Stories
Slash Boxes
Comments

SoylentNews is people

posted by martyb on Wednesday June 19 2019, @12:51AM   Printer-friendly
from the it's-my-data-no-matter-*where*-it-was-stored dept.

Submitted via IRC for SoyCow4463

ACLU: Police must get warrants to obtain personal data from cars

You might not think of your car as a treasure trove of personal data, but it frequently is -- performance data, phone contacts and location info may be sitting under the hood. And the American Civil Liberties Union wants to be sure police can't just take it. The organization is appearing as a friend of the court in Georgia's Supreme Court on June 19th to argue that personal data on cars is protected by the US Constitution's Fourth Amendment and thus requires a warrant. The appearance is tied to a case, Mobley vs. State, where police used a car's "black box" to level more serious charges.

After a deadly car crash, Georgia police downloaded data from the Event Data Recorder on Mobley's car to determine his speed before the crash, using that to level more severe accusations against him. Georgia has contended that this was legal under the Fourth Amendment's "vehicle exception" allowing searches for physical items, but the ACLU believes this doesn't count for digital data. It likened this to requiring a warrant for phone data -- just because the device holding the data is obtainable without a warrant doesn't mean the data is also up for grabs.


Original Submission

 
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.
Display Options Threshold/Breakthrough Mark All as Read Mark All as Unread
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
  • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 19 2019, @03:19AM (4 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 19 2019, @03:19AM (#857312)

    In at least some cases, the speed recorded in the car is from a sensor on the driveshaft (or in the transmission) and the calibration may not be very good. For example, if aftermarket tires are fitted that are a different size than original, very few (no one?) will bother to update the speedometer calibration.

    I certainly would not like to have black box data that used this uncalibrated speed taken by the cops without a warrant. It could be off by 10% or more (in either direction) and factory cal tends to read high so that drivers are going slower than the speedometer reads (tends to save the driver from getting speeding tickets).

    Starting Score:    0  points
    Moderation   +1  
       Interesting=1, Total=1
    Extra 'Interesting' Modifier   0  

    Total Score:   1  
  • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday June 19 2019, @01:54PM (3 children)

    by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday June 19 2019, @01:54PM (#857429) Journal

    One note on automotive speedometers. The law REQUIRES that speedometers either be accurate, or they err on the high side. No prosecutor, judge, or whoever, will accept an argument that your speedometer is inaccurate, on the low side. That's a federal DOT requirement.

    Manufacturers can't be bothered to ensure that the speedometer is exactly right. That is, they do NOT calibrate every vehicle coming off the assembly line. You car is off by 3 to 6%, UNLESS you have fitted slightly larger tires on your vehicle.

    So, if you're cruising along right on the speed limit, and you spot a cop, there is zero reason to sweat it. You're not actually doing the speed limit when your car reports that you are doing so.

    Discussion here, with answers of varying quality - https://www.quora.com/Why-do-all-car-speedometers-read-2MPH-faster-than-the-car-is-travelling [quora.com]

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 19 2019, @10:42PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 19 2019, @10:42PM (#857645)

      Further BS detected:

      Couldn't find the US reg for cars, but did find this for commercial vehicles, didn't you drive truck at some time?

      ยง393.82 Speedometer.

      Each bus, truck, and truck-tractor must be equipped with a speedometer indicating vehicle speed in miles per hour and/or kilometers per hour. The speedometer must be accurate to within plus or minus 8 km/hr (5 mph) at a speed of 80 km/hr (50 mph).

      [70 FR 48054, Aug. 15, 2005]

      Also found reference to a Euro reg that requires the speedometer to never read low, so you are correct on that continent.

      • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Thursday June 20 2019, @01:46PM

        by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Thursday June 20 2019, @01:46PM (#857915) Journal

        Did you do the math, and figure out the percentages there? That particular regulation allows for 10% error, greater than the error rate that I mentioned.

        I'm not digging for the law, regulation, or whatever. I've read it often enough in the past, to be sure that it's for real. Speedo must be accurate, or it must read low, but it must be within 3 to 6%.

    • (Score: 2) by bob_super on Wednesday June 19 2019, @10:47PM

      by bob_super (1357) on Wednesday June 19 2019, @10:47PM (#857646)

      > Manufacturers can't be bothered to ensure that the speedometer is exactly right. That is, they do NOT calibrate every vehicle
      > coming off the assembly line. You car is off by 3 to 6%, UNLESS you have fitted slightly larger tires on your vehicle.

      As we reach the end of the 2010s, your speed is pretty accurately calculated by the computer by design (even those without GPS), based on the assumption that you have slightly over-inflated new tires of the recommended size in your empty car. Oversized and highly overinflated tires could result in undereporting of the speed, but almost everyone drives with degraded slightly underinflated tires, half a tank of gas and extra sunglasses even in the dark, making the car report going faster than it is.
      Manufacturers can't calibrate for real usage, which is ok since that increases the error in the optimal direction.