn will not develop lasting immunity. Also, can't vaccinate against everything all at once. Vaccinations should be spread out over a period of time. Otherwise they could be less effective. The best way to protect an infant from measles and other diseases is to make sure everyone around the baby is vaccinated.
And, you've made a common mistake, that of using body counts to measure harm. By that measure, a bus crash could be a worse disaster than a catastrophic hurricane. Costs a great deal to care for a sick child. Each one of these diseases lasts at least a week, and some can last a lot longer. Like, 10 weeks for whooping cough. Someone, usually a parent, should to stay close almost the entire time, and cut back on other work.
Any parent who's an anti-vaxxer should be given the choice of geting their kids vaccinated, or being exiled to a leper colony. The choice they should not have is to let their kids be transmitters of preventable diseases, mingling with the rest of us. If you're okay with disease carriers getting close to your infant children, why not also let sex offenders near?
(Score: 2) by HiThere on Monday June 17 2019, @04:27AM
IIUC, lepers (i.e. Hansen's disease) can be treated sufficiently that they are (essentially) totally not-communicable. https://www.webmd.com/skin-problems-and-treatments/guide/leprosy-symptoms-treatments-history#2-6 [webmd.com]
For that matter, even without treatment leprosy isn't very contagious. It's just that people with rotting body parts are unpleasant and scary to be around.
Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
(Score: 1, Offtopic) by JoeMerchant on Monday June 17 2019, @11:55AM (2 children)
As I recall, for measles, mumps and chicken pox, I was dumped at my grandparent's house while they went out to work (but granny would get home in the early afternoon and was off on Wednesdays, while my parents wouldn't get there until ~4:30) I survived, as did all of my classmates, their siblings, and everyone else within at least 3 degrees of separation - no lasting effects, though the mumps did run a long time.
"Helicopter nursing" now, are we? When needed, sure. When every kid in town gets the spots and none of them need more than some bedrest to get over it...?
Closest "preventable deaths" to my 1970s childhood were stories of polio and tetanus victims at least a generation before. Polio and tetanus are definitely worth the vaccination effort.
On the non-deadly side, my personal experience (one degree of separation, and less) of varicella infection among the immunized makes me think that the efficacy data is B.S. The annual influenza vaccine has published statistics that make it seem like a good idea, but again anecdotal observations make it look like more miss than hit.
At some point, people should clearly have a choice to opt out of science experiments which put their bodies at risk. As a society, we have a tendency to not draw those kinds of lines - so some people ignore all the science and take an extreme position where they really do put themselves at significantly elevated risks.
The science side of this debate doth protest too much, me thinks. Something to hide, they have. Would that they would be more forthright and trustworthy, they might better plea their case and serve their cause.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 17 2019, @07:58PM (1 child)
Are you familiar with the term Anecdotal Evidence?
Here, I'll link you to the definition just in case:
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/anecdotal%20evidence [merriam-webster.com]
Your personal experience does not invalidate the fact that people do die from the measles, they do get complications that have life long effects. Odds of encephalitis from measles is approximately 1 in 1000. Death, 1-2 in 1000. Odds of permanent harm from the measles vaccine? 0 in 1000
You have worse odds of being killed by a tornado (1 in 60,000), yet we teach tornado safety in schools and there is no dispute as to the harm they can do. So why do you argue against enforcing public safety from a more likely threat?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 18 2019, @04:27PM
But wait, I was getting into his life story. What happened next after you got measles and SURVIVED?! Hopefully there is a book I can purchase or better yet a series of movies.